If we are truly advocates, should we be limiting how much we purchase?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Providence, Apr 7, 2013.

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  1. DelMontiac

    DelMontiac Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2010 Oklahoma

    Advocates gonna advocate. Make more awesome beer for more awesome people! (Oh, that would look really good on a can.)
     
  2. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    Well, just to be clear, I didn't write the post to "call out dicks," I hope that's not how it's coming off. I just wanted to get the conversation going. Nevertheless, you bring up a very relevant personal story.
     
    SammyJaxxxx likes this.
  3. cartoonshop

    cartoonshop Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2011 Rhode Island

    can we stop with the advocacy?

    what would an advocate do?
    are you an advocate?
    spread the beer love.
    i

    CALM DOWN, its the name of the magazine, not some religious text that needs to be pondered and philosophized about.
    you're not helping poor people, endangered species , or special needs kids..... you're chubby guys with beards who like beer and talk about it.
     
  4. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    It is so hard not to drag politics into this to reply to your post. This may be limited to beer but your statement kind of sums up what is wrong with our country. Who are you to tell me how much of a beer I need? What else do I have too much of that I need to spread around to others that feel they are entitled to it?

    For the record I went to two different stores and struck out at a few others and managed just three bottles. But I refuse to tell someone what I think they should be allowed to buy.

    And as I said before, if people are breaking store rules to get around bottle limits to get more KBS that is one thing, and I agree that is wrong, but some guys here were offered cases and took them, and I can't blame them one bit. KBS is one of my favorite beers and had I got a case I would have drank/shared the whole damn thing.
     
  5. BradStokley

    BradStokley Disciple (347) Jan 19, 2013 Maryland
    Beer Trader

    There are only 2 things limiting how much beer I purchase. My wallet and my waistline.
     
    scubahood, BobZ and JxExM like this.
  6. DBijnagte

    DBijnagte Initiate (107) Dec 7, 2012 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    I feel like the real problem is that beer is not your typical market. It does not follow supply/demand principles. I'm by no means advocating 10$ bottles of KBS but in reality that's what should happen. In the KBS case as well as many other beers, price doesn't reflect the demand so there is no actual disincentive to buying out a store. Luckily stores set limits which helps but does not solve the problem.

    I am often angry and complain when my local liquor stores jack the price up to 35$ for a bottle of darkness. In reality that is what keeps it on the shelf for longer than an hour. It still sells out, just slower.

    A sense of entitlement can be an issue in the aftermath of a release but its just a trade off for people complaining about price.
     
    yemenmocha likes this.
  7. Celtics76

    Celtics76 Defender (644) Sep 5, 2011 Rhode Island

    Haha! I always laugh when I see someone's avatar..and it's a chubby guy with a beard.
     
  8. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    Actually I am helping low-income people on a daily basis. My career is devoted to helping the less fortunate, marginalized and oppressed. Helping these populations strengthens the community in a variety of ways. Since you're a Rhode Islander yourself, you are part of the community that I am helping to improve.

    Any more assumptions you want to make?
     
    SammyJaxxxx and ripps1 like this.
  9. szmnnl99

    szmnnl99 Crusader (710) Apr 3, 2006 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    The most surprising thing about this thread is how many BA's are from Rhode Island.
     
    stayclean and Providence like this.
  10. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    No kidding huh?
     
  11. Revenant

    Revenant Aspirant (280) Aug 8, 2012 Minnesota

    Fuck KBS, BCS, BCBS and LMNOPCS!!!! I come from the land of Surly :wink:
     
  12. joeebbs

    joeebbs Initiate (0) Apr 29, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I think more people here are Beer Aficionado's instead of Beer Advocates. Granted there aren't any threads on here titled "How did you Advocate today?' but for the most part a lot of the threads in the Beer Talk forum showcase less of "advocating" and more of a '"look what I have"/"can't believe I can't get"/"X is better than Y"

    When you get into the sub-forums and regional forums you get more Advocating in terms of helping other BAs out.

    In terms of the OP it is a little greedy to buy all the KBS for one's self but Beer Karma will come around and make everything even.
     
    creepinjeeper and drinker36 like this.
  13. Windycitycheesehead

    Windycitycheesehead Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2013 Illinois

    I believe you may have taken the "you're not helping poor people" message a bit personally. I'm pretty sure he wasn't referring to your career or the charitable activities you participate in. I think he just meant that we're talking about buying & drinking beer and that is (in most circumstances) not an activity where the peoples' well-being is at stake. Meaning...no one is going to die or go without dinner if a few people miss out on the Kentucky Breakfast Stout release in his/her local Liquor Mart.
     
  14. drinker36

    drinker36 Initiate (0) May 19, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I like this post. And then I "liked" it. Besides the regional and sub forums I think that anyone that takes the time to fill out an honest review of a beer, shop, bar, or restaurant is advocating. I'd also implore anyone that hasn't filled out a review to do so. As a general guideline I'd encourage you to spend as much time filling out said review as you do reading them.

    Finally, this seems like the appropriate thread to thank all of you for the beer knowledge and thought provoking conversation you provide to me. It wouldn't be right if I didn't thank the douche's and dicks for making me lol a few times too!

    Cheers! (Hopefully you clinked my glass with some KBS)
     
  15. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    This just gave me an idea for a thread.
     
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  16. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,271) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    This site was started at a time when advocating the consumption of fine beer meant something. It wasn't a philosophy meant to leave some beer on the shelf for others, it was a philosophy meant to clear the beer from the shelf so the craft brewers could sell enough to make a profit. It meant telling your friends how fine craft beer tasted, what a great treat they can share the enjoyment of experiencing, so that enough folks would find out and there would be a community of folks big enough to support the brewers brewing fine beer in this country.

    Those who try to define beer advocacy in light of today's craft beer reality are all free to do so, and paint the picture with any color they want to use. Personally, when I see a thread like this one it makes me queasy a little, as I see how the craft beer brewers manufacture this frenzy and raise their prices crazily, when once they worried if they could make their payments. I see that there are so many folks entering the "scene" now that the days of needing to advocate are over.

    Personally, I am gonna start disadvocating, and spreading the word that American craft beer is overpriced swill, maybe some of the folks who are in line in front of me will go to some other enjoyment, and I can once again get fine beer at reasonable price and off the shelf in front of the counter for more than fifteen minutes after a delivery.
     
  17. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    I'd have to respectfully disagree here, craft drinkers are still in the vast minority and just because KBS sells out in a couple hours doesn't mean there isn't work to be done to increase awareness about the industry in general.
     
    BobZ, JulianB and BrettHead like this.
  18. BeerLover99

    BeerLover99 Poo-Bah (1,607) Dec 13, 2008 Illinois

    I do not think it is about limiting what you buy, but if you share it.
     
  19. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,271) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    When a small brewer opens a brewery in the middle of nowhere, doesn't bottle, and self distributes, and within one year regrets the fact that he signed a four year lease, because he already needs a larger location, because where he is at he can only double his capacity, I am thinking we have arrived.

    We have 2000 craft breweries scheduled to be in existence in this country, and it is because the smart minds and money see that we have arrived.

    What did you get, 3 KBS this year? Next year good luck getting any, maybe then you will see that the days when we need to spread the word how good this beer is are over, everyone knows.
     
  20. BrettHead

    BrettHead Devotee (479) Sep 18, 2010 Nebraska

    ad·vo·cate

    /ˈadvəkit/
    Noun
    A person who publicly supports or recommends a particular cause or policy.


    Being pedantic, but being an advocate is pretty simple and has nothing to do with not buying beer that I want.
     
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  21. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    If we can keep this growth up and keep taking market share from the big boys I'll eat my words, I am just saying that holding 5-6% of an industry doesn't really seem like arriving to me. And yes, new breweries are always busy, people love new things, and if they make great beer they'll stay busy.
     
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  22. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    Point taken. Perhaps I read it the wrong way then. If that is true, then I am sorry that the poster (and potentially others) think that I am advocating that we leave behind a few KBS's because it's going to solve the world's problems. I know it's just beer and it's going to make little difference on how much the world changes, but this is a beer focused wbesite and is an appropriate forum to discuss such issues.
     
    Windycitycheesehead likes this.
  23. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    Seems legit.
     
  24. cartoonshop

    cartoonshop Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2011 Rhode Island

    fantastic. now how does this relate to beer advocacy?

    heady topper for tots?
    russian river salvation army?
     
    evilc likes this.
  25. BrettHead

    BrettHead Devotee (479) Sep 18, 2010 Nebraska

    Save the Ales!
     
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  26. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    Your previous post confused me. I thought you were saying, "You're not helping poor people, endangered species, etc." you meant in relation to my life outside of beer and thus, complaining about "doing right" by beer was nonsense because there were bigger issues in the world. Another BA gave me the heads up that you may have been saying those things in relation to my plea that we leave rare beer on the shelf for the next guy (in other words, leaving the beer doesn't solve any real problems, so why are we worrying about it?). I thought your tone was the former, not latter, and thus felt a need to defend myself. Perhaps I misunderstood, but such is life when communicating via message boards.
     
  27. dvmin98

    dvmin98 Poo-Bah (1,854) Nov 1, 2010 North Carolina
    Supporter Beer Trader

    I think most of the policing lately has been done by the stores that sell it. I know here in NC, the Total Wines limited everyone to one bottle. I was able to get more at another store because my friend is the beer guru there and can divvy out as he pleases. But those will be enjoyed with friends that couldn't get any themselves. Actually, Im giving one back to him cuz his dad loves the stuff.

    The thing that I don't like are the ones that get the extras to sell. If you get an extra and use it to give to a friend or as an extra, no worries. I had a guy in front of me get two bottles and he flat out told me one was for him and the other was for eBay to recoup what he paid for both and to make a few extra bucks. That in my view stinks.
     
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  28. dvmin98

    dvmin98 Poo-Bah (1,854) Nov 1, 2010 North Carolina
    Supporter Beer Trader

    I feel like Providence is Mayor Bloomberg (sp) in disguise. Maybe they also can limit KBS to 8 oz bottles, cuz 12 oz will make us go crazy and want more.
     
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  29. jaxon53

    jaxon53 Meyvn (1,132) Mar 1, 2006 Connecticut
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    I'm not saying we should limit anything at all! It's not up to me how much beer you can buy, and really I could care less, I'm saying we don't need to make pigs of ourselves. Use your best judgement! Instead of everybody having a little, a few have alot, also another problem with this country...
     
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  30. biercycle

    biercycle Initiate (0) Apr 8, 2012 Pennsylvania

    These are all fair arguments and, as you say, people are free to behave in the manner they see fit.

    That being said, I fully agree with your interpretation of advocacy and believe that the world would be a much better place if people took other's into consideration more often. It seems as if my generation (born in the 80s) was the last to ever be taught or hear of "the golden rule" and it has completely slipped from the current narcissism based culture we live in.

    So, I would advocate that real beer advocates would treat others as they wish to be treated. Do you want to go to your local bottle shop to find that some dude that has been driving all over half of your state to buy up every last bottle of X limited release beer and beat you to your favorite haunt to snag the last bottle? If not, and "some dude" describes you, then you may want to reflect on your behavior, how it impacts others, and how it affects the community you belong to.
     
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  31. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    I totally agree. This is all about the golden rule. When I leave bottles on the shelf I often am conscious of how that's what I would like the person ahead of me to do. However, I totally disagree with you that folks born in the 80's, myself included (born in '82) learned this lesson. Our generation is a bunch of entitled wads just like the younger folks.
     
  32. Vitacca

    Vitacca Disciple (345) Sep 15, 2010 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    I was born in '78. Can I open my one, and only, bottle of KBS now??
     
  33. Windycitycheesehead

    Windycitycheesehead Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2013 Illinois

    Here is another perspective. if my life is so damn good that the not getting my paws on a ridiculously expensive, limited release beer is considered a problem...then god bless my life!
     
  34. Windycitycheesehead

    Windycitycheesehead Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2013 Illinois

    Yes. by all means.
     
  35. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    Like * infinity!!
     
  36. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California


    All I am seeing is a bunch of crying from you man. Nothing more. You want to control the thoughts and actions of others to benefit YOU ( bottle left on the shelf available for YOU ). You are the one acting entitled.


    Does your head explode in an endless paradox when only 1 bottle is on the shelf?
     
  37. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    It's hard for me to take what you write seriously EvilC. You've been on my back since we disagreed on the "to support ab/inbev or to not support ab/inbev" discussions. You continuously try to spotlight something in my post that isn't actually there. I feel like offering this below response is a waste. Nevertheless, since I am a gluten for punishment, let me try:

    I could care less if the KBS is left on the shelf for me. I don't "whale hunt" ever. As mentioned in my original post, I went to my local bottle shop, they had KBS, and I bought it. I lucked out. I buy it if it's there, if it's not I don't. So I am not particulary interested in people leaving the beer so I can get it. I usually don't even want it as I can rarely afford it. But, I understand some people are very interested in these rare beers and I think they should get more of a chance to try it. Someone buying an overabundance of a rare beer limits that persons ability to even try it. That is what I am hoping to have a conversaiton about.

    Additionally, I have addressed the issue of what I would do if there was only one bottle on the shelf multiple times in this thread. Normally I don't expect another BA to have read everything I wrote in a thread but since you claimed "All I am seeing is a bunch of crying from you" it would lead me to believe you have read "all" I have written (unless....you were just saying making an assumption, but I am sure you weren't doing that). So let me clarify what I would do if there was one bottle on the shelf. I would buy it. No question. I am entitled to enjoy the beer as much as anyone else. If there are multiple, I take issue with clearing them out, which is different. We should all get to enjoy it. My question is should we limit our enjoyment slightly so that someone else can enjoy it too?

    It's not crying, it's called having a discussion.
     
    creepinjeeper likes this.
  38. otispdriftwood

    otispdriftwood Defender (637) Dec 9, 2011 Colorado
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    "If we are truly advocates, should we be limiting how much we purchase?"

    Why? So some non-truly advocates can buy it all instead?
     
    BrettHead and evilc like this.
  39. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Poo-Bah (2,459) Jun 18, 2002 Arizona

    I thoroughly support your self-described disadvocating. And you're completely right about the historical perspective being lost from the discussion, and from the minds of many here for a long time, and usually absent completely (for obvious reasons) from all of the JCL's.
     
    cavedave and BrettHead like this.
  40. BrettHead

    BrettHead Devotee (479) Sep 18, 2010 Nebraska

    I declare you the Michael Bloomberg of beer and now grant you the power to both define and enforce what both an overabundance is and what constitutes rare...So Michael, when Bourbon County Barleywine comes out how many am I allowed to buy?
     
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