If we are truly advocates, should we be limiting how much we purchase?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Providence, Apr 7, 2013.

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  1. DBijnagte

    DBijnagte Initiate (109) Dec 7, 2012 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    So much hatred for Providence...
    I don't see the huge controversy of saying "this is how my philosophy when I buy a limited release, you do what you want". There may be something I'm missing but it seems like a lot of the quotes are cherry picked and used out of context of his overall message.

    I personally agree with much of what he is saying.
    Yes by buying any of a limited beer you are preventing one person from buying that beer. By buying all of it you are preventing anywhere from 1-x people from buying that beer. It's up to each of us to draw the line. In the end it is the store and the buyer his/herself who should make that decision and it should remain that way. Buy any amount you so choose.
  2. Windycitycheesehead

    Windycitycheesehead Initiate (0) Apr 4, 2013 Illinois

    How about everyone who buys any beer just surrenders a portion of their beer to an elected Board of Beer Governors. The Governors then redistribute all of the surrendered beers to those less fortunate souls who did not get to the QuickieMart in time to buy the latest release of High Octane Moosefart Dingleberry Ale. That would be fair and no one would have to go without?
    JxExM likes this.
  3. Hugonaut13

    Hugonaut13 Zealot (561) Nov 29, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Wow. This was a lot to read. Awful lot of butthurt around here.

    When exactly did beer geeks want our little ecosystem to run like a communist regime?

    You didn't get that precious rare bottle cause it all got bought up? Try harder next time. :wink:
  4. InebriatedJoker

    InebriatedJoker Zealot (586) Sep 16, 2010 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    The way craft beer is heading and as hard as it is to get limited releases now (example KBS)

    I have to work during the day by the time I got off work it was all gone throughout the whole city . From now on when I see a limited release beer I'm buying as much as possible , The truck chasers didn't give a shit about me and saving me any , I happened to get lucky and scored two bottles while others posted pictures of cases. From now on if I see them I'm buying them all if I can. That's what limited releases have come to .
    BobZ likes this.
  5. ChicagoNick

    ChicagoNick Disciple (328) Nov 16, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Because then I'd be "assuming" he wanted me to get it for him. right?
    Plus, in the off-chance that he didn't want it, I don't require more beer at my place at the moment. I am completely content with my current stuff.
  6. jokemon

    jokemon Disciple (317) Apr 3, 2007 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    well i guess it depends on how you look at "chances". Basically, after you bought it all you reduced everyone else's chances to zero percent at that store.

    If you look at it pre-purchase then yes everyone else had the same chance as you to get it.
  7. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    So if you gave him a four pack of BCBS there is a chance he'd turn you down?
  8. benjaminahudson

    benjaminahudson Initiate (0) Sep 29, 2012 North Carolina

    Am I too late for the penis measuring? What about the ego measuring? What about the pseudo-altruistic beer spreading measuring? Lotta words in here, and a lot of them suck. Rabble rabble opinions rabble rabble. I'm off to start planning my next hoarding attack!!

    Seriously, do whatever you want. Some of those people who "buy a whole fucking case!" are doing so to help out 20 other BA's who didn't get jack-shit in their distro. Those people are also the people who buy shelf turds and regular releases, just like the rest of us, and ultimately grow our beloved little pet known as "craft beer". Again, do whatever the hell you want to do. Seriously.
  9. BMitch

    BMitch Initiate (170) Jul 10, 2012 Virginia
    Beer Trader

    A couple months back I drove across state lines to hit a store that supposedly still had a surplus of some BCBCS.. When I got there I was told that a guy came in just one day earlier and bought the entire amount that was left, almost a case worth. What did I do? Say "damn" in a nonchalant way, shrug my shoulders and go pick up some Chocolate and Espresso Oak Aged Yetis off the shelves, and along with a couple other sixers I was on my way.

    The point? There's too much other damn good beer in this world to drink to ever be this upset over not getting a limited release. And if you still want to be mad about missing out, stop blaming the consumer and start BLAMING THE STORE for not setting a bottle limit to begin with that would prevent these types of things from happening.
  10. shebby

    shebby Initiate (0) Feb 29, 2012 Utah
    Beer Trader

    A message board with opinions?! And some don't align with your own?! Unheard of! Yeah everyone should just keep to themselves, do whatever they want, and never engage in productive, mostly friendly discussions. /sarcasm
  11. DBijnagte

    DBijnagte Initiate (109) Dec 7, 2012 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    I am assuming you are addressing my viewpoint and whoa. Communism? You may want to look the definition of that up. If I was advocating taking your beer after you purchased it and giving it to others you may have a point. I am sorry if hearing other peoples viewpoints brings such strong emotions but no one told you not to get as much as you can get, just that some people view it differently. I'm sorry if that offends.

    I personally bought the amount of KBS I wanted and left it at that. I didn't buy more than I needed and didn't buy any to trade. Many people, friends included, bought more than I did and that's fine.
  12. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,043) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the future (and the future is now) of "beer advocacy."
    yemenmocha and fishtremble like this.
  13. Hugonaut13

    Hugonaut13 Zealot (561) Nov 29, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Wait, wut? Strong emotions? .. mmk.

    No, my use of communism was pretty much dead on. This strange ideal that everyone should get the same share regardless of how hard they work for it.

    That's pretty awesome of you to leave some for someone else. Nice job!

    I believe you may have read a bit too much into the post. No, it wasn't intended toward you.
    BrettHead, JxExM, Kmccabe33 and 2 others like this.
  14. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    I never advocated this. I don't think anyone did. As I have said many times, anyone with the money and ability to buy it is entitled to enjoy it. My questions are, how much is enough? And should, if we are really into promoting good beer, be limiting how much we purchase? I think I have made this very clear a number of times throghout the thread.
    jaxon53 likes this.
  15. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    Right, but this isn't about just your views, tons of other people have jumped in and added their opinions, so my responses are to a mix of their opinions as well.

    I read someone say no one "needs" a case of KBS and it set me off. I'd love a case of KBS, not only is it one of if not my favorite beer and I would drink it, but I know I could hook a lot of people up with it.

    Again, I wouldn't work the system to shirk bottle limits or anything to come out with that case, but if it were just sitting on the shelf with no limit, I can't say I wouldn't grab it.
  16. InebriatedJoker

    InebriatedJoker Zealot (586) Sep 16, 2010 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    There is only advocacy now when those who do buy a lot share with those of us who didn't have a chance to get it .

    The days of limited release beers sitting on the shelves for weeks is long gone, it's a buy it when you see it or its gone tomorrow . Well unless its in Germany. I'm sure you can still get limited beers there pretty regularly .
  17. benjaminahudson

    benjaminahudson Initiate (0) Sep 29, 2012 North Carolina

    You made my point for me. Everyone has an opinion, and I could give two shits if they align with mine. However, that is not the tone of the last 8 pages. Don't make me out to be on an island, because plenty of other people are fed up with being told what to do and who to share with.
    /NOT sarcasm
    BrettHead, JxExM and Hanzo like this.
  18. benjaminahudson

    benjaminahudson Initiate (0) Sep 29, 2012 North Carolina

    Not even sure what this means. If the future is me buying as much of a local limited as I can and spreading the wealth with my fellow trading buddies and muling it for friends and family, then BRING ON THE FUTURE!!! You, however, seem to be stuck in this communal beer garden where everyone gets to hold hands and sing kumbaya and share sweet german beers. That's your thing, and I'm not going to pass judgement on it. Kidding aside, what do you actually call "beer advocacy" and where does my approach vary wildly with yours? Take away my very simplistic and obviously personal response of "do whatcha wanna", and then tell me where I have steered oh-so far off the righteous path of beer advocacy?
    Romulux, BrettHead, azdback and 4 others like this.
  19. jaxon53

    jaxon53 Meyvn (1,041) Mar 1, 2006 Connecticut
    Beer Trader

    Judging by some of your replies, I'm guessing you aren't stupid. You are missing the whole point of my post completely though. If you gave some to family, muled for friends, that's great! The whole point of my post I( apparently you missed it) was to spread the wealth. Not the shitty 3 toys left on the shelf analogy. We get plenty of limited releases around here, and guess what? I grab my fair share and move on, limit or not. Just being fair in my opinion, not a pig...
    SammyJaxxxx likes this.
  20. DBijnagte

    DBijnagte Initiate (109) Dec 7, 2012 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    I feel like communism gets thrown around a little too freely. No one said "KBS for everyone!" its not possible and I don't think anyone would argue for us to divide all supplies evenly (speak up if you do BA, I will argue against your stupidity). Again get the amount you need/want. People have varying uses for the beer, some trade it to those who cannot get it, some gift it, some hold on to it, some use it as a metaphor for their political philosophy, some even drink it. I personally use it to make people feel bad about themselves and receive props for being an awesome guy (just kidding, all in good fun). The overarching idea that everyone seems to be putting forth and no one seems to have a problem with is do what you want, just don't be a dick about it.
    ILOVESTOUTS, Hanzo, BobZ and 2 others like this.
  21. Hugonaut13

    Hugonaut13 Zealot (561) Nov 29, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I can agree with this whole paragraph.
  22. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,043) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    I never said any such thing. On the contrary, I said you (and your two dozen odd "friends") are the future of beer advocacy. If you're gonna "do whatcha wanna" and embrace it, then embrace it. The future is now....
  23. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    I'd just like to point out how productive I think this thread is. While it has spiraled somewhat into the realm of personal attacks, stereotypes, rewording what people said to fix their own argument, etc.; in general it has stayed on topic and done exactly what I hoped: start the conversation.

    As the conversation progresses my interests have become more specific and I think I am seeing a theme in the confrontations in this thread. They are all circling around the same questions:

    1.) Should we, as lovers of beer, and consumers about to purchase a special beer, consider another potential lover and buyer of said beer when we decide how many bottles we are going to buy?

    2.) If yes what kind of consideration should we give? Should we care about those beer lovers that are our friends and family (and thus folks that will get a chance to try it because you give/share it with them) only? Or, should we care about beer lovers we don't know?
  24. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    Yeah, I rarely get "into" a thread like I did this one. It is a good discussion, but if we are talking candidly, I will always try to look out for my friends/family first before some random faceless potential person.

    That said, if I were standing in line with the last four pack of KBS and I overheard someone come in and ask for it, I'd hand them a bottle out of my pack.
  25. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    Hanzo, I appreciate your ongoing participation in this thread and your honesty. Thank you.

    It's interesting that you respond the way you did in your previous post. It seems as if your answer to my first question (in my last post) is a resounding "yes." You seem to think we should be thinking about other beer lovers when we purchase. You have been a spreader of the beer-love with family and friends and have said that you think about them when you buy (which is fine in my book). Additionally, you are now saying that if a stranger lamented that they missed out on KBS, you would turn around and give them one of yours. I would probably do the same thing (so again, we agree). So given this example, it seems as if you do indeed believe that a beer lover that is a stranger is worth getting a bottle of what could have easily been yours. I could be putting words in your mouth, I'm sorry if I have.

    So what is the difference between you and I on this one? It sounds like where you and I differ is here: I don't have to see them upset that they missed the KBS to give one that could have easily been mine away. I know that whether I see them or not, someone will be upset that they missed it and I assume it's going to happen.

    Of course, not everyone is going to be happy. Eventually the supply is going to run out. Some may use this as a reason to just buy it all up (under the guise of, "well some folks are going to be pissed anyways, so I'll buy it all...."). However, if we know those people who want it will get it as long as we take a slight bit less than we initially planned, isn't it then a good idea to leave it? Additionally, some may respond and say, "hey that's life! Not everyone can get everything all the time." I totally agree. Life deals some whacky cards and it's impossible for everyone to get everything. Nevertheless, this one is up to chance, it's in our control. We have some degree (not total of course) of control on whether or not more or less people get exposed to a beer that know is awesome.

    Again, this gets a bit philosophically complicated...

    ILOVESTOUTS Initiate (101) Apr 13, 2006 Connecticut
    Beer Trader

    Two dozen? You're shooting low my friend... Don't attempt vain personal attacks here, keep those to your german lager threads.

    Hits the nail on the head here folks. Well done.
  27. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,043) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    By all means...own up and embrace it, ladies. Tell me and the world the direction in which you plan to steer the future of beer advocacy.
  28. biercycle

    biercycle Initiate (0) Apr 8, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I wont deny the whole entitled wads bit. What I was getting at is that many people in said generation at least HEARD of the golden rule. How many high schoolers these days do you think have any clue what the golden rule is?

    Also, a friendly tip: Gluten is the thing in food (bread, beer, etc). A glutton is someone who likes too much of something (like pain in your case). =P

    You completely missed the point, which is that it would be better for everyone if the WHOLE community took into consideration how their purchasing habits of rare items affects their peers. It is very self-centric to stop your thought process at simply "what is best for me?" or "what do I want?".

    The short version: spread the love man, dont hog it all for yourself.
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  29. biercycle

    biercycle Initiate (0) Apr 8, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Since when did thinking about any other person than the one inside your head for a millisecond become equated to Communism? Wow...just...wow...
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  30. justyouraveragebeerguy

    justyouraveragebeerguy Initiate (0) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois

    Got 2 KBS this year and I couldn't care less as long as I got one to try with friends and one to cellar. I still have plenty of Black Note, BBp5th, BCBCS, Peruvian Morning etc. Too many good barrel aged beers out there to get upset if one is hard to find.

    As for hoarding, I pretty much only hoard guezue. When Golden Blend hit I snatched up 4, but that's not much of anything because they have been sitting on shelves for a month now. I think that beer is at the right price at $25 each. Still it's one of the best gueze's I've ever had.
  31. biercycle

    biercycle Initiate (0) Apr 8, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Bravo to both of you. These types of moments are awesome and make everyone happier. Why do some many people prefer to withhold something and take pleasure out of another beer advocate suffering instead of sharing?

    Exactly, we have a say in whether the beer advocate community is a warm, friendly, welcoming, cooperative adventure or a hostile, every man for himself, social darwinism competition. Personally, I would prefer the former but a lot of people in this thread seem to like the later.
  32. Hugonaut13

    Hugonaut13 Zealot (561) Nov 29, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Y so serious? :astonished:
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  33. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,413) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    It is the product of taking an argument to its conclusion. And no, it is not clear, your argument is completely arbitrary. You have never used the word arbitrary, but it perfectly describes the philosophy you advocate. Summed up, this discussion fails because here is its redux:

    A is not exhibiting advocacy because A bought too much beer and B...Z cannot now buy beer.
    How much is too much?

    The fail, of course, is that 1. no matter how much of anything someone buys, even if it is an atom, someone else will not be able to buy that amount, and 2. there is some definable amount of something one can have above which someone is exhibiting selfishness, below which someone is exhibiting altruism (advocacy).
  34. biercycle

    biercycle Initiate (0) Apr 8, 2012 Pennsylvania

    Because that is sorely misinformed, naive, ignorant hyperbolism that is absurd and in no way related to the context or purpose of the OP or ensuing discussion.
  35. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    I may be cynical in my thought process here. If I grab a case of KBS I know I can do wonders with it. If I grab 1 bottle leaving the other 23 on the shelf I don't know if the next guy in is going to buy it all and throw it up on Craigslist or put it up here to see if he could win some trades.

    In a perfect world if I left those 23 bottles on the shelf 23 individuals looking to try KBS for the first time, or getting a chance to drink a beer they love again would get a bottle....but I just don't see anything remotely like that happening.....not in our current limited release beer culture.

    But even still I'd never buy more than I wanted or knew I had takers for, I'd never buy just for the sake of buying something "rare".
  36. ChicagoNick

    ChicagoNick Disciple (328) Nov 16, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Not everyone can spend, or wants to spend, $25 on a 4pack of beer. I waited to ask him out of respect. He just had a baby. I know money can be a little tight in those situations. Didn't want to make him feel obligated.

    And like I said, in the OFF-CHANCE that he didn't want it, I don't need it because I have plenty of other beer that needs to be consumed. As I've said in previous posts, I'd rather not have extra cash wrapped up in beer that I can't consume in the near future.
  37. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    That's my bad, I read it as he was a friend and there was a chance even if he didn't have the money you'd gift it to him thinking he would like it.
  38. Hugonaut13

    Hugonaut13 Zealot (561) Nov 29, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    It IS absurd! That's the point!

    I like you. I'm going to follow you.
  39. ChicagoNick

    ChicagoNick Disciple (328) Nov 16, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Its great that you'd buy a coworker $25 worth of beer just for the hell of it.
  40. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    That's why I said my bad, I took "buddy" as "friend" and not a co-worker, no I wouldn't buy $25 of beer for a co-worker (unless they were a friend I happened to work with).
    franklinn and ChicagoNick like this.
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