India Belgian Sour Stout

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by MilkLeg, Oct 23, 2017.

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  1. MilkLeg

    MilkLeg Initiate (141) Feb 8, 2016 Canada (AB)

    I’m not saying it would be a good idea to combine all these styles in hopes of making some outstanding beer, because obviously it could lead to something being overwhelming and unbalanced. I’m thinking more of a hypothetical situation where the idea is to take all the biggest and most recognizable flavours in beer and figure out the ways they compliment and overlap with each other. My idea is India for bitter and floral hop flavour, stout for malt which can bring both sweetness and roasted bitterness, Belgian for the recognizable yeast flavour and carbonation, and sour for bacteria and fermenting alternatives. First of all, what other styles are missing here that have their own distinctiveness? Wheat beers maybe, but to me those seem to be closer to either the Belgian category or a basic lager or ale with an adjunct. Smoked beers to me are just taking the idea of roasted grains in dark beer to a different level. Lagers and ales are just a base to build these bigger flavours on so I would leave that distinction out. What else is missing here in the elementary and most noticeable flavours of modern beer styles?
     
  2. HorseheadsHophead

    HorseheadsHophead Poo-Bah (2,514) Sep 15, 2014 Colorado
    Society

    No offense, but that sounds like a hot mess.
     
  3. MilkLeg

    MilkLeg Initiate (141) Feb 8, 2016 Canada (AB)

    The idea isn’t really to make a beer with all these flavours equally, but rather to figure out what the most basic flavours might be and balance them in different beers. I realize this is what beer brewing already does, I’m just talking about a way to categorize the most basic and recognizable flavours and link them to a particular style.
     
  4. MilkLeg

    MilkLeg Initiate (141) Feb 8, 2016 Canada (AB)

    [​IMG]
    I saw this on brewers website not too long ago and I was basically wondering if there would be a way to simplify this graph.
     
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  5. HorseheadsHophead

    HorseheadsHophead Poo-Bah (2,514) Sep 15, 2014 Colorado
    Society

    Yeah, I know what you're going for, I just don't think the end result would taste too well. Combing all of the most powerful flavors would probably be a mess. They would either overpower your palate and you wouldn't taste much of anything, or they would cancel each other out and there wouldn't be much to taste. I'm all for crazy new beer ideas, but you have to leave room for subtlety and harmony.
     
  6. MilkLeg

    MilkLeg Initiate (141) Feb 8, 2016 Canada (AB)

    Right, like maybe a way to combine them both equally and subtly would be a wild ale with some colour from malts and some citrus or slight bitterness.
     
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  7. eldoctorador

    eldoctorador Champion (836) Dec 12, 2014 Chile

    I'd rather combine individual beers with those characteristics in my belly
     
  8. braker649er

    braker649er Aspirant (289) Nov 25, 2012 Washington

    Respect for proposing an intriguing idea ... I'd be skeptical of this mix personally, but craft beer has had a ton of "crazy" ideas that look like genius in hindsight. If a brewer pulled off something as complex as this, playing to all these very different styles' strengths, and in a way that could be appreciated by most palates, they'd get mad props. This is what homebrewing/small-batch experimenting is for!
     
  9. HorseheadsHophead

    HorseheadsHophead Poo-Bah (2,514) Sep 15, 2014 Colorado
    Society

    I think the expression "too much of a good thing" is relevant here. :smile:
    I love IPAs, sours, stouts, and Belgian styles, but maybe not all at the same time.
     
  10. Burt

    Burt Crusader (760) Nov 27, 2005 Rhode Island

    There is a brew that closely resembles the flavor profile that you are asking for. My Blueberry Nightmare is a polarizing brew. I enjoyed it but many think it is a hot mess,
     
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  11. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (14,957) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Society Trader

    OP - I'm tempted to point out that you forgot hot peppers and bourbon barrel aging. There are always flavors looking to be combined in some magical way, but the more conflicting flavors you add, the less likely that you'll find that magic. I like stouts, don't like them overly bitter or sour, but the Belgian angle is intriguing. IPA fans may not like a stout thrown in, the sour taste, or the Belgian yeast.
     
  12. teal

    teal Initiate (82) May 3, 2012 Wisconsin

    I don't know - I never had a stout and said "I wish I had an IPA flavor at the same time" - never had an IPA and said "I wish there was some roast coffee there too".

    The reason why I drink by style is because that's the style and specific flavors I am wanting to experience at that time. If I want IPA bitterness and citrus - I drink an IPA, if I wanted toast, malt and coffee - I drink a coffee stout.

    I'm not greedy, I don't need them all at the same exact time - I'll go 1 by 1 to get them without issue.
     
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  13. keithmurray

    keithmurray Poo-Bah (1,802) Oct 7, 2009 Connecticut
    Society

    *when 'innovation' goes wrong*
     
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  14. Lucular

    Lucular Poo-Bah (4,497) Jun 20, 2014 Maryland
    Society Trader

    Let's see. As mentioned above, other distinctive beer components you could add are barrel aging (preferably more than one barrel type) and hot peppers. Fruit is also a possibility to add another layer of complexity/muddle.

    Seriously though, if you really want to see what a beer like this would taste like just pick a Belgian, stout, IPA, and sour, and pour some of each into a glass. Try different proportions to see how that changes things. I'm sure it will taste great by the time you're finished with four beers. :wink:
     
  15. frozyn

    frozyn Devotee (427) May 16, 2015 New York
    Trader

    This isn't the most far-fetched idea. There are stouts fermented with Belgian yeasts, sour IPAs, India stouts, belgian IPAs, etc. It would be an insanely delicate trick to combine all the "key" qualities from each of these into a single beer, of course. But you could brew a stout, fermented with a Belgian yeast that's dry hopped like an IPA and then secondary on cherries/raspberries or something similar to get at least a little tartness/sourness. Hardest part of that, off the top of my head, would be hopping with something that goes well with the fruit.

    Age in it port barrels and you'd have a helluva strange thing I'd be willing to taste. You won't see me standing in line to be the first to try brewing it, though! :wink:
     
  16. BeerPugz

    BeerPugz Initiate (81) Dec 4, 2016 Wisconsin

    Oops, we allowed lacto to enter the beer. Let's sell it anyways and name it something far out.
     
  17. JackRWatkins

    JackRWatkins Crusader (751) Nov 3, 2014 Georgia
    Trader

    oh, you mean IBSS well it's got IBS in the name so...there
     
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  18. bubseymour

    bubseymour Poo-Bah (3,561) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Society Trader

    So its a new style called a Black Belgian Sour IPA?

    Sure, I'm on board. As long as its not too ashy from the dark roasted malts or too bitterly hopped it should be a pretty tasty mash up hybrid of a beer.
     
  19. HeilanCoo

    HeilanCoo Initiate (0) Sep 11, 2014 North Carolina
    Deactivated

    Oh for fuck's sake.
    Doesn't this go completely against the Splitter mentality of the other thread?

    ... and you've lost any credibility you ever hoped to have.
     
  20. MilkLeg

    MilkLeg Initiate (141) Feb 8, 2016 Canada (AB)

    I think you’re missing the point of this thread, which I tried to make clear in my second and third posts. Seems like a lot of people just read the title and concluded that mixing these styles would be ridiculous, which I’ll admit I agree with, but the main idea was about finding the most noticeable and unique flavours in beer.
    That’s why I decided to leave the distinction of lager and ale out, because it’s a subtle difference in this sense.
     
  21. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    Adding a bunch of good, but very different, things together usually doesn't result in a better thing.
     
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  22. TonyLema1

    TonyLema1 Poo-Bah (1,932) Nov 19, 2008 South Carolina
    Society

    When I saw the title, I was hoping it wasn't a real thing
     
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  23. El_Brujo_de_A2

    El_Brujo_de_A2 Initiate (0) Nov 15, 2016 Michigan

    I volunteer myself as a guinea pig if this idea ever comes to fruition.
     
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  24. DISKORD

    DISKORD Initiate (0) Feb 28, 2017 South Carolina

    Sounds awful and seems like somebody is a little bored.
     
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  25. Squire

    Squire Poo-Bah (2,803) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
    Society Trader

    Curiosity killed the cat so I ain't taking any chances.
     
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  26. ManforallSaisons

    ManforallSaisons Devotee (429) Mar 20, 2008 Belgium

    No one thought to suggest an Imperial Session something? :stuck_out_tongue:

    If there is a well-bittered Belgian quad (thus with probably some yeast character, and a slight sour note wouldn't be out of line for that, either), you're there. Surely I can think of one... racking my brain...
     
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  27. MilkLeg

    MilkLeg Initiate (141) Feb 8, 2016 Canada (AB)

    Session barley wine
     
    #27 MilkLeg, Oct 26, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
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  28. rab53

    rab53 Poo-Bah (3,260) May 1, 2005 Washington
    Society Trader

    Chocolate...good.
    Smoked salmon...good.
    Together? Amazing.
     
  29. marquis

    marquis Champion (825) Nov 20, 2005 England

    https://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/session-imperial-stout.html
     
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  30. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Initiate (0) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania

    That's two things. Decidedly not "a bunch". :wink:
     
  31. IBUBrew

    IBUBrew Aspirant (270) May 6, 2017 Vermont

    I once homebrewed the grain bill for an English ipa, dunkelweiss, saison, and brown ale together with Magnum, cluster, Northern Brewer, and mosaic hops.. guess what? That shit was disgusting! Oh and K-97 yeast.

    Why did I do that? I had a bunch of one gallon recipes planned, but had to move so I needed to use up all of my grains and hops.

    To the original question.. no, that shit sounds disgusting!
     
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  32. KingCobra686

    KingCobra686 Disciple (372) Aug 13, 2014 Connecticut
    Society

    This thread's title is very confusing because your posts within the thread are talking about different topics. Are you discussing making a beer like the one described in the title that contains all your favorite elements, or are you discussing doing some sort of study to analyze the flavors in beer?

    I dont want to dissuade you from exploring different tastes in beer, but categorizing and defining the different tastes in beer has already been done many many times. Its pretty much the core function of a brewer when they create a new recipe. Any worthwhile brewer is going to be analyzing each batch they make and deciding which flavors they like and how to recreate or change them.
     
  33. MilkLeg

    MilkLeg Initiate (141) Feb 8, 2016 Canada (AB)

    What original question? I never asked “would this taste good?”.

    The second one.
     
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