Is Knee Deep trying to become the Alpine of NorCal?

Discussion in 'Pacific' started by 01Ryan10, Jan 17, 2013.

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  1. jtmartino

    jtmartino Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2010 California
    Beer Trader

    Most seasoned beer drinkers, and the ratings, disagree with you.

    Do they not use city water? As far as I know, most production breweries just treat tap water to suit their needs.

    Beer is quite different from wine - I don't think terroir is a factor at all in beer making like it is in wine, except for in places like Belgium or Germany. In those areas, all of the ingredients used to make the beer are relatively local.
  2. AptosBeerDrinker

    AptosBeerDrinker Initiate (177) Aug 9, 2011 California

    It must be the hops that are not grown in SD county and the grains that are not grown in SD county that give Alpine it's wonderfully expressive terroir.

    Seriously though, it's hard to argue that even a place like Hill Farmstead, which sources it's water from a well on site, has a true terroir since they import their hops from (I'm assuming) the Northwest. The only breweries that could possibly claim any sense of "terroir" would be Moonlight which I know has grown some hops, Rogue which has hop fields in the Wilamette Valley I believe and maybe a few others that I don't know about.

    With regards to Knee Deep...I have enjoyed Simtra a few times but everything else has been very marginal in my opinion.
    Xul and jtmartino like this.
  3. TheJollyHop

    TheJollyHop Initiate (0) Sep 2, 2009 California

    Are you perchance a gamer as well? Given that Alpine has had carbonation issues before, and quality being a talking point, I would have to demote them to "Top-Tier."
  4. grandmeaulnes

    grandmeaulnes Initiate (0) Oct 18, 2010 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    Try some Hill Farmstead beers if you haven't. Terroir is huge component of beer making.
  5. JohnQ

    JohnQ Initiate (0) Jul 7, 2012 California

    In most cases I like the KD beers.Hop Shortage was Ok the rest better IMHO.It's readily available but I just have an issue with price.My local grocer had Simtra at 6.99 a bomber for awhile until someone woke up.:slight_frown:.But at 9.99 it;s still less than Bevmo.I still only by it once in awhile due to the price.

    I've never seen or tried any Alpine that I know of.

    Tried PtE once at Pangaea and to me it was just ok.Maybe it was a slight case of overhype.Ironically the first beer I tried that day was a red ale from KD which I liked a lot.

    Is/does Highwater have some relation to Drake's ? I wonder since the label says San Leadro.While it's possible for there to be a second brewer in SL.It just seems a bit of a coincidence.
  6. AptosBeerDrinker

    AptosBeerDrinker Initiate (177) Aug 9, 2011 California

    Please explain. The only ingredient that Hill Farmstead sources from its own property is water. I mean you could say they have amazing water, which they do, but it's a huge stretch to say that water=terroir.
    jtmartino likes this.
  7. theconductor

    theconductor Aspirant (212) Nov 4, 2008 California

    A bold assumption, and irrelevant. Unless of course only seasoned beer drinkers can distinguish quality. Which would also mean that there aren't many seasoned beer drinking judges at the Bistro DIPA fest. The ratings for Simtra are very close to those of Exponential Hopiness, close enough for a good argument.
    RobertV916 likes this.
  8. grandmeaulnes

    grandmeaulnes Initiate (0) Oct 18, 2010 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    Oh I'm not equating the two 1:1 and am not professing to be an authority on the subject. I've just read numerous things about the well water and its role in creating the distinctive flavor of HF beers, particularly the saisons.
  9. DCRA

    DCRA Initiate (0) Dec 14, 2011 California

    Out of curiosity, which breweries are "God-tier" to you.
  10. jtmartino

    jtmartino Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2010 California
    Beer Trader

    Th Bistro's DIPA fest? Are you serious? I thought everyone knew the judging there is a joke. People's choice should designate the winner.

    Have you actually ever had any reasonable amount of Alpine beer, or are you simply speculating?
  11. UCLABrewN84

    UCLABrewN84 Poo-Bah (12,229) Mar 18, 2010 California

    There are none in my book.
  12. stupac2

    stupac2 Zealot (518) Feb 22, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    Hill also adjusts the water as there's a strong seasonal fluctuation in its chemical composition. I heard him talk, at length, about this. So I think calling his water source "terroir" is pretty odd, given that even he's manipulating it.
    I want to know why people ever think that judging is meaningful. Beer Judging is one of the single stupidest things I've seen in the beer community, up there with Randalls.
  13. ImJ2x

    ImJ2x Initiate (0) Jan 3, 2012 California

    It can be argued that "taste" is subjective. Price is not. Having been victimized by SEVERAL undercarbed, flat Alpine bombers, I still could appreciate the flavor profile of Alpine's brilliantly crafted recipes. (Pat f'ing KNOWS how to make an IPA.) KneeDeep makes some good IPAs, but they're simply NOT at Alpine level. And the pricepoint is undefendable. Now if only Pat/Einstein could figure out a way to distribute his beer. I only live an hour-and-a-half north in Orange County; KneeDeep is all over the place, but I still have to drive all the way to Alpine to get Pat's (often flat) beers. Alpine deserves their rep for making world-class IPAs, at an affordable price. They just don't know how to bottle, or distribute. It's kinda sad. And that's exactly why Stone has earned their way to the top of my list.
  14. ImJ2x

    ImJ2x Initiate (0) Jan 3, 2012 California

    Wow. This is the best post I've ever read on :slight_smile:
    sbuysse likes this.
  15. PeterJ

    PeterJ Initiate (69) Dec 5, 2012 California

    How dare he state a fact about Alpine? The nerve of some people. :rolling_eyes:

    Alpine is not God anything, IMO.
    And with that said, Knee Deep is not even close to touching Alpine.
  16. CommanderOfAwesome

    CommanderOfAwesome Devotee (468) Aug 30, 2012 California

    This. Drakes is slightly above Pryamid for me.
  17. OTB

    OTB Disciple (395) Sep 2, 2011 California

    Very interesting article in todays Wall Street Journal on the issue of terroir in craft beer. A must read.

  18. Srsly

    Srsly Initiate (174) Mar 21, 2010 California

    I like Knee Deep's beers a lot, but I don't quite think they're on the same level as Alpine's hoppy stuff, and I don't really see the comparison anyway. Knee Deep is way more widely available, more expensive, hasn't had any qc issues that i know of, and i actually like tanilla and imp tanilla a lot more than alpine's maltier beers that i've had.

    now if you were trying to tell me that Beachwood in LBC wants to be Alpine North I might be more receptive. great hoppy beers, not really available outside of the brewery and immediate vicinity, bbq, fun pub/brewery atmosphere...
  19. DrtyBvrJuce

    DrtyBvrJuce Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2013 California

    Are you aware that Alpine has a capacity of 1,500BBL/yr? They can't stock local accounts and you're bitching you live way up in LA and can't get it? Locals have to drive to the brewery to get it. Stop whining.
    jtmartino likes this.
  20. goodbetterbestbested

    goodbetterbestbested Initiate (0) May 10, 2012 California

    thats ridiculous
    ImJ2x, abecall98 and jtmartino like this.
  21. jtmartino

    jtmartino Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2010 California
    Beer Trader

    Hopocalypse? Black Label? Aroma Coma/Prieta? Alpha Session/1500? Pyramid makes nothing even close to those beers.
    ImJ2x and abecall98 like this.
  22. CommanderOfAwesome

    CommanderOfAwesome Devotee (468) Aug 30, 2012 California

    Pyramid might not, but you're talking about IPAs. Better IPAs available, Aroma Coma is decent but nothing amazing IMO, esp for the price. Ever try their Drakonic? Its about as thin as possible. Their beers are decent, nothing amazing and are inconsistent. Check out their tap room and their barrel program for evidence. I don't hate them or anything but to me and my taste preference, they're average.

    I'm glad you like them, and that's what makes craft beer so great.
    Levitation likes this.
  23. jtmartino

    jtmartino Initiate (0) Dec 11, 2010 California
    Beer Trader

    This whole thread is about IPAs it seems...and while you say their beers are only decent, most of Pyramid's beers struggle to even achieve "decent" status.

    I am not a huge fanboy or Drake's. Really the only beer I actively seek out is green label Hopocalypse. But to put them on the same level as Pyramid means 1.) you really like Pyramid or 2.) I haven't had Pyramid's "good stuff."
    ImJ2x likes this.
  24. CommanderOfAwesome

    CommanderOfAwesome Devotee (468) Aug 30, 2012 California

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