Kate the Great Day 2013

Discussion in 'New England' started by LiquidCourage, Dec 9, 2012.

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  1. LiquidCourage

    LiquidCourage Initiate (156) Nov 1, 2012 Rhode Island
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    Anyone going?

    Is the beer that good? I took the day off and hope that I am not driving two hours for nothing.
  2. jomobono

    jomobono Disciple (348) Mar 12, 2012 Massachusetts
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    I don't think they are having one this year since Todd Mott left, right? I dont' see it in the calendar.
  3. jomobono

    jomobono Disciple (348) Mar 12, 2012 Massachusetts
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  4. LiquidCourage

    LiquidCourage Initiate (156) Nov 1, 2012 Rhode Island
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    Good question. I'll email the brewer.
  5. drocpsu

    drocpsu Initiate (195) Dec 25, 2006 New Hampshire

    I doubt they'll be able to do it next year without Todd. He retained all the rights to the beer when he left.
  6. Jnorton00

    Jnorton00 Initiate (0) Apr 13, 2007 Massachusetts

  7. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    I don't think it's happening - in the past details were announced long before now, so even if there was already a batch sitting around from before Tod left, they should have said something by now. I can see some kind of modified Kate style day in the future with whatever RIS they try, but it's not going to be the same beer.

    Is Kate "that good"? Yes, it's easily one of my favorite beers in the world, and the reviews speak for themselves. A lot of people find it overrated, but I've always believed it comes down to expectations. Kate is a delicate and extremely complex RIS, where I think a lot of people go in expecting a punch-you-in-the-face beer like Dark Lord.
    fostah, Stockfan42, Gushue3 and 5 others like this.
  8. LostTraveler

    LostTraveler Initiate (0) Oct 28, 2011 Maine

    When people trade their cellars or Loons (or the new going price of 3 KtG for 1 Loon) then people's expectations are set extremely high they are setting themselves up for disappointment. I really hope that Tod does start selling regularly in his future endevours, its that good.
  9. RMoeNay

    RMoeNay Initiate (0) Sep 22, 2010 Connecticut

    I can't believe people would be disappointed if they even remotely tried to compare Dark Lord to KtG. It's not even close, DL is one of the most over-hyped, over-rated beers out there. I have had multiple DLs, in multiple years (pulled out at tastings) and have been disappointed every time, where as I have had KtG and I am impressed every time. Now KtG isn't my favorite beer, but it's a damn good beer that's worth trying to get a sample of. Hopefully it's brewed again.

    **edit** I make it sound as if DL is undrinkable, on the contrary it's a tasty beer, but when compared to other beers of the same style it doesn't stack up IMO.
    Franch likes this.
  10. Franch

    Franch Devotee (450) Mar 22, 2011 District of Columbia
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    DL tastes like kikkoman :slight_frown:
    vivasbeer and youbrewidrink like this.
  11. xanok

    xanok Disciple (369) Aug 13, 2009 Connecticut
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    Subjective obviously. Personally I think it's a better beer than the one in your avatar.

    I think both are amazing in their own rights, although I prefer KTG. It's a goddamn masterpiece. Although Dark Lord certainly was underwhelming or overhyped. The 2011 Dark Lord is definitely significantly better than the other recent vintages though.

    This came up in the other thread a while back. You can't "retain rights" to a recipe. Will Portsmoth Brewery likely respect his wishes and not make the beer? Yes. But if he had the recipe written down somewhere and they decided to use it and brew the beer, there's not a damn thing he can do about it. I seriously doubt he had any rights to the name "Kate the Great" since again, he was an employee and the company he worked for likely retained the naming rights.

    KTG Day has been the first Monday in March for several years now. It's likely that this was on their calendar months before Todd Mott left the brewery, and they only recently got around to removing it.
  12. GonzoHomebrewer

    GonzoHomebrewer Devotee (472) Sep 15, 2012 Massachusetts
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  13. DoctorB2B

    DoctorB2B Devotee (477) Jun 29, 2009 Virginia
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    Just for clarifcation, Tod has the recipe, Portsmouth still owns the name so what that means, I know not ...
  14. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    smutty33 and LostTraveler like this.
  15. GonzoHomebrewer

    GonzoHomebrewer Devotee (472) Sep 15, 2012 Massachusetts
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    Well i would think they have enough self awareness at Portsmouth to realize that if they say imperial stout, crazy beer geeks would jump to conclusions. Also, considering that they retained the rights to the name and how huge the day has become, id imagine theyre not going to waste an opportunity to bring in business.

    I do realize i could be wrong but the timing feels right. Regardless we all know it will likely be different no matter what because its not Tod brewing it. I know i will still head up out of curiosity regardless if they call it kate or not, im a whore for imperial stots.
  16. smutty33

    smutty33 Zealot (580) Jun 12, 2009 Connecticut
    Beer Trader

    If I'm not mistaken,I remember reading 1 of Tyler's first blogs as head of P-Brew, and he was saying that they were gonna do his take on a R.I.S. in the future.

  17. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    Well, think of the downside to it. So they come out with a new RIS, hype it up like another Kate day, and then the beer turns out to be exceedingly average. (or worse) That scenario would be very damaging for their reputation in the post Tod Mott era.
    Cbing6 and GonzoHomebrewer like this.
  18. GonzoHomebrewer

    GonzoHomebrewer Devotee (472) Sep 15, 2012 Massachusetts
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    Definitely see your point. I know I clearly made an assumption but it was more to spur dialogue that was on topic rather than the usual is kate good posts that seem to always pop up.

    Id honestly love to see them forego the day this year, but have Tyler brew a few different imperial stouts and have people vote on which should have the honor of being called Kate. That way you kind of reset the hype machine a bit, but still make something of it. We all know its going to be different, so why not try crowd sourcing so its not soo different that it negatively impacts Portsmouth, as you stated is a plausible scenario.
    hopmopped and ILOVESTOUTS like this.
  19. stupac2

    stupac2 Zealot (518) Feb 22, 2011 California
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    I don't understand why they don't just brew the Kate recipe but call it something else. You can own the rights to a mark (like a name), but you can't own the rights to a recipe.
  20. tehzachatak

    tehzachatak Initiate (0) Sep 19, 2010 Massachusetts

    Probably because either
    a. they don't happen to have a copy of the recipe
    b. have a copy of the recipe but are respecting Tod's work of their own accord and choosing not to brew it
    c. were asked by Tod not to brew it
    RoninTK3 and davey101 like this.
  21. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    Most likely deference to Tod. Without him, Portsmouth Brewery would not have the name it has today.

    Also, what I said still rings true - what happens if they brew Kate themselves and it sucks? Again, it would hurt their name. At least with a new beer there are no expectations. And there's certainly more to it than just a recipe. If it was that easy, homebrewers everywhere would be making kick-ass Kate clones. I'm sure just using port spirals correctly has a lot of art to it. (And the 2009 batch aged very poorly because of the port, so if Tod can't even do it perfectly all the time...)
    skivtjerry and FrankLloydMike like this.
  22. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    Yeah, they actually have a huge opportunity here staring them in the face. Replace Kate with a bourbon barrel aged imperial stout. Anything halfway decent will be widely loved and be much more difficult to compare to Kate.
    Stockfan42 likes this.
  23. stupac2

    stupac2 Zealot (518) Feb 22, 2011 California
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    The recipe (or some version of it, at least) is public. Making the whole "we're not going to brew it" even sillier, in my mind. The other two are, in my mind, asinine, but I suppose if that's what Portsmouth wants then bully for them.
    Portsmouth only has any name at all because of KtG. Ceasing to make it or something similar means they go back to being a no-name brewpub that no one besides locals cares about. If they want to continue to be known all over the world, they need to either make another absurdly good beer, or keep making Kate.
    If they make Kate and it sucks then the same thing happens if they make "New Guy's Imperial Stout" and it sucks. Either way it takes the one thing Portsmouth had and destroys it. They can choose to not risk that by not even attempting to make something that replaces Kate, but that just takes the one thing Portsmouth had and destroys it. Like I said above if all they want is to a small, local brewpub that no one outside of New England knows about or cares about, then excellent, they can take that course. But if they want to be known across the US, they have no choice but to make a new Kate.
  24. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    I think you're taking a bit too much of an outsider view of a tiny brewpub that genuinely only cares about their local market. They didn't create the Kate monster, the beer community did. In fact, Kate used to be sold in growlers as a non-event. Tod made all sorts of awesome beer, not just Kate, and people visit Portsmouth year round for great beer in an awesome brewpub atmosphere.
    jmmy3, fostah, RoninTK3 and 16 others like this.
  25. rowingbrewer

    rowingbrewer Champion (841) May 28, 2010 Massachusetts
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    5C's IPA was kick ass
  26. stupac2

    stupac2 Zealot (518) Feb 22, 2011 California
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    Yeah, but I think that would be true as long as they had a competent brewer who made decent beer, because what you described is "the community brewpub". What makes Portsmouth "not just another community brewpub" is Kate. They'll continue to be a community brewpub no matter what they do (unless the beer sinks into truly abysmal territory, I don't even think it needs to be particularly good for a community brewpub to survive), the only reason to continue to do the Kate thing is for the fame.
  27. rowingbrewer

    rowingbrewer Champion (841) May 28, 2010 Massachusetts
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    I'm pretty sure they continued to do the "kate thing" because they knew their local loyal customers loved it. In fact they would hold back several logs every year to tap at lunch time or right after 5 so locals could stop in for a pour in the "off Season". Yes the beer community blew up kate into what it became, but had this not happened they would have continued brewing it and allowing growler fills.
    FrankLloydMike likes this.
  28. stupac2

    stupac2 Zealot (518) Feb 22, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    You're missing my point. All I'm saying is that Portsmouth has to decide what it wants to be:
    1) A local watering hole with little to no national fame.
    2) A local watering hole with national fame.

    The point is that no matter what they do, they're still a local watering hole. But the only way they continue to have any kind of national fame is to brew Kate or something like Kate. Which path they chose is up to them, obviously.

    This conversation went sort of roundabout because I was replying to cbeer, who was saying that Portsmouth would be taking a risk with a new Kate-level brew, and I believe he's wrong about that. If they do it and fail then the end result is the same as if they don't do it, they're still the local watering hole and now no one besides locals cares about them. They need to decide if they want the national attention, and if they do, then they have no choice but to try to catch lightning in a bottle again.
  29. NiceFly

    NiceFly Aspirant (275) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    The gubberment gets pretty pissed off if you do not keep careful documents.
  30. rowingbrewer

    rowingbrewer Champion (841) May 28, 2010 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    The point I was trying to make is that they did not make Kate for National Fame, and you seem to think that that is the reason that they do it. Even if they continue because they have the rights to the name and label a different beer as kate, I doubt its for fame, but for people who enjoy going to a beer release. In fact i bet they would love it if the pub did not get swamped the day of, and instead it was a trickle of people from all over for a month or so before the beer kicked.
    FrankLloydMike likes this.
  31. tendermorsel

    tendermorsel Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2006 Massachusetts

    I would make the drive 2 hour up to Portsmouth on a random weekend. Not to get Kate but to get their Curried Mussels! They are the bomb. Kate is a damn good beer. However I gave up on that broad after I got there a ludcris hour in the morning on KTG day and got shut out on bottles. I wouldn't never make the trip there for Kate. I would make the trip there for the food and beer. It's a damn good brew pub wether they have Kate there or not. Portsmouth is a cool town too. Perfect for a 2 hour road trip.
  32. ElGallo

    ElGallo Crusader (795) Sep 26, 2009 New Hampshire

    So does Palo Santo, but we're still drinking both :astonished:
  33. ElGallo

    ElGallo Crusader (795) Sep 26, 2009 New Hampshire

    Tyler is a great brewer, and he is smart enough to not clone his longtime friend and mentor's beer. Peter (the owner) knows this too. KtG put Portsmouth Brewery on the national map, but the brewery was popluar locally before Tod Mott and will remain popular after Tod Mott. Kate Day is ONE day, with one batch of beer. The P-Brew will survive. Tyler will I'm sure roll out some very nice RIS, and Tod will (hopefully) brew his recipe again soon. Take a deep breath. Everything will work out fine.
    JrGtr, smutty33, theo871 and 4 others like this.
  34. RedMedicine

    RedMedicine Aspirant (237) Jun 3, 2005 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    Have you visited Portsmouth Brewery often? It seems you have a bit of a misunderstanding about how they operate..
    tehzachatak likes this.
  35. FrankLloydMike

    FrankLloydMike Devotee (499) Aug 16, 2006 Massachusetts

    I'd like to see Tod Mott return as a guest collaborator to brew Kate again--this was alluded to over the summer by Tod, Tyler and Peter, I believe, as a possibility. That's the only way I'd like to and the only way I would expect to see Kate the Great RIS brewed at Portsmouth again.

    Otherwise, maybe something like a Paul I--not a replacement, but a successor to Kate the Great--is the way to go for a new Portsmouth RIS. Tyler is a very good brewer, and I have no doubt that he could brew a very good RIS. If there's no collaboration and no Kate, then I'd like to see him brew a new RIS (or maybe even a slightly different beer) to be released during Portsmouth Beer Week. The Portsmouth Beer Week came about after the first few Kate Days, and has turned into a fun event for the town. I think it will continue after Kate Day, and even if Kate isn't brewered and it's not as big an event, I think the locals and BAs would enjoy some sort of (probably smaller) release event.

    But I wouldn't worry about Portsmouth trying to rip-off Tod's recipe or legacy, or chasing lightning for national recognition.
    rowingbrewer likes this.
  36. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    They've never done anything but angle for 1. Kate was never anything more than a "local" to them, it just became something more to the larger beer community. They're risk in brewing a shitty Kate follow-up would be in alienating the locals. Their reputation with the local community is hardly impervious to criticism - there are lots of great beer options now in the community, and their continued popularity only happens with great beer and a great reputation.
    RedMedicine likes this.
  37. DoctorB2B

    DoctorB2B Devotee (477) Jun 29, 2009 Virginia
    Beer Trader

    A great opportunity indeed ... an idea was presented by a former brewer to Tyler along these lines with a whole "day" to go along with it ... a brilliant idea but it was shot down. Didn't/doesn't make a lot of sense but that's his prerogative.
  38. SunDevilBeer

    SunDevilBeer Zealot (516) May 9, 2003 Massachusetts

    KTG was a good beer & even a better story for the wonderful Portsmouth Brewery.

    However, as with great movies that have had a great run of sequels, it may be time to leave the franchise alone & appreciate its memories, especially when the iconic actor leaves the series (in this case it's the brewer that leaves) .

    I have confidence that Tod's replacement will put out great beers & Portsmouth Brewery will still be a great place to visit. Always thought the food there was underrated, especially the mussel dishes.

    Can KTG just be a nice memory that can be let go - whether your experience was that of the early laid-back days of Growler sales & KTG being available for a week, or last year's version of long lines, crowds & limited sales (I acknowledge many folks enjoy that) ? Maybe they can ...organically create something else to replace KTG...or just keep being the great brewpub it is.
    Stockfan42 likes this.
  39. stupac2

    stupac2 Zealot (518) Feb 22, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    I don't think that this squares with everything else you've said, but whatever, I've never been there, I don't care that much. But I very seriously doubt that a bad new beer would damage their standing with their locals. Are you trying to say that they've never made a bad beer? Because that's the only way this makes any sense at all. I'm not saying they should make something and immediately go "IT'S AS GOOD AS KATE LINE UP IN THE SNOW FOR IT!!!!!" But if they want to continue to have any national cachet, they have to make a new Kate.

    And I completely refuse that they don't care about the national fame. If it's just for locals, why make it a day? Why make it in bottles? Why publicize when the tickets go on sale? None of it makes sense if they only care about locals.
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