KBS Statement from Founders

Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by Mattmc1973, Mar 10, 2012.

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  1. psykosis

    psykosis Aspirant (268) May 21, 2009 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    i agree that this was a highlight of the morning.
  2. JohnfromPurdue

    JohnfromPurdue Initiate (90) Apr 27, 2009 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    This isn't you trying to make a living. It's beer.
  3. dadmav

    dadmav Initiate (0) Oct 20, 2007 Michigan

    Got to Founders at 6 am,drove around the block and saw that I was to late based upon the line the previous year.
    That being said a lot of people commited a lot time and money to being there early on a cold Saturday morning only to walk away empty handed. To me Founders should take care of the people who participate in this event and reward them for all they do by making sure everyone who shows up gets their beer . BEFORE they distibute it all over the midwest.
    stxSS07 likes this.
  4. siege06nd

    siege06nd Savant (922) Dec 29, 2009 Virginia
    Beer Trader

    Another reason why Jackie O's is the best run release in the country. No 6 hour waits in line, employees on site distributing tickets before capacity is reached. This Founders release sounded like a shit show. The breweries could do their part to make line cutting much less of an issue.
    Rhettroactive likes this.
  5. adamdd

    adamdd Initiate (0) May 9, 2011 Michigan

    Like a few others on here I was in the 6:30 arrival group. I have the glorious distinction of being the first person to not get any beer. My buddy in front of me got the last four pack. Hanging out in line was damn cold, but I had a lot of fun. I got to drink a lot of great beer. We knew where the tickets ended, but held out hope until the end. It's really disappointing that getting there at 6:30 didn't get you beer this year, but I could/should have gotten there earlier. I for one am glad they cut to half cases, but I understand why the guys that were there all night don't share that sentiment. Founder's has some lessons to learn regarding this year and I trust they will do better next year. Even being in Michigan and less than an hour from the brewery, the only way to get any KBS is to be there. So little beer hits distribution that it's nearly comical. We as a group are somewhat to blame for all these problems though. The hype machine has gotten out of control!

    It was great meeting a lot of people in line and I hope to hear from some of you again!
  6. guajolote

    guajolote Aspirant (250) Sep 12, 2008 Oregon

    Yeah, they could hire this guy:


    Honestly, though, I don't think it should be the brewery's responsibility to police the lines. And even if they do bring in the Line Police & throw people out of the line for cutting, who's to say they won't just cut again when the Line Police aren't around? If a line is as big as the KBS one sounded, there's no way for the Line Police to watch the whole thing at all times. People need to self-police the line and/or be less douche-y.
  7. iadler

    iadler Initiate (0) Aug 12, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    My group got there around 6:15. Saw the line, said screw it, no way we're going to get any. Went to stand in the brewpub line with about 15 people in front of us and spoke to nice locals.

    Once inside the brewpub, it was one of the best releases Ive been too, with plenty of space, lots of bartenders and waitrusses and easy access to walk around.

    We probably would have been one of the last groups of people to get KBS if we stayed, so that's disappointing, but hey, I saved some money and had some good food and beer. Just like any other release, it's just beer.
    Mandark and quilty like this.
  8. PlinytheFarter

    PlinytheFarter Initiate (0) Dec 5, 2011 Illinois

    i knew someone would take that wrong.. you get my point
  9. JohnfromPurdue

    JohnfromPurdue Initiate (90) Apr 27, 2009 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    No, I don't get your point. You are implying that your company wants to cut your pay in half just to screw you. A better analogy would be - you were employed with them for 2 years and your co-worker was employed for 1 year. Your boss tells you he is cutting your pay in half in order to be able to keep you co-worker employed since business is tough right now. I would still say the company was right for cutting your salary in order to keep someone else employed. Founders wasn't out to just screw you guys. They were trying to give more people a piece of the pie while still keeping a reasonable allocation.
    TheMonk41 likes this.
  10. PlinytheFarter

    PlinytheFarter Initiate (0) Dec 5, 2011 Illinois

    I didn't even bother reading your response. Cheers!
  11. ChadQuest

    ChadQuest Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2009 Illinois

    This is richard 10 mins before he smells tuna.
    Khazadum likes this.
  12. brandonpeiffer

    brandonpeiffer Initiate (133) Feb 23, 2011 Michigan

    Boy I am glad I took my kids to the Fresh Beat Band concert instead of the release! At first I was disappointed that I couldn't go. But it sure sounds like disaster
  13. sullenbee

    sullenbee Initiate (0) Jan 15, 2010 Michigan

    So, you guys are pissy because twice as many people got to enjoy KBS?

    I got there at 6am, was #586 in line, and was grateful to receive my half case. I had an incredible day, met a ton of great people, and got to drink amazing beer. It was in no way a disaster. People around me were sharing incredible beers, all morning long. What I see as a disaster is hearing about people selling their allotment for $80 a 4 pack. I sold one of mine to a friend who was just after the cutoff for exactly what I paid for it, because I wanted to share. Stop being mad at a brewery because the beer is popular.
    Dael5859, aorloski, bbarak and 2 others like this.
  14. Jnorton00

    Jnorton00 Initiate (0) Apr 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    Who had the BA sumatra mountain brown and how awesome was is?
    biga7346 likes this.
  15. dlello2

    dlello2 Initiate (0) Nov 11, 2011 Illinois

    I liked the regular better actually... both were absolutely great though!
  16. Jparkanzky

    Jparkanzky Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2011 Ohio


  17. Jnorton00

    Jnorton00 Initiate (0) Apr 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    I'm jealous!
  18. paslaugh

    paslaugh Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2012 Illinois

    No. People are upset because they waited 10 hours longer that you did, slept in a chair or on the ground in the cold, and got the exact same thing you did at only half of what was previously communicated.

    That being said, I'm actually glad that they allowed more people to get the beer, but I would have rather slept in my own bed than on the concrete after a three hour drive for 12 beers. Still a great event. I got to try some great beers with some really cool people last night.
    Davidpgibbons and Zxzm like this.
  19. crossovert

    crossovert Initiate (0) Mar 29, 2009 Illinois

    There is this thing called a liquor store, they exist in Chicago, you can go buy yourself some..... Or is that too obvious?
    TheMonk41 and bbarak like this.
  20. crossovert

    crossovert Initiate (0) Mar 29, 2009 Illinois

    in the end it gets distributed.... so not that big of a deal.
    bbarak likes this.
  21. sarro

    sarro Initiate (165) May 12, 2009 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Question of the day: What amount of KBS would it take to make [any of] you happy?

    Also, to Tapedeck-

    They announced the cutoff of tickets while handing them out and said people were welcome to stay in line if they wanted, but had no guarantee of getting any. Not sure why you keep saying they left everyone in the dark.
  22. paslaugh

    paslaugh Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2012 Illinois

    Not really. The problem is that Chicago might get it 2 cases max at about 10 places. It's sells out less than an hour after arrival or if you're really lucky they'll have a one 12oz bottle per customer limit and sell it for $8.

    So if you live in Chicago, and are gainfully employed, you've got two realistic choices: going to KBS or eBay.
  23. crossovert

    crossovert Initiate (0) Mar 29, 2009 Illinois

    Well if you had any beer karma it will find you. I was able to purchase as much as i wanted of 2 vintages of kbs last year at cost. I only took 1 of each and went on my merry way. Sometimes you just don't need to go chasing these beers around.
  24. Corbet

    Corbet Initiate (164) Nov 7, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Is it really that hard to understand why people are upset? Some people waited 12+ hours in line in the freezing cold expecting to buy a full case of KBS, not a half case.

    Personally, I was fine with getting a half case because I understand Founders wanted more people to go home with something but it's understandable that people are upset.
    csano and Zxzm like this.
  25. sarro

    sarro Initiate (165) May 12, 2009 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    rhetorical question & the selfishness is easy to understand
  26. Duffman929

    Duffman929 Aspirant (279) Nov 27, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I still don't understand how the situation where some people are upset makes them selfish. People that line cut are selfish. People that steal from others are selfish. People that cheat on others are selfish. People that wait in line for something in a legit fashion with certain rules that are set forth and then have those rules changed last minute doesn't seem all that selfish to me. I think it is a legit situation to gripe a bit about. Does lack of fairness equate to selfishness?

    Again, it is just beer, but my thought is that all involved wanted to have fun and spent various amounts of time/money/energy to get there. If you want to fully eliminate the problem, I think that everyone that showed up should get a KBS, so there should be a 1 bottle limit. Anything more than 1 bottle would be a bit selfish, yeah?
  27. Soonami

    Soonami Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2008 Pennsylvania

    Handing tickets early isn't a great solution either because People will now wait in line even earlier because after they get their ticket at 8, they can just go back to their car or hotel and sleep. This is part of the reason why captain Lawrence releases now have people waiting in line at 1 am. Although a remedy could be to make people stay in line, but that would require someone to police the line and it seems like breweries have been very reluctant to do this to this point. Maybe they could accept volunteers, but it could get ugly.

    Online ticketing kind of sucks too because then people from all over the country are stalking the tickets online and locals don't have any advantage. And some people that buy a ticket at $10, will then sell them on eBay or Craigslist to make a profit.

    I think the way to go is a stagger release like RR did with the last batch of Framboisr for a cure, i.e. sell 10 cases a day (8 or 12 bittle max) for 30 days this gives locals a realistic chance at getting it. Another option would be to sell tickets for the event at the brewpub a week or so ahead of time. This give locals a first crack and keeps people from waiting 10 hours in the cold. Maybe another option to do is hand out tickets but make the lottery random. Hand out as many tickets as there are people in line but the first 300 are winners. This will disincentivize coming early to camp and maybe keep some people away, although it will profit hoarders that bring mules. There is no perfect, incorruptible system, but these kinds of releases could definitely be improved
  28. jeebus23

    jeebus23 Initiate (133) Mar 19, 2010 Illinois

    I get people might be a little upset at the allotment change. You expect one thing, get another, and you have a sad. But honestly, how often do you drink this beer that you need a whole case? I'd really like an answer to that. I still have some from 2 years ago. Most people will be lucky to get a couple of bottles of this. Consider yourself fortunate to get half a case.
    mm2112, divineaudio and GbVDave like this.
  29. TapeDeck

    TapeDeck Initiate (0) Mar 31, 2011 Illinois

    I love the responses that quote me and clearly didn't read my post. If you want to do the Internet straw man argument thing to feel good this evening, be awesome and enjoy. But if you're not going to read, you're not going to refute anything either.
  30. CellarGimp

    CellarGimp Disciple (331) Sep 14, 2011 Missouri

    I will buy mine from the store. The breweries should relieve themselves of this hassle and just let the distributors and retailers deal with the headaches.
  31. sarro

    sarro Initiate (165) May 12, 2009 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Just sharpie people hands after you give them a ticket or sell them their beer. That will deter most of the double dipping.

    A staggered release would be nice too if they wanna release more at the pub.
  32. jeebus23

    jeebus23 Initiate (133) Mar 19, 2010 Illinois

    You know how easy it is to get sharpie off? I think a better solution would be to use that election ink they used in Iraq. Wont come off for a week.
  33. Soonami

    Soonami Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2008 Pennsylvania

    Double dipping is not as big of an issue as the chat and cut or grabbing multiple tickets for friends. Prevention of either requires ethical behavior (not likely from a small but signifant population), self policing (could lead to altercations), or appointed staff ($).
  34. homebrew311

    homebrew311 Poo-Bah (2,242) May 19, 2008 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I think this release shows that the "show up and wait in line format" simply no longer works with the current state of craft beer. Dark Lord Day has things right with the selling of tickets. Yes, people will get shut out when trying to buy them, but at least it saves headaches for driving and planning purposes. I expect to see Darkness day be out of hand this year and basically require that people show up the night before and camp out to get any. I think we will see more raffles and ticket sales for future releases.
  35. travMI13

    travMI13 Aspirant (213) Jan 7, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I love that getting in line at 5 am is no longer considered dedication.
  36. BoneyardBrewer

    BoneyardBrewer Initiate (105) Apr 24, 2005 Michigan

    They sure make it sound like MI is the priority in ads however allocations prove differently. They typically ship 30 cases of limited/seasonal releases to the Tri-City area to be divided by 20 stores yet one retailer in, lets say KY, will get 10 cases. Or as far as the Backstage Series they send a total of 4 cases to the area. And to top it off they just added two more states to their distribution chain.
  37. sullenbee

    sullenbee Initiate (0) Jan 15, 2010 Michigan

    It isn't my fault that others chose to camp out, and I chose to roll out of bed and 5:30 in the morning because I live a few blocks away from the brewery. It was 2:00 pm before I had beer in hand, and 3:00 pm before I finally got to relax inside at a table. It was a long, frustrating wait for those of us who didn't camp too, but we made the best of it.

    I witnessed campers and others completely disrespect Founders property, men puking all over sidewalks, litter/bottles everywhere, and people flat out being rude to the staff. I think Founders made the best decision they could. The popularity of the beer has just gotten out of hand, and we can only blame ourselves for that.
  38. raymo55

    raymo55 Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I personally had a good time! I got there at 4:45am....I was #391. And KBS or no KBS, I met some awesome people, sampled some kickass beers, and got to drink inside Founders off the tap with some more great people! Isn't that what it's all about???

    I am a "beer advocate" just like everyone else on these forums SHOULD be! Stop complaining about the way Founders handled it! WE are the ones who created the "hype train" and the "shit storm"
  39. bierenutz

    bierenutz Initiate (0) Jan 21, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Why not just use bracelets like CCB does at Huna Day? The bracelets could be numbered for sales order purposes and cut off at time of buying which would eliminate line cutters. I never understood why a brewery would distribute tickets/numbers/tokens and not collect them of punch them at time of purchase (y'all listening at Dark Horse...but I digress). You can't wear more than 1 bracelet and tampering with it to get a second would be very difficult so that eliminates doubling up and without a bracelet you get no beer.

    Obviously, there is no perfect fix because the issue of distribution of the bracelets does not solve the problem with the initial line, the camping out, the line cutting during the wait, etc., etc., etc. I agree there still has to be some "self-policing" and let's face it, we need to respect each other's right to get the beer we seek. I know that may be asking too much for some out there...and I will now get down from my "can't we all just get along" soap box. Cheers to those that got yesterday, and cheers to those like me that did not!
  40. TheBierBoutique

    TheBierBoutique Initiate (0) Jun 9, 2010 Ohio

    About the overnighters, we got in line at 10pm, we all felt betrayed! Everyone around us felt the same way. We put in the time, we got our asses there early, we froze our asses off. And then at 10am, when they started passing tix out and told us that it was a 12 bottle limit, we all had to pull the knives out of our back! Total bullshit on Founders part. Being pissed isn't the only problem. Losing customers is going to be the problem.
    TapeDeck likes this.
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