KBS Statement from Founders

Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by Mattmc1973, Mar 10, 2012.

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  1. Lansman

    Lansman Aspirant (236) Mar 19, 2011 Missouri
    Beer Trader

    Sounds like a lot of these problems can be solved if the release took place in June or July...
    GVJoemomma and SchuStar like this.
  2. jrcmlc

    jrcmlc Initiate (0) Aug 8, 2011 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I have a much longer reponse that I'll send to Founders so they can ignore it, but basically here is the short version.

    They pulled a fast one on a ton of SUPER-loyal fans with the last-minute bait and switch, and why they did it only they know. They say it wasn't a marketing decision, but it will never look like anything but that. It works like this:

    "We can give out 300 cases to the 1st 300 super-already-dedicated fans we have, or we can screw them and only give them 1/2, then give 300 1/2 cases to some addl. folks that may not be AS dedicated, to endear them to us, so we'll have that many MORE die-hard fans.

    Now, sure, some of the 1st 300 will "swear off" founders, but in reality most of them won't actually stop buying beer, and for the few that don't come back next year becuase of the bait-switch, no problem, because all the KBS sells out anyway."

    I KNOW this is obvious to most of you, but this is the way it worked...so they made a GREAT business decision for them and a horrible decision ethically, but as usual, in the end, they'll come out with the business choice WELL better than they would have from the ethical choice....as is the case almost everywhere now.

    TapeDeck likes this.
  3. Zxzm

    Zxzm Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2012

    No, it's not your fault, but you didn't put in the same effort that they did. They deserved more than you.
    nanobrew likes this.
  4. FlssmrBrewAlum

    FlssmrBrewAlum Aspirant (204) Feb 25, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I really think eliminating the overnighters in this hobby is what needs to happen.. and it just so happens cutting the limit to allow more people who showed up at a more normal time (Albeit, still early) to get the beer is a start at accomplishing that.

    As far as "Losing Customers"... I really think you need to stop and think how about how foolish you sound..
  5. travMI13

    travMI13 Aspirant (213) Jan 7, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    How and when did it go from getting in line by 5 or 6 am should be good to getting the beer, to getting in line by 5 am puts you in the 400's? I don't quite understand how that happens. Yeah, you guys waited a long time, but why? Because you wanted to beat out the majority of BA's who posted in the other thread that we were getting there around 5 or 6? We all pretty much had a consensus in the other thread. Imagine our surprise to wake up, get there at 5 am, and see over 400 people in front of us.

    Founders had a difficult choice to make, and either way, 300 people were going to be mad. They chose to be true beer advocates, and got the beer to more people.

    At the end of the day, isn't what this is all about? We all met great people, shared great beers, and more people got KBS. The sense of entitlement from some of the overnighters being pissed off about that is both incredible and embarrassing.
    JohnfromPurdue and elephantrider like this.
  6. Zxzm

    Zxzm Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2012

    Entitlement? From what? Following the rules, putting in more effort than you, yet getting the same reward? Your statement is entirely stupid. Showing up at 10:00 AM and demanding a case would be a sense of entitlement. What you're commenting on is frustration over not being rewarded for the effort you put in.
  7. travMI13

    travMI13 Aspirant (213) Jan 7, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    By the way, since this is the only thread open at this point, thanks to everyone who was sharing pours of great beers. I had pours of CBS, Black Note, Rare, Black Tuesday, Melange no 3, Mother Funker, Oude Tart, Zhukov, Brunch Weasel, Parabola, Avery Rumpkin, and way too many others to even list or remember, all in 1 day, at the same place. The sharing was fantastic, and absolutely made the entire experience worth it on its own.

    If we shared bottles and pours together, thank you.
    TATURBO likes this.
  8. travMI13

    travMI13 Aspirant (213) Jan 7, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    The point is that I don't feel sorry for anyone who got there ridiculously early, camped out overnight, and is pissed that they "only" got 12 of the 24 of the bottles they were "promised". You think anyone had a clue that so many people would be camping out? You are kidding yourself if you think that. Everyone getting there between 4 and 5 was in complete shock over the whole situation.

    This whole argument about being rewarded for effort is crazy to me.

    Any ways, how about this: did you try to trade for more KBS before you left? Did you try to buy more off anyone else? Or is this seriously a principle thing? I was able to get another 4 pack from a guy by basically paying retail value and a couple of beers at the brew pub. If you wanted more, figure it out. It really wasn't difficult to score more bottles of the stuff.
    TheMonk41, raymo55 and bbarak like this.
  9. raymo55

    raymo55 Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Totaly agree with this! And it was nice to meet good BAs like you Travis
  10. jeonseh

    jeonseh Initiate (0) Oct 14, 2007 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    I think with these releases breweries need to decide what their goal is.

    If they want to reward locals, they are probably better to do what Bells did with black note and just silent release some at the pub. This lets people who visit them often to get it when it is there and prevents lines from occurring.

    If they want to sell a lot of beer at a pub, ticket sales before hand that guarantee everyone beer is probably one of the best ways to do this. This way people are guaranteed beer and they only waste a few minutes online instead of hours in line and money to travel. Think Dark lord day. Yah it sucks tickets are gone in seconds but no one wastes money or time.

    If they want to have a big party-type release then they can have something like KBS day was but they need to give out tickets at some points over the night to prevent line cutting. They almost need to hand them out without notice so people have less chance to line cut. Also if you give some out at like 4 am and then 6, you'd prevent anyone who cut in front of where you already handed out tickets from getting beer. This would prevent the ppl who show up at 9 from joining their friends and getting beer. If they do this type of release, I think they need to take an RR approach and release a ton or all of the beer at the pub. I think this approach is the riskiest in the Midwest given all of the hype that comes out of Chicago with these release. Personally, I think the RR release would be more of a cluster if they were near Chicago.
  11. BeRanger

    BeRanger Devotee (433) Dec 11, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I'm not even going to read the bulk of the posts above.

    All I know is I thought it was a joke when I got up at 4:45a, checked my phone and people said there were 300 people in line already at 330a. People started lining up out of fear which is kind of crazy.

    At any rate, after the amount of amazing beer I had yesterday, I could care less about the 12 KBS.

    Favorites were: Zombie Dust, Pliny, Heady Topper, Melange #3, Black Tuesday, King Henry and I suppose I could keep typing for another fifteen minutes.

    It was a great time meeting everyone and I'm kind of bummed that I missed the Kzoobrew Donut snafu. With that said, there is something about the beer community that is fantastic. Besides all the crazy plans of camping out at all hours of the night, that seven hours in line went super fast. It's great seeing everyone is so generous and sharing all types of beers with people they've never seen before.

    Hopefully everyones livers are recovering, everyone made it home safe and they aren't dry heaving at the thought of having a beer right now like I am.

    travMI13 and raymo55 like this.
  12. wintbs379

    wintbs379 Initiate (94) Mar 13, 2009 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Well hopefully you are one that Founders "loses"....loyal customers don't turn their backs based on ONE decision at one point in time.
    TheMonk41 likes this.
  13. EricCioe

    EricCioe Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2010 Montana

    If you camped, you did not follow the rules.
    immobilisme likes this.
  14. quinnsi

    quinnsi Aspirant (239) Nov 22, 2008 Illinois

    What is your definition of a super-loyal fan? Is someone who's been drinking Founders for years, and remembers when you could pick it up off the shelf less loyal than the person who discovered it last year via hype threads on BA, but is willing to wait in line for hours and hours in the cold? I don't think one is better than the other, or more deserving of the beer. Besides, does anyone really NEED those 12 additional KBS bottles? Most of the time that stuff just goes to trade bait, and as we all know a Super-loyal fan of FOUNDERS would want to drink their beer, not trade it away.

    Kudos to Founders for trying to do the right thing. Maybe a golden-ticket style thing is in order next time around.
  15. DanH11

    DanH11 Initiate (41) Feb 26, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    After seeing the craze for the GI beers in the last few months, you can't really be surprised that this release got so crazy with so many people camping out overnight. Lots more people read this site that actually post and when 30 to 40 people say they are going to get there between 5 and 6, many people think that by getting there earlier they will be close to the front of the line.

    These same threads that have people saying what time they are getting there also include all the great beers they are bringing. Its not surprising that so many people are there early when everyone is posting they are bringing CBS, Black Note, King Henry, Kate, rare sours, etc. KBS day was hyped to such a level on this site that there was no way it could live up to expectations.

    I think it would be crazy to stop drinking great beer from a great brewery over this. I may skip their releases though.
  16. jeebus23

    jeebus23 Initiate (133) Mar 19, 2010 Illinois

    I just want to give a big pat on the back and a hearty handshake to all the dedicated Founders fans that put in the hard work of sitting in a chair for 12 hours. I feel your pain. You were lied to and mislead. You DESERVED that full case of KBS for your hard work. I can't believe a brewery would stoop so low as to cheat their loyal customers by making sure the slackers who showed up at 5am also got beer. I don't believe any of the stories about the drunk guys at the front of the line. I'm sure you weren't puking because of drinking too much, you were puking out of disgust! You were treated unfairly and Founders needs to learn their lesson. Keep up the good fight, beer advocates!
  17. bbarak

    bbarak Initiate (0) Jun 27, 2011 Ohio

    Did someone say GOLDEN TICKET??? Maybe they should implant "Golden Tickets" underneath bottle labels of their beers and those who find them get to go to the KBS release and buy a case of KBS. This would make it "fair" and could possibly increase sales for Founders. Hell maybe you might even get a brewery tour and a chance to meet some "short orange hued" workers!!
  18. trginter

    trginter Aspirant (270) Dec 1, 2008 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Golden ticket/wrapper is a good idea, except what happens when some grandpa buys a pale ale with a ticket anf doesnt even bother checking the label? I dunno, just a thought.
  19. Vav

    Vav Aspirant (288) Jul 27, 2008 Illinois

    How Founders continually sticks their head in the sand about their own popularity is beyond me.
    nanobrew, Treebs and TapeDeck like this.
  20. bbarak

    bbarak Initiate (0) Jun 27, 2011 Ohio

    Well the allotment just went up....just a thought.
  21. bierenutz

    bierenutz Initiate (0) Jan 21, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Hey "Bros", where's the "dislike" tab on this new format? Pretty sure I'm not clicking the "like" on this one.
    Jnorton00 likes this.
  22. TurdFurgison

    TurdFurgison Poo-Bah (3,058) May 29, 2005 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    I enjoy the hell out of these tales of woe. Beer releases in general are a panicky event any more, with tons of people lining up for 1/2 day or more to guarantee their allotment.

    Best to skip them unless you're in it for the beer sharing (the strongest reason to attend in my opinion).
  23. jeebus23

    jeebus23 Initiate (133) Mar 19, 2010 Illinois

    Hey! Look everybody! It's someone that doesn't get sarcasm!
    MacJenkins likes this.
  24. ChugginOil

    ChugginOil Initiate (0) Sep 23, 2010 Illinois

    My first and last visit to Founders. I was # 250 in line after driving 3 hours and waiting in line for 9 hours, just to find out my allocation is cut in half, 15 minutes before the doors opened. Trash. Then, after getting over that, we find that we wont be able to actually go inside the brewpub to enjoy beer/food without waiting hours in another line. Poor decision, poor execution. Trash. No mas Founders for I. BIG disappointment....
    TapeDeck likes this.
  25. bierenutz

    bierenutz Initiate (0) Jan 21, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Gee, I thought my post would be more appropriately classified as sarcasm. Your's I think falls more into the category as mean spirited. But then again, what do I know, I'm only a "local" Michigan slacker and those that know me can vouch for that!
  26. trginter

    trginter Aspirant (270) Dec 1, 2008 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    More KBS for me next year!
    EricCioe likes this.
  27. raymo55

    raymo55 Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    HAHAHA.....everyone complaining about only being able to buy 12 bottles of beer (more then 6 bombers!) is hilarious!!!!
    Please keep talking about how you will never come back to Michigan for beer releases....LOVE IT!
    TheMonk41, EricCioe and divineaudio like this.
  28. jeebus23

    jeebus23 Initiate (133) Mar 19, 2010 Illinois

    I guess you could call mine satire then. With all the people bitching and saying they wont come back, we shouldn't have any trouble getting any next year.
  29. bum732

    bum732 Meyvn (1,150) Feb 18, 2008 Lesotho

    So much mad in one thread, i love it. You all created this, reap what you sow.
  30. Jnorton00

    Jnorton00 Initiate (0) Apr 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    I'm guessing I know the answer since no one responded to a thread I made earlier but did they have any special KBS glasses yesterday?
  31. TapeDeck

    TapeDeck Initiate (0) Mar 31, 2011 Illinois

    I don't understand the entitlement thing.
    This is more of a bait and switch for the people who were in the first 300.
    Why are you cool with bait and switch, and why get up someone's ass for being upset about it?
    Expecting a CASE of KBS isn't reasonable for everyone... But it is reasonable for the folks who either stood out in the cold from 2 AM on, or who were allowed to camp.

    Those people aren't dicks for feeling like they had a fast one pulled on them.
    They were given the parameters, and decided it was worth losing a Friday and a Saturday to get KBS.
    I suspect that very few of these folks would have been there overnight (with the tents that weren't supposed to be allowed, or otherwise) if the limit was reduced beforehand.
    You'd still have had a ton of people, but not as many road trippers, and less reason to try to be first in line, etc.

    It's not a sense of entitlement when someone tells you that "you can buy a case" and then when it comes time they say "Ha ha fooled you, thanks for playing!"
    Holland, Zxzm, csano and 1 other person like this.
  32. bierenutz

    bierenutz Initiate (0) Jan 21, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I think you are right...there, we have a point in common! Come on beer community, if jeebus23 and I can come to some common ground, we all can! Who's with us?
  33. beerhan

    beerhan Defender (612) Apr 28, 2010 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    They did not but may be making some soon, probably after the reorder of curmudgeon goblets comes in
  34. nickMB

    nickMB Disciple (310) Nov 17, 2009 Illinois

    its a mad mad world... When I was number 70 a few weeks ago at Flossmoor Station Hi-Fi Rye and they dropped the limit from 6 to 4 to spread the wealth, I was pissed for about 5 minutes. I then thought, its only beer, I'm still getting a lot of it, and more people can try it. So yesterday when I was number 400 and I got beer because the limit got cut, I was thankful and hoped people would have the same mentality of being angry for five minutes and then realizing they're still getting lots of beer and had an awesome time trading, tasting, and waiting. BA people always talks about "spreading the wealth" in trades (even though some people don't really mean that, they mean spreading the wealth for the best things they can land in a trade) well this time the brewery did it for you, and for that I'm thankful. Remember guys (and girls) this is an American run (American employed) small business trying to do their best for their fans. Microbreweries are one of the last bastions of great american companies, support them and get over whatever issues you have, otherwise you can time travel to Communist Russia and actually be pissed about waiting in line for the bread limit to be cut and you can't feed your family. Beer (well, good beer) is a luxury that not everyone can afford, count your blessings and tell your mother you love her every so often.
    TATURBO, cacbeer, divineaudio and 5 others like this.
  35. travMI13

    travMI13 Aspirant (213) Jan 7, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    No, they did not, unfortunately. They had an All Day IPA pint glass, the CBS snifters, and the script tulip.
  36. jeebus23

    jeebus23 Initiate (133) Mar 19, 2010 Illinois

    No, the entitlement comes in when they say they "deserved" it and "worked hard". I've been to a few releases where the limit was dropped at the door or halfway through. I didn't write off the brewery, I didn't write angry internet posts. I was still happy to get what I came for, and happy to see more people able to enjoy it, even if they didn't put in as much "effort" as I did by getting there early.
    bbarak likes this.
  37. travMI13

    travMI13 Aspirant (213) Jan 7, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    It was great to meet you, too, Shaun. So many cool and generous people in line yesterday. It was really a great time.
  38. Jnorton00

    Jnorton00 Initiate (0) Apr 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    Are they reordering them?? The lady at founders told me she was unsure.
  39. redblacks75

    redblacks75 Aspirant (228) Oct 29, 2010 Iowa
    Beer Trader

    I second the idea of that shirt!
  40. lisomiso

    lisomiso Initiate (0) Jul 6, 2009 California

    Size small for me, please!
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