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Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by Mattmc1973, Mar 10, 2012.
Sounds like a lot of these problems can be solved if the release took place in June or July...
I have a much longer reponse that I'll send to Founders so they can ignore it, but basically here is the short version.
They pulled a fast one on a ton of SUPER-loyal fans with the last-minute bait and switch, and why they did it only they know. They say it wasn't a marketing decision, but it will never look like anything but that. It works like this:
"We can give out 300 cases to the 1st 300 super-already-dedicated fans we have, or we can screw them and only give them 1/2, then give 300 1/2 cases to some addl. folks that may not be AS dedicated, to endear them to us, so we'll have that many MORE die-hard fans.
Now, sure, some of the 1st 300 will "swear off" founders, but in reality most of them won't actually stop buying beer, and for the few that don't come back next year becuase of the bait-switch, no problem, because all the KBS sells out anyway."
I KNOW this is obvious to most of you, but this is the way it worked...so they made a GREAT business decision for them and a horrible decision ethically, but as usual, in the end, they'll come out with the business choice WELL better than they would have from the ethical choice....as is the case almost everywhere now.
No, it's not your fault, but you didn't put in the same effort that they did. They deserved more than you.
I really think eliminating the overnighters in this hobby is what needs to happen.. and it just so happens cutting the limit to allow more people who showed up at a more normal time (Albeit, still early) to get the beer is a start at accomplishing that.
As far as "Losing Customers"... I really think you need to stop and think how about how foolish you sound..
How and when did it go from getting in line by 5 or 6 am should be good to getting the beer, to getting in line by 5 am puts you in the 400's? I don't quite understand how that happens. Yeah, you guys waited a long time, but why? Because you wanted to beat out the majority of BA's who posted in the other thread that we were getting there around 5 or 6? We all pretty much had a consensus in the other thread. Imagine our surprise to wake up, get there at 5 am, and see over 400 people in front of us.
Founders had a difficult choice to make, and either way, 300 people were going to be mad. They chose to be true beer advocates, and got the beer to more people.
At the end of the day, isn't what this is all about? We all met great people, shared great beers, and more people got KBS. The sense of entitlement from some of the overnighters being pissed off about that is both incredible and embarrassing.
Entitlement? From what? Following the rules, putting in more effort than you, yet getting the same reward? Your statement is entirely stupid. Showing up at 10:00 AM and demanding a case would be a sense of entitlement. What you're commenting on is frustration over not being rewarded for the effort you put in.
By the way, since this is the only thread open at this point, thanks to everyone who was sharing pours of great beers. I had pours of CBS, Black Note, Rare, Black Tuesday, Melange no 3, Mother Funker, Oude Tart, Zhukov, Brunch Weasel, Parabola, Avery Rumpkin, and way too many others to even list or remember, all in 1 day, at the same place. The sharing was fantastic, and absolutely made the entire experience worth it on its own.
If we shared bottles and pours together, thank you.
The point is that I don't feel sorry for anyone who got there ridiculously early, camped out overnight, and is pissed that they "only" got 12 of the 24 of the bottles they were "promised". You think anyone had a clue that so many people would be camping out? You are kidding yourself if you think that. Everyone getting there between 4 and 5 was in complete shock over the whole situation.
This whole argument about being rewarded for effort is crazy to me.
Any ways, how about this: did you try to trade for more KBS before you left? Did you try to buy more off anyone else? Or is this seriously a principle thing? I was able to get another 4 pack from a guy by basically paying retail value and a couple of beers at the brew pub. If you wanted more, figure it out. It really wasn't difficult to score more bottles of the stuff.
Totaly agree with this! And it was nice to meet good BAs like you Travis
I think with these releases breweries need to decide what their goal is.
If they want to reward locals, they are probably better to do what Bells did with black note and just silent release some at the pub. This lets people who visit them often to get it when it is there and prevents lines from occurring.
If they want to sell a lot of beer at a pub, ticket sales before hand that guarantee everyone beer is probably one of the best ways to do this. This way people are guaranteed beer and they only waste a few minutes online instead of hours in line and money to travel. Think Dark lord day. Yah it sucks tickets are gone in seconds but no one wastes money or time.
If they want to have a big party-type release then they can have something like KBS day was but they need to give out tickets at some points over the night to prevent line cutting. They almost need to hand them out without notice so people have less chance to line cut. Also if you give some out at like 4 am and then 6, you'd prevent anyone who cut in front of where you already handed out tickets from getting beer. This would prevent the ppl who show up at 9 from joining their friends and getting beer. If they do this type of release, I think they need to take an RR approach and release a ton or all of the beer at the pub. I think this approach is the riskiest in the Midwest given all of the hype that comes out of Chicago with these release. Personally, I think the RR release would be more of a cluster if they were near Chicago.
I'm not even going to read the bulk of the posts above.
All I know is I thought it was a joke when I got up at 4:45a, checked my phone and people said there were 300 people in line already at 330a. People started lining up out of fear which is kind of crazy.
At any rate, after the amount of amazing beer I had yesterday, I could care less about the 12 KBS.
Favorites were: Zombie Dust, Pliny, Heady Topper, Melange #3, Black Tuesday, King Henry and I suppose I could keep typing for another fifteen minutes.
It was a great time meeting everyone and I'm kind of bummed that I missed the Kzoobrew Donut snafu. With that said, there is something about the beer community that is fantastic. Besides all the crazy plans of camping out at all hours of the night, that seven hours in line went super fast. It's great seeing everyone is so generous and sharing all types of beers with people they've never seen before.
Hopefully everyones livers are recovering, everyone made it home safe and they aren't dry heaving at the thought of having a beer right now like I am.
Well hopefully you are one that Founders "loses"....loyal customers don't turn their backs based on ONE decision at one point in time.
If you camped, you did not follow the rules.
What is your definition of a super-loyal fan? Is someone who's been drinking Founders for years, and remembers when you could pick it up off the shelf less loyal than the person who discovered it last year via hype threads on BA, but is willing to wait in line for hours and hours in the cold? I don't think one is better than the other, or more deserving of the beer. Besides, does anyone really NEED those 12 additional KBS bottles? Most of the time that stuff just goes to trade bait, and as we all know a Super-loyal fan of FOUNDERS would want to drink their beer, not trade it away.
Kudos to Founders for trying to do the right thing. Maybe a golden-ticket style thing is in order next time around.
After seeing the craze for the GI beers in the last few months, you can't really be surprised that this release got so crazy with so many people camping out overnight. Lots more people read this site that actually post and when 30 to 40 people say they are going to get there between 5 and 6, many people think that by getting there earlier they will be close to the front of the line.
These same threads that have people saying what time they are getting there also include all the great beers they are bringing. Its not surprising that so many people are there early when everyone is posting they are bringing CBS, Black Note, King Henry, Kate, rare sours, etc. KBS day was hyped to such a level on this site that there was no way it could live up to expectations.
I think it would be crazy to stop drinking great beer from a great brewery over this. I may skip their releases though.
I just want to give a big pat on the back and a hearty handshake to all the dedicated Founders fans that put in the hard work of sitting in a chair for 12 hours. I feel your pain. You were lied to and mislead. You DESERVED that full case of KBS for your hard work. I can't believe a brewery would stoop so low as to cheat their loyal customers by making sure the slackers who showed up at 5am also got beer. I don't believe any of the stories about the drunk guys at the front of the line. I'm sure you weren't puking because of drinking too much, you were puking out of disgust! You were treated unfairly and Founders needs to learn their lesson. Keep up the good fight, beer advocates!
Did someone say GOLDEN TICKET??? Maybe they should implant "Golden Tickets" underneath bottle labels of their beers and those who find them get to go to the KBS release and buy a case of KBS. This would make it "fair" and could possibly increase sales for Founders. Hell maybe you might even get a brewery tour and a chance to meet some "short orange hued" workers!!
Golden ticket/wrapper is a good idea, except what happens when some grandpa buys a pale ale with a ticket anf doesnt even bother checking the label? I dunno, just a thought.
How Founders continually sticks their head in the sand about their own popularity is beyond me.
Well the allotment just went up....just a thought.
Hey "Bros", where's the "dislike" tab on this new format? Pretty sure I'm not clicking the "like" on this one.
I enjoy the hell out of these tales of woe. Beer releases in general are a panicky event any more, with tons of people lining up for 1/2 day or more to guarantee their allotment.
Best to skip them unless you're in it for the beer sharing (the strongest reason to attend in my opinion).
Hey! Look everybody! It's someone that doesn't get sarcasm!
My first and last visit to Founders. I was # 250 in line after driving 3 hours and waiting in line for 9 hours, just to find out my allocation is cut in half, 15 minutes before the doors opened. Trash. Then, after getting over that, we find that we wont be able to actually go inside the brewpub to enjoy beer/food without waiting hours in another line. Poor decision, poor execution. Trash. No mas Founders for I. BIG disappointment....
Gee, I thought my post would be more appropriately classified as sarcasm. Your's I think falls more into the category as mean spirited. But then again, what do I know, I'm only a "local" Michigan slacker and those that know me can vouch for that!
More KBS for me next year!
HAHAHA.....everyone complaining about only being able to buy 12 bottles of beer (more then 6 bombers!) is hilarious!!!!
Please keep talking about how you will never come back to Michigan for beer releases....LOVE IT!
I guess you could call mine satire then. With all the people bitching and saying they wont come back, we shouldn't have any trouble getting any next year.
So much mad in one thread, i love it. You all created this, reap what you sow.
I'm guessing I know the answer since no one responded to a thread I made earlier but did they have any special KBS glasses yesterday?
I don't understand the entitlement thing.
This is more of a bait and switch for the people who were in the first 300.
Why are you cool with bait and switch, and why get up someone's ass for being upset about it?
Expecting a CASE of KBS isn't reasonable for everyone... But it is reasonable for the folks who either stood out in the cold from 2 AM on, or who were allowed to camp.
Those people aren't dicks for feeling like they had a fast one pulled on them.
They were given the parameters, and decided it was worth losing a Friday and a Saturday to get KBS.
I suspect that very few of these folks would have been there overnight (with the tents that weren't supposed to be allowed, or otherwise) if the limit was reduced beforehand.
You'd still have had a ton of people, but not as many road trippers, and less reason to try to be first in line, etc.
It's not a sense of entitlement when someone tells you that "you can buy a case" and then when it comes time they say "Ha ha fooled you, thanks for playing!"
I think you are right...there, we have a point in common! Come on beer community, if jeebus23 and I can come to some common ground, we all can! Who's with us?
They did not but may be making some soon, probably after the reorder of curmudgeon goblets comes in
its a mad mad world... When I was number 70 a few weeks ago at Flossmoor Station Hi-Fi Rye and they dropped the limit from 6 to 4 to spread the wealth, I was pissed for about 5 minutes. I then thought, its only beer, I'm still getting a lot of it, and more people can try it. So yesterday when I was number 400 and I got beer because the limit got cut, I was thankful and hoped people would have the same mentality of being angry for five minutes and then realizing they're still getting lots of beer and had an awesome time trading, tasting, and waiting. BA people always talks about "spreading the wealth" in trades (even though some people don't really mean that, they mean spreading the wealth for the best things they can land in a trade) well this time the brewery did it for you, and for that I'm thankful. Remember guys (and girls) this is an American run (American employed) small business trying to do their best for their fans. Microbreweries are one of the last bastions of great american companies, support them and get over whatever issues you have, otherwise you can time travel to Communist Russia and actually be pissed about waiting in line for the bread limit to be cut and you can't feed your family. Beer (well, good beer) is a luxury that not everyone can afford, count your blessings and tell your mother you love her every so often.
No, they did not, unfortunately. They had an All Day IPA pint glass, the CBS snifters, and the script tulip.
No, the entitlement comes in when they say they "deserved" it and "worked hard". I've been to a few releases where the limit was dropped at the door or halfway through. I didn't write off the brewery, I didn't write angry internet posts. I was still happy to get what I came for, and happy to see more people able to enjoy it, even if they didn't put in as much "effort" as I did by getting there early.
It was great to meet you, too, Shaun. So many cool and generous people in line yesterday. It was really a great time.
Are they reordering them?? The lady at founders told me she was unsure.
I second the idea of that shirt!
Size small for me, please!