KBS Statement from Founders

Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by Mattmc1973, Mar 10, 2012.

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  1. decadance

    decadance Initiate (0) Mar 14, 2010 Texas

    Yes I am the prof, and you are very welcome.
  2. Tony412

    Tony412 Initiate (0) Jan 26, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    This was my first brewery release, I arrived at 6 am on the advice of people who had attended last year, I received ticket #594. I showed up to meet a few good people, drink a few good beers and buy some KBS. I was able to do all 3, and I am thankful that Founders tried to get an acceptable amount of KBS to as many folks as possible. I tried my best to represent the craft beer community in a way that I would want people to see it represented. I met and befriended the two guys behind me, they turned out to be great guys, with a great wife and fiancé, and beer karma turned out to be a very real thing. I didn't have any whales to bring, but I brought as much respectable and very good beer with me that I could. The 2 guys who were behind us, Matt and Scott, didn't bring anything to drink, and with more beer with me than I could ever drink by myself, I never let the glasses of the people around me go dry. The only person I denied beer was the guy who demanded that I give him a ZD after I traded for a case, more than a touch rude for me, I kept walking. From 6 am until almost 2 pm we all drank, ate and shared stories from our lives, when we each purchased our 12 bottles, Scott sold me his 12 bottles for $40 and thanked me for being so generous with the beer I brought. I left Founders with a case of KBS, but more importantly I left with new friends and can't wait for the privilege to raise a glass with them again. I hope some of you had as nice of a time as I did.
    Shagtastic, GRDave, EricCioe and 6 others like this.
  3. raymo55

    raymo55 Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader


    Future picture of the "travelers" at the 2013 KBS release.....if you will ever buy Founders beers anymore :slight_frown:
  4. genuinedisciple

    genuinedisciple Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2010 Michigan

    I got there before 4am thinking I'd be in the first 100...final original ticket was handed out right in front of me and I would have missed out. So, of course I'm bias, but I'm glad they extended it. Also, for all the Ticked off posts I'm reading, you people all seemed to be having a good time for being so pissed...maybe you drank too much and forgot all the fun you had? No question that these things can always be run better, but I enjoy making friends with strangers, gathering around good brews, and enjoying life. In my opinion, you play the hand your dealt...the guy in front of me had been going to KBS day for many years. He knew better than anyone how out of hand it had gotten...did he get all pissed off? Nope, he was happy that his new friends in line behind him got some KBS. Not all of us have to feel/act like he did, but I believe he represented the BA community well.

    *I'm now prepared to receive hate mail.
    FritterFlip and Jose2412 like this.
  5. TheMonk41

    TheMonk41 Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Ahaha no that's funny shit. Awesome line.
  6. TheMonk41

    TheMonk41 Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Actually just bring the sense of humor you have. Great hanging with you and laughing a ton.
    decadance likes this.
  7. tlh1005

    tlh1005 Initiate (0) Oct 1, 2009 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    This was the most egregious case of cooking the books we've ever seen. What Founders did was exactly like Enron.
    CBlack85 and decadance like this.
  8. Beertrader60657

    Beertrader60657 Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Our group from Chicago were ticket holders 590-593. We can't really express how greatful we are that Founders split up the cases. If not for the case split, it would have been two times in the past two years we would have been shut out. Last year we showed up at 8:45 and were off by ONLY 30 people. We got in line at 5:45 this year to be only 30 people away from not recieving any KBS!

    Anyways, I really enjoyed trading growlers with a bunch of BA members. Thanks for feeding my addiction. I have way too much beer now but I am expecting to go through all of it on St. Patty's Day!

    Also, many thanks to Elkhunter36 for the many beers you shared and definitely the kegs of Hefe and Chocolate Milk Stout, both were great! (next time we need to figure out a way to hide them from the homeless man.) Props to all that shared, especially Tony412 for sharing the BA Kuhnhenn with us. Damn good beer!
    Tony412 and sullenbee like this.
  9. Ungertaker

    Ungertaker Devotee (447) Apr 30, 2010 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    Sounds like Founders did everything they could to serve their customers. I wonder how many pre-trades are going to fall through now, though. I guess that brings the old adage up once again, "Don't count your chickens before they hatch."
  10. Orchids

    Orchids Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2010 Illinois

    All I know is at 388, I definitely wouldn't have gotten any. In fact, I had totally convinced myself I was fucked about 2 hours before the tickets were given out. I still had a kickass time and tried awesome beers with people who were the epitome of beer advocates. At that point, as much as I wanted the beer and despite the fact that I got there at 4:30am after 2 hours of shitty sleep, I was just happy to be freezing my ass off, sitting in a chair a total stranger was happy to share, and sampling beers I'll probably never see again in my life.
  11. stupac2

    stupac2 Zealot (518) Feb 22, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    Russian River: "We have 1000 cases of Beatification... Not enough to distribute, let's just release it at the pub."
    Founders: "We have 1000 cases of CBS... DISTRIBUTE TO HALF THE COUNTRY!!!"

    Only CBS because I don't know the number of KBS cases. But, seriously, why the everlasting FUCK do they distribute this beer outside of Michigan? It makes no sense to me.
    BoneyardBrewer likes this.
  12. travMI13

    travMI13 Aspirant (213) Jan 7, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I didn't know that was Kzoobrew. One of the highlights and funnier things to happen of the entire day. Stumbling and falling to grab the last 2 donuts and throw them into the box.... Wow. Amazing.
  13. GrueLurks

    GrueLurks Initiate (0) Jul 21, 2008 Michigan

    I took my pork butt and stayed home drinking some great BA Great Lakes Stout while playing pinball all night. I was thinking of y'all tho. I too think Founders was okay to cut the allotment, they don't owe anyone anything in the first place.
  14. travMI13

    travMI13 Aspirant (213) Jan 7, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I said this earlier, but the bottles being opened in the late 300's to early 400's were nothing short of incredible. It was a true who's who of craft beer with tons of heavy hitters from all over the country. I've never seen anything like it, not even at DLD. Thanks for the generosity.
  15. weatherdog

    weatherdog Initiate (0) Nov 7, 2007 Illinois

    That very well could have been me. Kzoobrew was talking up those doughnuts all night I just couldn't let them go to waste (I also hadn't really eaten anything in 12+ hours and though I was going to die). I picked either the cleanest one, or the one that hid the dirt the best. I'm still here, so it couldn't have been that bad.
  16. Jose2412

    Jose2412 Initiate (86) Feb 25, 2012 Michigan

    Im gonna say that the food truck probably would have been a better choice. The brat and pretzel roll I had were the Bomb!
  17. SHCC

    SHCC Initiate (0) Feb 22, 2012 Massachusetts

    I feel bad for the people who waited in line and received less than they thought. I feel bad for the people who waited in line and received nothing. It is tough because you have a very limited good beer that has a fairly large area of distribution and you have people who buy up as much of the beer as they can, when they can get it. Until production increases, this is a situation where a lot of people are not going to be happy. Unfortunately, the supply isn't there.

    For the Michigan folks, as a New Englander (who was introduced to Founders when I lived out that way) , I can tell you it isn't easier to get KBS here. Maybe somewhere else in the country it is, but not here. Last year, I couldn't get a bottle. I figured that I would probably need to take off the day from work to have any chance to get a bottle this year. However, I am finding that stores who have received KBS in the past aren't getting it this year (or aren't telling people they are getting it) and a few of the places I thought I might be able to get a beer from have now resorted to taking reservations or making lists. It is kind of discouraging to go to places and hear about lists of 20+ people for perhaps a case of KBS. I am just trying to find a place where I have a fighting chance to buy a bottle of KBS, and after going to at least a dozen stores, I think I might have that chance at one or two places.

    I can't imagine Founders wants all of this either. In New England, my understanding is that KBS distribution is tied to the store's distribution of other Founders beers. So beers that sell more Founders, get more KBS, and stores that don't sell enough Founders do not get KBS. I think that is fair. But, with this whole KBS popularity and the fight for this beer, you have cases where the people who drink Founders are getting shut out just because of the scarcity of the beer. I quit going to a particular store because I bought Founders year-round beers regularly with no ability to get the limited releases, and when I questioned this, I realized that this situation would likely never change. I think that is the problem breweries are going to face. Founders probably likes the popularity of these release days and getting people to talk about their specialty beers, and I doubt they care if a guy who only buys KBS and other specialty beers gets half a case as opposed to a full case, but they probably do care if that guy in Grand Rapids who buys at least a case of Founders a month gets aggravated by KBS Day. Eventually, I think breweries are going to have to find ways to reward their most loyal customers or they risk losing them when these limited releases shut regulars out.
  18. iowahawk

    iowahawk Initiate (0) Mar 16, 2008 Iowa

    Last year we got in line around 715 and I got ticket # 75. From what I understood the first person in line last year got there about 4 or so. Compare that to this year when we got there about 445 and ended up getting ticket # 382. Founders could not have anticipated people camping out this year, as there were no campers last year, so I think they made a good decision once they realized what was going on. I was irritated that they passed out tickets so late and had not addressed what they planned to do, because it was really hard to figure out where you really stood. Also there weren't enough porta pottys and trash cans , as no one seemed to pick up after themselves and there were bottles piled up on the ground everywhere or broken on the ground.

    I contrast this release to Darkness Day release this year, which I think was handled perfectly. Similar situation with a special day release and distribution, campers getting there night before, similar numbers for allotment. But Surly communicated to everyone in line around 830 that they were about to come thru and ID everyone and hand out bracelets(1200!), and there were pleny of porta pottys and trash cans, hardly any mess. Once that happened and you got your bracelet you were good as they said you could get your beer anytime until 4. This let everyone know where they stood in respect to getting bottles and this also stopped line cutters. At 11 when they opened up people were pretty chill, just made their way in without a mad rush, some got bottles right away others waited while they enjoyed some great Surly beer. it was about the best way you could manage a beer release.
  19. divineaudio

    divineaudio Initiate (0) Dec 7, 2009 Michigan

    I wonder if it was the same guy who picked up the cigar city winter warmer bottle from this pile on the side of the building and, discovering that there was still beer in it, slammed the rest.

    KBS Release02
    gustogasmic likes this.
  20. tlh1005

    tlh1005 Initiate (0) Oct 1, 2009 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    I've never attended a bottle release, but I can say once I do it will be to meet BA'ers and *hopefully* get whatever brew is being released. Since I've never been to any, I don't understand how people were cutting line. Do idiots just walk up and get in front of people with some sort of lame excuse entitling them to do so?
  21. northernbrews

    northernbrews Initiate (0) Apr 12, 2006 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Couldn't have said this any better!!
    BoneyardBrewer likes this.
  22. page101

    page101 Initiate (0) Jun 16, 2008 Michigan

    Thanks Mike for cracking some awesome beer. I was bummed that they ran out of Justin Bieber tix before my number was called but was happy they had some KBS as a consolation.
  23. steebo777

    steebo777 Zealot (511) Jun 30, 2009 Michigan

    The Bieber tickets line was priceless.

    Dude rolls up in a van and says "What are ya'll waiting for?"
    With a calm and straight face the guy close to me says "Bieber tickets."
    I nearly crapped my pants I was laughing so hard. Beer may have made it seem funnier at the time too.
    GrueLurks, raymo55, LaneMeyer and 3 others like this.
  24. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2010 Michigan

    Well this thread was fun.

    I had a great time, tried some great brews, met some awesome people, and somehow managed to not get drunk (yay!). The Frangelic Mountain Brown on tap was simply amazing. I'm an idiot for not walking away with at least one growler. Didn't get to see this supposed donut incident, but I did get to see the leftovers when I rolled through that part of the line around noon. We tried to convince some guys around us to eat one but no one would go for it. Should have offered my half case of KBS, I guess :wink:

    My only gripe is that I think the earliness of this event was ridiculous. I couldn't believe the number of people who showed up for a beer that gets distributed (albeit fairly limited). If this is the way it's going to be from here on out, you can keep your Founders release parties, and I'll just keep heading down to Jackie O's :slight_smile:
  25. komondor

    komondor Initiate (0) Nov 6, 2010 Ohio

    I know this will be an unwelcome comment but I wish they would raise the price of KBS. This is a perfect example of what happens when you keep a price extremely lower than what the market will bear. If KBS was $15 a bottle, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Would all these people be showing up for $360 cases? Plus people wouldn't buy as much and there would be more to go around. Plus it would probably kill the aftermarket sales of KBS where people are charging double what they paid. I'm not saying KBS should be $15, I'm pulling that number out of my butt but most people can probably agree that it should be more than $4.75/bottle. Maybe with the extra profit, they could buy some more mines to expand production more.
  26. trginter

    trginter Aspirant (275) Dec 1, 2008 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    KBS is good, but is it $5.00+ good?
  27. decadance

    decadance Initiate (0) Mar 14, 2010 Texas

    Yep, Michigan is just booming with abandoned mines to store beer.
    PlinytheFarter likes this.
  28. komondor

    komondor Initiate (0) Nov 6, 2010 Ohio

    Or warehouse like every other brewery in America. It was a joke. The price needs to rise though. If they really want more people to be able to try it, that is the only way. And that is always the reasoning I hear that justifies them switching to half cases last second. I've gone two years in a row and haven't been able to buy a single bottle to bring home and I disagree with cutting the allotment. The people that got there early enough put in the extra effort. Demand greatly exceeds supply. Charge more and they will drop demand to more closely match supply and they'll make more to reinvest back into the company to expand supply and possibly drop prices in the future.
  29. fishtremble

    fishtremble Initiate (183) Jan 18, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Wow after reading all these pages I am so glad my little girl had a divisional band competition this weekend preventing me from going (probably wouldn't have gone anyways since I am not a die hard KBS fan). Really cannot say I am surprised it went this badly considering what a piss poor job Founders does just dealing with distribution to the east side of their own home state on special releases I can't imagine something like this being handled any better. Glad to see all the comments on how much fun most had with the parking lot party though, that was for me one of the best times I have had since I started drinking craft while waiting on CBS this year. It is truly getting to the point for me, at least, where it is becoming more about meeting and sharing with the people then it is about the beer anymore. From all the pages I read I would have to say the allotment should not have been cut and definitely the people should have been informed that there was going to be a shortage because anything less definitely sounds like greed on the breweries part. They were almost certainly banking on the fact that those who were left in line that long even though they weren't getting any beer would at least come in and order from the taps. Tell the crowd too early and of course people are going home and they lose tap sales. Oh well we all vote with our pocketbooks and I for one never have a problem picking up other local breweries beer styles before I grab a Founders anymore (thank goodness for Short's, Dark Horse and Bell's who receive the majority of my $$). Kinda of a bummer seeing everyone bashing each other over this because it is truly all of us that make this experience great not a place like Founder's who just provides the beer.
    Number45forever likes this.
  30. Rempo

    Rempo Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2010 Indiana

    Where's the pic of your haul? I want to see people get half as outraged as they would have gotten! :wink:
    MarkIntihar likes this.
  31. decadance

    decadance Initiate (0) Mar 14, 2010 Texas

    Charge more and demand will drop? Have you met many BAs? The price the market will bare is currently higher than what they charge, on that point we agree. However, they could bump the price per case by 50$ and still have the same exact shit show as Saturday.
  32. stupac2

    stupac2 Zealot (518) Feb 22, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    Bumping up the price per case by $50 is only a bit over $2/beer. I bet if you charged $10/bottle so that case was $240 a significant number of people would drop out. I mean, I really want Beatification, but given the opportunity to get more than my allotment I'm not even sure I would. An allotment is already $90!
  33. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2010 Michigan

    ISO: Extra allotments of Beatification FT: Straight cash homie.
    MordorMongo likes this.
  34. stfun37

    stfun37 Initiate (46) Jan 16, 2008 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    Exactly. I love the fact that JOs dropped bottle limits. It has helped ensure that more people get bottles, and has cut down on the number of mules, from what I have seen.

    Founders made a mistake by changing the rules at the last minute, but made that call with the best of intentions.

    Seems like from here on out, the two sanest "systems" for hyped beer releases would be

    A) online reservations, where the person who reserved the bottles must pick them up in person, and/or
    B) Don't announce allocations until the actual release, when the number of bottles available can be divided by the number of folks showing up.

    As long as lines & douchey behavior are rewarded, they will continue.
    iceatalamo and northernbrews like this.
  35. iceatalamo

    iceatalamo Initiate (183) Dec 13, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I was at the KBS release on Saturday. My wife and I ended up being the last few to get some, maybe like 5 more people behind us. When I got there I for sure thought I was on the outside looking in, and I was. Even after they handed out the tickets and they ended at 625, which was about 10 people in front of me. I stuck it out and was rewarded.

    I am not going to pull the blinds over my eyes and pretend that the people in the first 300 did not have right to be upset. Sure they do. But I think after some time has passed I hope they realize it was the right thing to do. For them to claim more loyalty than someone else is absurd. This coming from the same people who it is probably their first KBS Day. I was there last year, got there at 7:30am, and was number 79. So I thought, sure more people this year, let's get there an hour early. Never did I think I would be number 630+ in line. And the line just kept growing.

    All and all I had a great time. Tried some great beers, met a bunch of cool people that traveled from all over, etc. I stayed and got a couple of beers in the tap room as well, and just enjoyed myself.

    The people in front doing all the complaining are the same ones that are trading it away and bringing "mules" with them that probably could care less about KBS and what it is all about. If I was one of those people I would argue that if they get beer it is their right to do what they want with it. I would agree. I would also argue that if I can convince someone else to stay outside with me for 10 hours, then that is also their right. I would agree. However, what they are missing is that this is Founder's release, their product, their day, so they also have the right to do whatever they want. And they choose to spread their insanely popular beer out to more people. For that I tip my hat to them. We are all supposed to be beer lovers and advocates, so it does surprise me that there is so much hate for them getting it into more people’s hands.

    I would like to thank the people that walked by us and laughed at us for staying in line. As well as the people in front of us that left because they felt like they had no chance. No love for the people that cut and screwed some people behind us that were honest.

    Also, I do not think a ticket system is the way to go. One of the things that keeps me from making more of an effort for DLD is I just can't get over that they are making me pay for the right to buy their beer. I did it for the XV Anniversary party, and just felt like I got ripped off. I really think they should say everyone line up between 9:30 and 10:30, at that time they will hand out tickets, based on how many tickets they hand out they will divide the amount of beer they have for sale by that and everyone with a ticket has the right to buy their allotment. No one would know beforehand, you take that risk. So for this year, say there were 1,000 people in line and 314 cases or 7,536 bottles, everyone would have the option to buy 7 bottles. This way there is no advantage to getting there early or waiting in line (other than sharing awesome beer with awesome
  36. steebo777

    steebo777 Zealot (511) Jun 30, 2009 Michigan

    Don't forget most people only post about the negatives. I would say more people than not had a great time all around and enjoyed other people's company. Most places I went in line everyone was smiling and making the best of the cold weather. I'm definitely glad I went.

    With how busy it was, we just hit up Hop Cat for a bit and went around GR before heading back to Founders. I didn't wanna get stabbed for allotment, so I quietly put my 9 cases in the car. More pics to come :wink:
    Rempo and GrueLurks like this.
  37. GrueLurks

    GrueLurks Initiate (0) Jul 21, 2008 Michigan

    Wait until I post the two cases I got coming without attending the event. :grinning:
  38. hopeandpoke

    hopeandpoke Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2010 Michigan

    My son and I were no. 48 & 49, and in line at around 9:30 pm Friday. We went 2 days early to celebrate his birthday and enjoy our first ever beer release. When we arrived at founders on Thursday, we asked what to expect as far as when the line might start, and what might we do to ensure we get our two cases. We were told it was a 300 case release, 1 case per person and that the line started last year around midnight. We were told that if we were not one of the 300 on line, we had little chance of getting any, although if some people did not buy their whole case a few people farther down the line may get some. In the morning at around 10:00 am as they handed us our tickets we were told the allotment was now 12 instead of a case. Bottom line is never ever take founders at their word, or what they put on their web site. They mislead 300 people, most who love Founders beer. They tarnished their good name and that sucks!
  39. steebo777

    steebo777 Zealot (511) Jun 30, 2009 Michigan

    How did they tarnish their good name? The line DID start about midnight last year. Things changed when over 1000 people showed up so they had to cut allotment. Everyone around us (101-109) expected the allotment to be cut. Breweries have been known to do it in the past so this isn't a new thing at all. I'm still not sure why people think this is such a big deal.
  40. wintbs379

    wintbs379 Aspirant (225) Mar 13, 2009 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Because 2 people NEED 48 bottles of KBS...geesh!
    TheMonk41 and vivasbeer like this.
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