KBS Statement from Founders

Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by Mattmc1973, Mar 10, 2012.

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  1. FlssmrBrewAlum

    FlssmrBrewAlum Aspirant (204) Feb 25, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Lol.. "Tarnished their good name"..

    "Mislead 300 people"...
    decadance and Tony412 like this.
  2. sacullen

    sacullen Initiate (0) Oct 14, 2008 Illinois

    This thread is even better than all the butthurt, entitled Fiona Apple fans who got shut out of Lincoln Hall here in Chicago a couple weeks ago. Reading their shit on Facebook was hilarious! The only difference is those people actually followed through and did not support LH after they added a second show and tickets were available for 45 minutes. I really wish I could believe the people who say they are done with Founders truly mean it. It's pretty sad when I have to say Fiona Apple geeks are better than beer geeks.
  3. Jerome1929

    Jerome1929 Initiate (61) Sep 11, 2008 Michigan

    I agree, this thread and the posts on founders website are hilarious. The people who got *only* 12 bottles are whining? Haha, "How dare founders cut down MY allotment". I'm glad I didn't go because it seems like a complete bitchfest. Sure, I can see how people could be frustrated without getting any beer, but if you know what KBS is you already know the insane demand it has.
  4. decadance

    decadance Initiate (0) Mar 14, 2010 Texas

    To all of those feeling butthurt, just stop spending money at founders, for founders, and cease coming to events. If you think it will touch their bottom line, you are wrong. They pleased more with their move than upset.
  5. ajthegreat

    ajthegreat Initiate (183) Nov 11, 2010 Vermont
    Beer Trader

    As far as the vast distribution outside of the state, my bottle shop in MA is getting one 4-pack. I just want to thank all of you that were bitching about this release. I just killed 45 minutes at work with a huge smile on my face and this afternoon has totally flown by, so the day wasn't a complete waste of your time after all. Cheers!
  6. hopeandpoke

    hopeandpoke Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2010 Michigan

    I agree with you decadance, and will do exactly as you suggest, with the exception of thinking I could possibly hurt their bottom line by not purchasing their beer.
  7. hopeandpoke

    hopeandpoke Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2010 Michigan

    Founders does not have any integrity!
  8. vivasbeer

    vivasbeer Initiate (0) Feb 3, 2012 Michigan

    I just can't believe someone is willing to bid up a 4 pack of KBS to $81..with 1d 3h left...just insane.

    I'm glad you only got a half a case sucka....I hope you blew two tires on the way in, and again on the way home
  9. jefeld

    jefeld Initiate (169) Mar 31, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    actually after standing for that many hours in the cold, of course you would cut your losses and take whats available. who would just walk away empty handed, whether angry or not?
  10. jeebus23

    jeebus23 Initiate (133) Mar 19, 2010 Illinois

    No, just the people that say they will never buy another Founders product again after the deceptive bate and switch tactics Founders used. I'm sure not one of those people went home empty handed.
  11. Ohsaycanyoubeer

    Ohsaycanyoubeer Initiate (0) Feb 8, 2012 Colorado

    For the most part all the complainers on this thread sound like spoiled, entitled, pretentious brats.

    Who gives a crap if your bottle count went down... it's only bottles and they are distributed. You could still have it on draft and you could still have a huge bottle share inside. You still got 12.

    You didn't hear any bitching when CCB lowered the Hunahpu limit from 3 to 2... Maybe complaining is just a Northern thing.
  12. stupac2

    stupac2 Zealot (518) Feb 22, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    Well, the cutoff for getting beer was about 5:30, right? And they opened at like 11:30? Probably took like 3 hours to get through the line, so that's about 8 hours standing in line (some people more, maybe some less). That 8 hours plus 4.50 a bottle gets you 12 bottles. So that means if someone sells all 12 bottles at $20 each they made about $23 per hour. Which is roughly the equivalent of a $41k salary. Not exactly great money, but not terrible. Either way, if you value your time more than ~$25/hour and want some KBS, not a bad way to get it.
  13. decadance

    decadance Initiate (0) Mar 14, 2010 Texas

    They also did it three days before the event.
    TATURBO likes this.
  14. Dcv

    Dcv Initiate (0) Nov 12, 2009 Michigan

    I am happy that the allotment got cut in half. I really would not have been upset if I got shut out, I knew the risk of me not getting any KBS was high based on where I was at in line, and the number of people cutting in line. However there were plenty of people outside of the first 300 that drove in from many hours away. I think for them the positive of getting a half case far outweighed the negative feelings some of the first 300 had not getting a full case.

    I was at the 2010 Dark Lord Day when they cut the bottle limit to 3, yes it sucked but I moved on with life and did not bitch about the change.

    On the other end of the spectrum, I was lucky enough to be the third person in line at the 2010 Four Elf party, it all evens out.
  15. paslaugh

    paslaugh Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2012 Illinois

    It's easy to focus on the negatives. I was a bit put off at first, but hey it's just beer and we all got to have some awesome brews that we probably hadn't tried before. That was the best part anyway. Knowing what I know now, I probably would have stayed in Chicago for the night and driven in around 5am instead.

    I really feel bad for those that drove hundreds of miles, showed up around 5am, realized that they wouldn't get a case at number 500 or so, and drove back home empty handed. Only to find out if they would have stayed in line they would have snagged half a case.

    As far as solutions for next year:

    1) Tiered allotments (First 100 get a case, next 100 get half a case, everyone else can buy a 4 pack)
    2) Less out-of-state distribution in bottles to be sure you can satisfy the demand of those who actually drive to your brewery to buy it
    3) More out-of-state kegs to loyal bars for special events (the best way to guarantee that the maximum amount of loyals get to try it)
    4) Numbered wristbands handed out at least 3-4 hours before the place opens to prevent line jumping
    5) More toilets, trash cans, and recycling bins

    Did I miss anything?
  16. stupac2

    stupac2 Zealot (518) Feb 22, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    Tiered allotment is a terrible idea. Think line cutting and camping are bad now? Just imagine if someone did that. I'll go Levitation and say if someone does a tiered allotment a fight would break out.

    I think these types of releases need to either be normal distribution (whatever's released at the brewery is silent) or all at the brewery. Breaking it up the way Founders does now is crazy.
    decadance and Steimie like this.
  17. mike409

    mike409 Aspirant (220) Jan 25, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    my wife and I were 100-101 in line arrived at 1130pm went inside for a few pints and meet a fellow ba for a trade spent the next 10 hours having arguably the best tasting of beer i have been to so far in my short time on ba/rb. also meet alot of very cool new friends and had a blast with some newer friends i have recently made from ba. also introduced my wife to the madness of beer release:slight_smile:. am i mad founders cut the allotment hell no! why? because seriously people with gas at 4 per gallon 9% of usa out of work children starving here and other countrys i am just happy to be able to buy and enjoy this great beer. founders did the most generous thing that they could maybe some of you should go check out the free beer contests from rb all last week because i thought all the "beer" people were generous? and to tell me you whould not have made the trip for 1/2 case seriously? what diffrence is 12 more beers in the grand scale of life? maybe dont pre trade next time. also i want to know from the 1-300 in line why did you show up so early when the normal arrival time last year was 6-7am? i arrived so early because i needed to be in and out so i could drive 2 hours back to work for my 3pm shift:slight_smile: so as arnold would say "STOP WHINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
    Number45forever likes this.
  18. mike409

    mike409 Aspirant (220) Jan 25, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    ok here is the solution for every one who drove 300 miles next year you need a valid michigan ID to get a case!
  19. Jparkanzky

    Jparkanzky Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2011 Ohio

    Comparing the economy of Eastern MI. to Wester MI, is like comparing Rosanne Barr's Left ass-cheek with her Right.
  20. paslaugh

    paslaugh Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2012 Illinois

    I got there so early because I wanted to party well into the night and share some great beers. I had to be back in Chicago in the early afternoon, so I figured I could sober up in the morning, buy some KBS, and be on my way back home. I had an awesome time drinking fantastic rare brews well into 3am just watching the line grow before hitting the sack. I'm really glad I was able to meet some really cool people. Mad props to Jimmy for bringing the propane patio heater. The atmosphere was electric!

    Forgot one more suggestion for Founders: Dont make people wait in lines twice. After people purchase their allotment, form a secondary number based queue that allows them to alternate turns entering the bar with the people standing in the "pub only" line. I wanted to try the Sumatra Mountain Brown, but there was no way I was going to wait in line for another two hours just to get into a bar.
  21. Jnorton00

    Jnorton00 Initiate (0) Apr 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    Infinite KBS wouldn't be enough.
  22. hopeandpoke

    hopeandpoke Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2010 Michigan

    Founders does have some of the nicest bartenders and customers any business could hope for. I got to meet a lot of really cool people and had a great time for the most part.

    I put a lot of time, money, and planning into getting this beer for my friends and family. The day of the event was not the time to change the allotment, it is just plain wrong to do to people.
  23. Ohsaycanyoubeer

    Ohsaycanyoubeer Initiate (0) Feb 8, 2012 Colorado

    Yea, and you can't get Hunahpu in distribution either

    If driving hours and hours to go to a release JUST for the stuff on draft and the social tasting atmosphere isn't enough then I think that you have the wrong hobby...
    superspak likes this.
  24. mike409

    mike409 Aspirant (220) Jan 25, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    thank you :slight_smile: founders is rated 2nd best brewery in us should be worth the 3 hour drive to have some beers in the pub plus grand rap has a shit ton of other breweries
  25. TheMonk41

    TheMonk41 Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I can safely answer ... No.
  26. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Initiate (108) Mar 14, 2011 Michigan

    If they really wanted to "please everyone," why wasn't the allotment reduced to 6 or 8 beers? 1 or 2? At what point does it become rediculous?

    I don't think some people understand the "first come, first served" idea. Just because you came at a certain time last year doesn't mean that you can come around that time this year and then be pissed you didn't get any. All of the "cutoff times" being talked about are purely speculation at how many people will be in line.

    I waited 10 hours for KBS because I wanted to ensure that I got a case. I knew if I came back the next morning, there would be no way I would be one of the first 300, especially after you factor in the line cutters. I am in no way saying that I am unappreciative of what I received or that I regret going because I "only got half a case".

    The only thing that I ask is that Founders keeps true to their word in the future. I do believe that there was enough forethought here that people could have been warned at least slightly ahead of time (630 pre-printed numbers; 100 people lined up by midnight the night before, etc). I probably would have tried to sleep at least an hour or two if I had known that I could be 500 people back and still get some.

    Other than being slightly dissappointed at my unneeded lack of sleep, I had a great time with some great people. I would love to hang out with a lot of you guys again; I just don't know if I will go on a 36 hour bender again just to ensure I get some limited-release beer.

    I will say that I am slightly apprehensive about going to this event again though. I mean, who's to say that this won't happen again? And at what point would it not be worth it between the lack of sleep/gas money/travel time/etc? I might just stick to local tastings if I want to hang out with like minded people without investing too much time and money.
  27. Jose2412

    Jose2412 Initiate (86) Feb 25, 2012 Michigan

    I'm pretty sure they had the capability to print more tickets if they needed them. They didn't exactly look professionally made.

    I for one decided not to wear my tinfoil hat and believe that this was a decision made that morning, not a premeditated attempt to mislead their loyal followers.
  28. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Initiate (108) Mar 14, 2011 Michigan

    Yeah, I don't feel "betrayed" or "stabbed in the back" or anything like a few of the people on here. I do believe that they had good intentions for what they did and in the end, 300 people will more than likely quit their whinning and keep buying Founders soon.
    I'm just saying that a little bit of advanced notice would have been a much more ideal situation. I just don't want to invest in a situation where the end result could still be uncertain.
    Even if it was anounced ahead of time that it was a limit of 6 beers, I probably would have gone anyway. Would I have gotten in line at 1 am? Hell no.
    nanobrew likes this.
  29. decadance

    decadance Initiate (0) Mar 14, 2010 Texas

    You sound sensible sir, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
    nanobrew likes this.
  30. Jose2412

    Jose2412 Initiate (86) Feb 25, 2012 Michigan

    I agree, if they would have cut the allotment a week ahead of time I'm sure it would have alleviated alot of the headaches with everyone getting there so early in the morning.
  31. biga7346

    biga7346 Aspirant (295) Jun 19, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    There is literally nothing I can add to this post at this point, all great points on both sides. From a personal standpoint, I arrived precisely at 6 a.m., met some awesome people, shared some awesome beers and thank god Founders accounted for the people who couldn't waste a day or more of their lives to fucking camp out in the freezing weather for some beer (somebody cue the beating the dead horse animation) IT'S JUST BEER!!! From what I was told b/c my amazing wife was standing in the taproom line starting about 10, she said all of the people in those Bears tents who had gotten there at 4 p.m. on Friday were all drinking Coors light...hmmm, that's a head scratcher. Oh wait, no it isn't. But seriously, for those who camped out b/c they do love KBS and were looking to drink/share/trade, I understand that would be frustrating to all of a sudden get your allotment slashed after freezing your rear ends off for most of the night. Summary = fucking great time, cheers!
    raymo55 likes this.
  32. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Initiate (108) Mar 14, 2011 Michigan

    Sensible? I did attend WMU....
  33. decadance

    decadance Initiate (0) Mar 14, 2010 Texas

    Then I may have to revoke my previous claim:wink:
    JohnB87 likes this.
  34. BeRanger

    BeRanger Devotee (433) Dec 11, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Has anyone heard from Kzoobrew?
  35. Gonzoillini

    Gonzoillini Meyvn (1,144) Oct 15, 2008 Illinois

    I can safely report that the Mayor of Michigan is alive and well, and hopefully recovered from Friday / Saturday.

    Nothing to really add at this point (YeahNateNelson summed up my thoughts much more eloquently than I could have), but I did enjoy meeting some great people (Decadence, Kzoobrew, the IL crew standing next to us in line (numbers 305-310 or so), drinking some great beers, and having some great food (huge thanks to SolarMikey for the amazing cupcakes, and the great guys who were about #350 with the griddle making French toast and sausages).

    Highlight of the day might have been stopping near the IN border with Imperialking to share a Captain Fantasy / Big John while watching the waves from Lake Michigan break over the beach.

    Not the perfect day, but I certainly don't regret going and enjoying everyone's company. Hopefully my requests to have the campers start condensing the line, and politely asking folks to keep an eye out for line cutters did some good.

  36. iceatalamo

    iceatalamo Initiate (183) Dec 13, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Just a couple more comments:

    When did cutting the line become acceptable?

    Where are all the people from that are saying how freezing it was outside??? Shit, it felt like summer to me out there!
  37. atone315

    atone315 Savant (933) Oct 8, 2008 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    Read over most of this thread, sounds like there was fun to be had before, and after, the opening of the release party. It also sounds like there was an equal amount of childish behavior, although people do tend to talk more about the negative....so, I guess it realistically was 2/3 good, 1/3 shit (and I am sure I know where a majority of those people came from, I live in WI).

    So, I guess there is only one thing I don't understand. A 12 pk of beer is the difference between someone loving & someone hating a brewery?
    adamdd and decadance like this.
  38. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Initiate (108) Mar 14, 2011 Michigan

    So what if Founder's said that next year, nobody in line will be allowed to drink in an effort to reduce the campers? (Since I believe it is technically against the law anyway, I may be wrong.)
    Some people are quick to say "eff Founders," but realize that this whole thing is quite a privilege.
  39. tlh1005

    tlh1005 Initiate (0) Oct 1, 2009 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    That is what I am trying to understand. How is it that people are cutting in-line? What excuse are they using, or are they simply doing it assuming no one will stand-up to them? If so, that is just a situation waiting to come to an ugly end when you mix tired people, alcohol, and anger.
  40. RyanMM

    RyanMM Initiate (169) Mar 12, 2009 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Founders has really blundered their last few releases, and I say that as someone who didn't waste time in the freezing cold waiting for their loaf of bread.

    If they cared about their real fans, they would hold off distribution and wait until they sold every last drop at the brewhouse before sending any to the other corners of the US.

    That's just smart business. They had 1000 people in line, that means they could have sold 1000 or MORE cases (I'm sure some people would have happily bought more than a case!)

    Instead, they kept 315 cases for themselves and sent thousands of cases outside of the state at a lower profit margin than the ones they could sell themselves.

    WTF are they smoking?
    nanobrew and Vav like this.
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