KBS Statement from Founders

Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by Mattmc1973, Mar 10, 2012.

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  1. paslaugh

    paslaugh Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2012 Illinois

    The problem is when one guy gets in line at 4am and then the rest of his crew shows up at 9:30am. That was were I saw the most line jumping. Even at the front of the line, I saw about 5 people in the Bears tarp fort, then the next morning there were suddenly a dozen. Leaves a bad taste in one's mouth.
  2. paslaugh

    paslaugh Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2012 Illinois

    For all of those that want to hate on the campers: Most of us towards the front of the line (first 50 or so) asked permission of Founders staff to set up tents and they had no issue with it. Nor did GR police when they stopped in around 11:30 or so. Take your Haterade and sour grapes someplace else.
  3. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Initiate (108) Mar 14, 2011 Michigan

    My grapes weren't sour until you just made them that way, but I guess I could see how you could take that post the wrong way. I was incenuating that the public drinking and intoxication was illegal, not the camping out. I just wanted to point out that of all the bitching and complaining, people don't realize that Founders has the ability the take the fun out of it at any point.
  4. paslaugh

    paslaugh Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2012 Illinois

    I agree man, especially about the people smoking the hippie lettuce and generally embarrassing themselves in line late into the night (especially that guy that vomited all over the urinal). It just seems like lots of people on here have been consistently hating on the campers when the message from Founders staff was that it was acceptable.
  5. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Initiate (108) Mar 14, 2011 Michigan

    On a lighter note, I took a duece in the port-a-potty and there will never be enough showers in the world to get me to forget about that splashback....
    jacob4999 likes this.
  6. tlh1005

    tlh1005 Initiate (0) Oct 1, 2009 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    Based on that logic Founders should just inflate the price of KBS since the market can support it. They're NOT trying to make as much money as they can as soon as possible. They want to provide different opportunities for different people to enjoy their beer. Whether you agree with the allotment change or not, going to a bottle release doesn't make you a "real fan". I am sure some portion of that 1000 person line are more fans of eBay and trade bait than they are a "fan" of Founders.
    mike409 and Tony412 like this.
  7. Vav

    Vav Aspirant (291) Jul 27, 2008 Illinois

    So long as the machine keeps being fed, the machine will grind on.
  8. RyanMM

    RyanMM Initiate (169) Mar 12, 2009 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    That's real handy, assuming that. If it helps you sleep at night, so be it. I doubt that any significant portion of the people who drive hundreds of miles to be there on release day are eBaying it.

    As for Founders making money, this isn't an all-or-nothing proposition. Founders can supply the demand, at a price they're comfortable with, AND make more money in the process. That's called a win-win.
  9. tripledbrew

    tripledbrew Devotee (434) Dec 2, 2011 Kentucky

    My friends and I drove nine hours and were in line by 3:45AM that morning. The lowest number in my group was 331. Prior to the numbers be given out, we felt that it was highly possible that we may not get any KBS. We had heard that there was only 300-330 cases. I hate that this has created bad feelings among people, but I'm just happy that we didnt drive nine hours ,spend all that money, and end up empty handed.
    iceatalamo likes this.
  10. SHCC

    SHCC Initiate (0) Feb 22, 2012 Massachusetts

    Founders won't have a problem selling any of their KBS at whatever price they want, and just because people are lining up outside the brewery doesn't mean that those are the people a company wants to sell to.

    The issue that these beer companies run into, as I mentioned earlier, is keeping real fans happy. There are real fans in Michigan, but living in Michigan or being able to drive to the brewery doesn't make you a real fan. I know people that practically live next to a brewery and don't care at all about the brewery unless someone is giving them a way to get something (beer trade value, eBay) or someone is passing out a free beer. I also know people who live far away from a brewery and still spend a ton of money on a specific company's beers. Guess who is more valuable to Founders? It doesn't matter if you live in Grand Rapids and only get KBS/CBS/Better Half or live in Boston and only buy KBS/CBS/Better Half, it doesn't matter if you camp ten hours to spend less than $100 or know the local beer guy and spend $20, Founders suffers when people take away the inventory of their hard-to-get-beers from their top customers, especially if these releases are viewed as a large enough incentive. Someone is going to buy KBS. The difficulty is figuring out how to get those customers the beer.

    Eventually, beer companies are going to have to figure a way their best customers and give them first opportunity to get limited releases. Visit the brewery for three events and get a pass to the KBS release, maybe hide Golden Tickets in Dirty Bastard to get a ticket to the KBS release, maybe figure something else out. At the end of the day, give that guy who spends $1000+ on Founders a year first chance to get something rather than the person who spends $50-$100. That is good business.
    TATURBO and decadance like this.
  11. stupac2

    stupac2 Zealot (518) Feb 22, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    Just curious, but how much does an 18-hour round trip cost? The government's reimbursement rate is $0.51 per mile, which is supposed to cover gas and maintenance/depreciation. If 9 hours is like 400 miles (could easily be more) then that's over $400 for the trip. If there were four of you (you didn't say) and you got 12 bottles each, then that's over $8.00 onto each bottle...

    I know you go for the experience, to some extent, but for this release it just seems extreme to me...
  12. chpueblo22

    chpueblo22 Initiate (162) Oct 4, 2007 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Guy from Illinois puking out of side of car for 2+ hours at 8am. That is all.
  13. adamant1912

    adamant1912 Disciple (371) Jan 10, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    My wonderful girlfriend and some of my friends got to Founder's at 6am. She got ticket #625 (which was pretty much the last) and I couldn't be happier that they decided to allow only a half case. While this went against the original plan, I think the fact that an extra 300+ people ended up with some KBS was great. For those that showed up and camped out 12 or so hours for some beer..this shows dedication, but not everyone can do that. Sharing is caring, and like Founder's says, "Brewed by us, enjoyed by EVERYONE."
  14. tlh1005

    tlh1005 Initiate (0) Oct 1, 2009 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    Why so defensive? To quote exactly, I said, "SOME portion" but you're responding like I made an irrational assumption or generalization about everyone there. I'm only responding to your implication that selling as much as possible at the brewhouse equates to getting the beer into the hands of "real fans".

    We just have to agree to disagree with what makes more business sense. In my book, whatever revenue Founders can make by selling a majority if not all at the taproom is eclipsed by value they gain by distributing the beer and growing the brand.
  15. atone315

    atone315 Savant (933) Oct 8, 2008 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    For what it's worth....I counted roughly 70 bottles of KBS for sale/ completed sales on ebay, as of this morning. I believe this is 1% of total allotment available @ at the brewery?
  16. MarcatGSB

    MarcatGSB Initiate (0) Jan 8, 2011 Michigan

    This thread makes my Peruvian Morning's taste that much better! Cheers! Thanks Allen.
  17. jrags8

    jrags8 Initiate (0) Jun 9, 2010 Michigan

    I think there is a bit of a flaw in the brewery only sales logic. Yes, Founders can probably squeeze out every penny by selling at the taproom only, but I have to believe that the inclusion of KBS, seasonals (IS, BS, Harvest Ale, etc.), and the Backstage series is probably getting them into or at least favor with a lot of distributors and accounts. I work for a large food and beverage company. We run many products that make little or no profit and don't discontinue them because many are tied to distribution of the profitable materials.

    I believe the reason they don't sell all the limited beers at the brewery is the same as the reason that it costs the same at the brewery as it does at the store down the street; they don't want to undercut or destroy relationships with their distributors that put their product on the shelves for them every other day of the year.

    (Full disclosure - living near the brewery, I would easily benefit if they went taproom only or only distributed to MI as has been discussed.)
    tlh1005 likes this.
  18. tlh1005

    tlh1005 Initiate (0) Oct 1, 2009 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    That is definitely the only way we can measure this sort of thing, but I imagine that number will increase significantly seeing as how it's only been three days, plus the bottom feeders know that flooding the market will net them less. This same phenomenon happens in the print buying community. Also there isn't a great way to quantify those who are overwhelmingly purchasing for trade bait.
  19. atone315

    atone315 Savant (933) Oct 8, 2008 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    I was thinking EXACTLY the same....and you can buy (2) 4 pks for $20!!!
    mike409 likes this.
  20. steebo777

    steebo777 Zealot (511) Jun 30, 2009 Michigan

    I take it you didn't go to the Better Half release? Quite possibly the best and easiest release I have ever been to.

    And it still isn't as good as KBS, you get what you pay for. :wink:
    mike409 likes this.
  21. FlssmrBrewAlum

    FlssmrBrewAlum Aspirant (204) Feb 25, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I'm pretty sure beer releases (Everywhere) need to start going this way soon.

    Eliminate camping out, eliminate drinking in line, eliminate the party atmosphere that apparently now starts on the property the night before.. I bet you see a lot of these issues fixed (Except of course, line cutting.. that's a harder sell).
  22. jacob4999

    jacob4999 Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2008 Michigan

    Good lord that sucks bro! Lol No way I would have sat on those portajon seats! you should have went to the bus station..
  23. weatherdog

    weatherdog Initiate (0) Nov 7, 2007 Illinois

    So what you mean is take all the fun out of the releases. You sound like a guy I'd love to have a drink with.
  24. NSaad23

    NSaad23 Initiate (0) Dec 13, 2011 Michigan

    That's a tough call man, Port-a-jon where you know that like minded individuals have been using it for a short period of time or Bus Station public toilet, where Lord only knows what type of people have been using it....
  25. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Initiate (108) Mar 14, 2011 Michigan

    After a belly full of BK breakfast and a bunch of barrel aged dark beers, it just wasn't gonna happen. I don't know if I can ever forgive myself....
  26. FlssmrBrewAlum

    FlssmrBrewAlum Aspirant (204) Feb 25, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I'm telling it how it is. It can't go on forever.. it keeps getting bigger and more ridiculous. You can ignore it all you want, but someone is going to have to address it sooner rather than later.
  27. weatherdog

    weatherdog Initiate (0) Nov 7, 2007 Illinois

    I'm sure you're right that somewhere there will be a tipping point. At that point I'll really stop going to releases. I know we disagree on this point as we argued over the Hi-Fi release, but once I'm not allowed a bottle share in a release line I'll stop going. I know I'm not the only once who feels this way as well. Bottle shares are well over 50% of the reason I go to these things.

    I arrived at Founders at midnight because a friend had an extra spot in his car and I figured why not. I had a horrible time for most of the entire night because it was so cold and at that point I didn't care about the beer. Once the morning came and I warmed up a little and the bottle share started it was great and I had an awesome latter half of the day. So I guess for me my limit is somewhere around standing around sharing beer for 5-6 hours before I become miserable and swear off ever arriving any earlier.

    I said this same thing in the Hi-Fi thread and it applies here as well. Once craft beer releases becomes work I will stop doing them. The Hi-Fi release was perfect, and I'll continue doing those for as long as possible. The KBS release was work to me, so I won't go next year unless the system changes.

    We all have our breaking points and I just know where mine is.
    Corbet likes this.
  28. Corbet

    Corbet Initiate (164) Nov 7, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I can only hope Founders does the rest of their Backstage releases are on a weekday.
  29. oreo

    oreo Initiate (0) Jul 29, 2010 Illinois

    I agree. Most of the time I could care less about the beer. The line itself is the fun part of the day. Once breweries start putting the axe to that, I will not be attending. So that's two less people. :grinning:
  30. FlssmrBrewAlum

    FlssmrBrewAlum Aspirant (204) Feb 25, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Craft beer already is "work".

    I just find it odd that you draw the line at whether you are able to share or not share beer.

    I really think it's the fact that many people turn releases into 5 AM parties (or night before camp out parties) that craft beer has become "work" to many of the others in this hobby (and let's not even get into the mess of distributed beers, people following trucks, taking time off of work to go to a liquor store at open, getting on more lists than I could ever imagine having time to do, etc). Yet, you equate work as not being able to drink in line.

    I really think we agree on some things.. but obviously, there are some key differences we differ on.
  31. decadance

    decadance Initiate (0) Mar 14, 2010 Texas

    I share the sentiment of the "end sharing in line and I will stop going" crowd.
  32. weatherdog

    weatherdog Initiate (0) Nov 7, 2007 Illinois

    I think it's fine that you've found your personal line where it has gotten ridiculous.

    To me yes, the line is whether or not I can drink and share beer in line with friends. i know I'm not alone in this either. I have grown to love the people of craft beer more than the beer itself. I have an amazing group on friends who i have met through Beer Advocate. When I moved to Chicago 3.5 years ago I did not know a soul in the area. Now I feel like I can call the member of my tasting group some of my closest friends. This craft beer thing has gotten to be much more bigger than just about the beer.

    There are some cool ass people in craft beer, some of which because of logistics or distance I only get to see a few times a year, either at release parties/ festivals or large tastings. I'll be damned if the few times a year I get to see these fine folks I cannot share a beer with them.
    TATURBO likes this.
  33. FlssmrBrewAlum

    FlssmrBrewAlum Aspirant (204) Feb 25, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    And maybe that's one of those key differences.. you hang with BA Folk. A lot of them. And BA members flock to these things.

    I generally hang with industry folk, a slew RBers, a good many people that aren't on either community(CBS), and a couple BAs..

    I think it's great you love sharing a beer with all those BA Friends in line.. I have opened my fair share of beer in lines with RBers and a few BAs over the years. It's good fun. But you are essentially making an argument to eliminate bottle shares, no? Especially for breweries that can't/don't want to handle the increased traffic, craziness, hassle, attendance for releases they are seeing.. "I'm not even here for the beer, I'm here to share my own beer on the brewery's property for free. I wouldn't be here if I couldn't.".. perhaps that is a piece of information you should keep on the down low going forward.. should you hope to preserve the practice.
    Vav likes this.
  34. iceatalamo

    iceatalamo Initiate (183) Dec 13, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I'm gonna agree 100% with weatherdog. Getting in line for a beer release at 5am is not that bad if I am there sharing beer with people and having a good 'ol time. If you take that away from me I am not sure I go.

    I'm already not looking forward to the BA Pt5th release at the 4 Elf party next year.
  35. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Initiate (108) Mar 14, 2011 Michigan

    If they let people relax and actually enjoy the party and then just call numbers, I think that would have been the perfect release party. Tons of great beer, great people and great food. It was just dumb to have to stand in line after you're already inside the party.
  36. iceatalamo

    iceatalamo Initiate (183) Dec 13, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I agree. No beer sharing, but they opened up the brewery....if people thought KBS Day was cold, they have no idea.

    They just needed to check the tokens when you got to the front, way too much cutting going on. It was my first time at the party, but it was real cool, and had a tremendous tap list.
  37. CBlack85

    CBlack85 Crusader (703) Jul 12, 2009 South Carolina
    Beer Trader

    agreed. They are a bunch of book cooking, bait & switching, ponzi schemers!!!
  38. raymo55

    raymo55 Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    You stood in line while drinking from one of the best taplists that one brewery could even think of putting together! 4 Elf party was VERY smooth!

    And from what I have heard.....there will be no BB Plead the 5th in 2012!
  39. raymo55

    raymo55 Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    And I think I should write down everyones name who is complaining about this release and writing off Founders....you will all be the same ones buying KBS when it hits shelves...trading for CBS, and standing in line at the next big beer release!!!

    See ya there
  40. tlh1005

    tlh1005 Initiate (0) Oct 1, 2009 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    That is all petty crime. By far the worst offense was Founders sending around chain letters at the KBS release.
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