KBS Statement from Founders

Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by Mattmc1973, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Mar 14, 2011 Michigan

    After a belly full of BK breakfast and a bunch of barrel aged dark beers, it just wasn't gonna happen. I don't know if I can ever forgive myself....
  2. FlssmrBrewAlum

    FlssmrBrewAlum Feb 25, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    I'm telling it how it is. It can't go on forever.. it keeps getting bigger and more ridiculous. You can ignore it all you want, but someone is going to have to address it sooner rather than later.
  3. weatherdog

    weatherdog Nov 7, 2007 Illinois

    I'm sure you're right that somewhere there will be a tipping point. At that point I'll really stop going to releases. I know we disagree on this point as we argued over the Hi-Fi release, but once I'm not allowed a bottle share in a release line I'll stop going. I know I'm not the only once who feels this way as well. Bottle shares are well over 50% of the reason I go to these things.

    I arrived at Founders at midnight because a friend had an extra spot in his car and I figured why not. I had a horrible time for most of the entire night because it was so cold and at that point I didn't care about the beer. Once the morning came and I warmed up a little and the bottle share started it was great and I had an awesome latter half of the day. So I guess for me my limit is somewhere around standing around sharing beer for 5-6 hours before I become miserable and swear off ever arriving any earlier.

    I said this same thing in the Hi-Fi thread and it applies here as well. Once craft beer releases becomes work I will stop doing them. The Hi-Fi release was perfect, and I'll continue doing those for as long as possible. The KBS release was work to me, so I won't go next year unless the system changes.

    We all have our breaking points and I just know where mine is.
    Corbet likes this.
  4. Corbet

    Corbet Nov 7, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I can only hope Founders does the rest of their Backstage releases are on a weekday.
  5. oreo

    oreo Jul 29, 2010 Illinois

    I agree. Most of the time I could care less about the beer. The line itself is the fun part of the day. Once breweries start putting the axe to that, I will not be attending. So that's two less people. :D
  6. FlssmrBrewAlum

    FlssmrBrewAlum Feb 25, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Craft beer already is "work".

    I just find it odd that you draw the line at whether you are able to share or not share beer.

    I really think it's the fact that many people turn releases into 5 AM parties (or night before camp out parties) that craft beer has become "work" to many of the others in this hobby (and let's not even get into the mess of distributed beers, people following trucks, taking time off of work to go to a liquor store at open, getting on more lists than I could ever imagine having time to do, etc). Yet, you equate work as not being able to drink in line.

    I really think we agree on some things.. but obviously, there are some key differences we differ on.
  7. decadance

    decadance Mar 14, 2010 Texas

    I share the sentiment of the "end sharing in line and I will stop going" crowd.
  8. weatherdog

    weatherdog Nov 7, 2007 Illinois

    I think it's fine that you've found your personal line where it has gotten ridiculous.

    To me yes, the line is whether or not I can drink and share beer in line with friends. i know I'm not alone in this either. I have grown to love the people of craft beer more than the beer itself. I have an amazing group on friends who i have met through Beer Advocate. When I moved to Chicago 3.5 years ago I did not know a soul in the area. Now I feel like I can call the member of my tasting group some of my closest friends. This craft beer thing has gotten to be much more bigger than just about the beer.

    There are some cool ass people in craft beer, some of which because of logistics or distance I only get to see a few times a year, either at release parties/ festivals or large tastings. I'll be damned if the few times a year I get to see these fine folks I cannot share a beer with them.
    TATURBO likes this.
  9. FlssmrBrewAlum

    FlssmrBrewAlum Feb 25, 2009 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    And maybe that's one of those key differences.. you hang with BA Folk. A lot of them. And BA members flock to these things.

    I generally hang with industry folk, a slew RBers, a good many people that aren't on either community(CBS), and a couple BAs..

    I think it's great you love sharing a beer with all those BA Friends in line.. I have opened my fair share of beer in lines with RBers and a few BAs over the years. It's good fun. But you are essentially making an argument to eliminate bottle shares, no? Especially for breweries that can't/don't want to handle the increased traffic, craziness, hassle, attendance for releases they are seeing.. "I'm not even here for the beer, I'm here to share my own beer on the brewery's property for free. I wouldn't be here if I couldn't.".. perhaps that is a piece of information you should keep on the down low going forward.. should you hope to preserve the practice.
    Vav likes this.
  10. iceatalamo

    iceatalamo Dec 13, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I'm gonna agree 100% with weatherdog. Getting in line for a beer release at 5am is not that bad if I am there sharing beer with people and having a good 'ol time. If you take that away from me I am not sure I go.

    I'm already not looking forward to the BA Pt5th release at the 4 Elf party next year.
  11. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Mar 14, 2011 Michigan

    If they let people relax and actually enjoy the party and then just call numbers, I think that would have been the perfect release party. Tons of great beer, great people and great food. It was just dumb to have to stand in line after you're already inside the party.
  12. iceatalamo

    iceatalamo Dec 13, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    I agree. No beer sharing, but they opened up the brewery....if people thought KBS Day was cold, they have no idea.

    They just needed to check the tokens when you got to the front, way too much cutting going on. It was my first time at the party, but it was real cool, and had a tremendous tap list.
  13. CBlack85

    CBlack85 Jul 12, 2009 South Carolina
    Beer Trader

    agreed. They are a bunch of book cooking, bait & switching, ponzi schemers!!!
  14. raymo55

    raymo55 Oct 3, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    You stood in line while drinking from one of the best taplists that one brewery could even think of putting together! 4 Elf party was VERY smooth!

    And from what I have heard.....there will be no BB Plead the 5th in 2012!
  15. raymo55

    raymo55 Oct 3, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    And I think I should write down everyones name who is complaining about this release and writing off Founders....you will all be the same ones buying KBS when it hits shelves...trading for CBS, and standing in line at the next big beer release!!!

    See ya there
  16. tlh1005

    tlh1005 Oct 1, 2009 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    That is all petty crime. By far the worst offense was Founders sending around chain letters at the KBS release.
  17. Mattmc1973

    Mattmc1973 Jun 4, 2008 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Nah, the secret Russian Roulette game in the brew house takes the cake. Making people risk shooting themselves for a chance at an extra case...for shame!
  18. steebo777

    steebo777 Jun 30, 2009 Michigan

    Really? I thought 4Elf party was one of the worst releases I have ever been to (KBS included). If I would've not waited in line and just enjoyed the taplist at 4Elf, I would've had more fun.
  19. maltmaster420

    maltmaster420 Aug 17, 2005 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    Wow. I don't think I've ever seen so much concentrated butthurt in one thread before. Thanks for the entertaining read!
    crossovert likes this.
  20. travMI13

    travMI13 Jan 7, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Are you serious about BB PT5? Boo. Amateur hour on my part for not buying more. I was fairly sane and believe I only bought 12 or 16 bottles. That was incredibly stupid of me.

    And yeah, 4Elf was sweet. I enjoyed it a lot. Only complaint (and this is on me): we should have gotten a hotel room and taken a cab so I didn't need to DD and could have tried more. The fact that they were pouring full pints of all of their high gravity beers for 4 or 5 bucks (!) made for a potentially bad situation. It also made for a great time.
  21. Corbet

    Corbet Nov 7, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Wow... that sucks. Looks like I need to hold onto my last remaining 4-pack then. Hopefully they have something else released in bottles for their 4Elf Party.
  22. MarcatGSB

    MarcatGSB Jan 8, 2011 Michigan

    Why didn't you just do both?
  23. MarcatGSB

    MarcatGSB Jan 8, 2011 Michigan

    It may not, no, but I didn't have to drive 9 hours (in my own state), to get a beer that isn't distributed in my area (in my own state), only to come home with a half a case of said beer. I love Founder's beer, don't get me wrong, but when I as a restaurant/liquor license holder, in the State of MI can't even get a 1/6th barrel of Centennial IPA, yet I see Red's Ale House in Iowa City Iowa has KBS, Better Half, Breakfast Stout, and Double Trouble for the roll out of Founders (into ANOTHER state), I just get frustrated. And instead of bitching about it, I'll just enjoy beer that is on my door step so to speak.
  24. steebo777

    steebo777 Jun 30, 2009 Michigan

    Because I was fending off the line jumpers and trying to drink at the same time. Even though I was number 74 in line, it took 2.5hrs to end up buying my beer. Definitely was not a fun release.
  25. Corbet

    Corbet Nov 7, 2010 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Man that sucks... the people around us were really cool and my girlfriend kept leaving the line to bring everybody beer and snacks. Good times.
  26. hopeandpoke

    hopeandpoke Feb 7, 2010 Michigan

    Felt bad for the girls having to use the porta potty's, they stunk as bad as founders cutting the allotment!
  27. BeRanger

    BeRanger Dec 11, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Raymo is spreading filthy lies in an attempt to corner the BA PT5 market!
  28. raymo55

    raymo55 Oct 3, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    HAHA....that would be a great idea!

    But I just got a responce from them via Facebook that they will being bottling more and releasing it at the 4Elf party again this year!!!

    But they will probably "bait and switch" all of the "travelers" the day of the party, so maybe they should all just stay home!
    sarro, travMI13, decadance and 2 others like this.
  29. dlello2

    dlello2 Nov 11, 2011 Illinois

    The 4 Elf party was my first release ever and I had a fucking fantastic time. I'd go again just for the company and taplist!
    sarro and raymo55 like this.
  30. BeRanger

    BeRanger Dec 11, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    The taplist was outstanding but the fact that they were 16oz pours were unreal. My buddy was the DD so I had to finish the drinks he wanted to try but couldnt finish. As a result, like most people I pretty much unintentionally blacked out.

    I really hope they'd allow people to drink in line next year but good lord, if KBS is any sort of judge to what is going to be happening at releases, it could be a nightmare.

    I want some more King of the Forest, Smells like Weed and the Cherry Bourbon one that I cant remember the name for.
  31. MarcatGSB

    MarcatGSB Jan 8, 2011 Michigan

    That is unfortunate that you didn't enjoy yourself, and had to deal with people who were there for the wrong reasons...
    We weren't too far ahead of you, numbers 31-35, had a great time, sampled quite a few of the many tap offerings, got our case limits, enjoyed some of the great food, and music. Maybe next year if I show up at 9 and there are 100 people there waiting, I will have different thoughts on the event, but last years was a success IMO.
  32. MarcatGSB

    MarcatGSB Jan 8, 2011 Michigan

    Mmmm Bourbon Barrel Cherry Triple Sapient, me want more! That was so good, and the first beer to disappear.
  33. BeRanger

    BeRanger Dec 11, 2011 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    31-35? I think we met - I was I think 39 thanks to a few guys from Chicago who hooked me up with one of their numbers since their buddy wasnt feeling good. Nice upgrade from 130 :)
  34. SteelersX

    SteelersX Jan 30, 2011 New York
    Beer Trader

    Man - In 2008 I was third in line out of three people at 10:45am
    Went in had three beers and a sandwich before buying four cases.
    The year after that the beer sold out by 2:30 pm. still got there are 10 and no problems getting beer.

    I wont ever attend this even again not because it's Founders fault but because people are "crazy" (being nice) enough to wait over night in freezing weather for beer.

    At least I'm young enough to remember the good ole days.

    My younger friend got out of work at 9PM friday, drove 9 hours to get in line first thing in the morning, and got shut out.
  35. travMI13

    travMI13 Jan 7, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    For the record, I was the DD who kept feeding NPH drinks. If you can picture an NPH lookalike with bloodshot eyes and unintelligible speech, that is what it looked like, only funnier. I'm just glad he didn't puke in my car. Good times.

    For the record, Bourbon Homosapien Cherry Trip Ale is one of the best beers I have ever had to date. I want that again.
    raymo55 likes this.
  36. SteelersX

    SteelersX Jan 30, 2011 New York
    Beer Trader

    Standing out all night in the cold for beer does not make you any more of a fan than anyone else.
    It makes you .........
    anyone else can fill in the rest.
  37. nanobrew

    nanobrew Dec 31, 2008 California

    I think a lot of people are putting blame in the wrong place. This is how I see it.

    Founder fault: Cutting allotments last minute. I understand that they want to spread the beer to people who show up, but they could do this by not distributing the beer so thinly. Also, they should have informed people right away, both those whose allotments were cut and those who didn't have a chance at getting any.

    Attendees Fault: Allowing cutting. Sure Founders can do some other things to eliminate this (hand out numbered tickets earlier), but overall the responsibility lies on the beer community. Allowing people to cut is plain wrong, i don't care if it is "just one person" or what other excuses you have, your "effort" does not deserve you to move ahead of others.

    Just the way it is: Some of you had to drive insane distances and camp at night. That was your choice, and you got the beer (unfortunately not as much as you thought) as long as you were the first 300. If you showed up after the first 300, honestly, you did not deserve the beer. Sure, it is nice if you got some, count yourself lucky, but it was at the expense of others. If this meant you had to get there at 2am to be the first 300, then that is the way it is. Is that crazy, and not "fair" to your circumstances...maybe, but not everything is fair and equal. Special releases are getting crazier, but that is life. You knew the "rules" ahead of time, the amount of effort you want to put into getting the beer is up to you. But be aware, that at some point your effort may not be good enough to get some.

    Solutions? Founders needs to A) lower bottle limits, or B) not distribute as much, or C) not do a bottle release at the brewery, just have it on tap, or D) some combination. Lastly, as a general rule... don't be assholes. Everyone is there to have a good time, don't get selfish and ruin some's experience by cutting or doing some other jerk move.
    JohnB87 likes this.
  38. crossovert

    crossovert Mar 29, 2009 Illinois

    Founders should just distribute all the KBS to a liquor store in Flin Flon and make people go out there and get it.
  39. dblab33

    dblab33 Dec 9, 2011 Michigan

    Hey nano, so what about those that were in the first 300 but somehow ended up being in the 400s when tickets came out? They didn't deserve the beer? Can't say I agree with that.
  40. nanobrew

    nanobrew Dec 31, 2008 California

    That is not at all what I said. I stated one of the problems is cutters. The first 300 people should be the first 300 people. Cutters fall into the asshole category, this is an issue that needs to be addressed.

    The solution is not to say "to make up for cutters we will cut allotments in half to make sure those who did show up early enough get some". The solution is for the community to stop allowing cutters (whether you are the one cutting, allowing a friend to cut, or see someone cut and not say anything) and for breweries to help come up with a system that limits/eliminates cutting.
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