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KBS trade value etiquette

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by FrankHammer, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. FrankHammer

    FrankHammer Jan 31, 2013 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Just wondering what the etiquette is with trading KBS that you purchased for inflated prices? Say, I paid $8 for my KBS per bottle because I didn't get it at the release, is that what I can expect back $4$ or do I have to stick with the $5 release price and just eat the extra money in favor of being a solid BA?
  2. Rempo

    Rempo Jan 18, 2010 Indiana

    Work it out with your trade partner.
    Pahn, OtisCampbell, funhog and 11 others like this.
  3. gory4d

    gory4d Apr 14, 2007 New York
    Beer Trader

    I think the average price will end up being something like $7, but what's a dollar or two among friends? - that is, the price at Founders doesn't have to be your guide, but those who paid $12 a bottle probably shouldn't expect quite that much in return.
  4. Creetoper

    Creetoper Jul 7, 2011 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    Just do your best not to be a dick about it and things should work out fine.
    podunkparte, M1A2, chardlogic and 8 others like this.
  5. griffeyb

    griffeyb Oct 15, 2010 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    No way should one have to trade what the brewery sells it at. When the brewery sells their beer, it is at a hugely reduced rate. Plus people had to buy tickets just to able to buy the beer, as is the case for DLD, Founders, etc. All things should be considered in the cost of a beer, and thus its trade value. But this thought should also be tempered by the caveat that the trade value can't be WHATEVER you paid. If you got bent over and had to pay $10/bottle, then you should still be bent over when trading the beer. Don't bend somebody else over because you chose to buy a beer at an insanely gouged price.

    Shirt answer: $6/bottle is pretty much going to be the average price if you were buying it.
  6. Jnorton00

    Jnorton00 Apr 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    If you paid 8 and only ask 5 in return there's no way you can win. Pay 8 ask 12+ to ensure victory.
  7. commis

    commis Jul 21, 2009 Massachusetts

    If you paid $8 and want $4$, then that's what you should ask for. I think a ton of people would love to trade you 8 bucks worth of beer per bottle of KBS.
    I know that when I bought bottles of CBS at a pretty big upcharge, ($28) and posted a FT for a couple of them, I simply stated in my post that I was looking to go $4$ but that I did pay a pretty inflated price. I made it clear that I wasn't going to be offended if no one thought that was reasonable but that was the way it was going to be. In response, I had many folks who were more than happy to send me $28 of beer for a chance to try CBS. In the end, two awesome BAs got $28 bottles and were happy about it because in their opinion, a $28 bottle of CBS was a hell of a lot better than no bottle of CBS at all. They would have bought it at that same price if it was at a store near them with the same pricetag. They didn't feel ripped off, and I didn't feel I had ripped them off.
    When something is simply not attainable, many people feel it's no skin off their back whatsoever to have to pay a little more for it. It's not like you're tacking on your own little fee or anything... It's what you paid.
  8. Knifestyles

    Knifestyles Jun 7, 2005 New York

    Hugely reduced according to whom? Aren't the breweries the ones who set the prices to begin with? Especially in a situation such as a brewery-only releases (as you cite below) where there is only one place to purchase that beer (i.e. the brewery). Why would a brewery choose to price their beer below the actual cost of production?

    That's a pretty dicey suggestion. Should the cost of gas be rolled into the "value" of a beer? How about time? Great example: Kate the Great tickets. Should the "cost" of the bottle include all of the losing scratch-off tickets that you had to burn through before you got a winner? Not so sure....
    vurt and Beerontwowheels like this.
  9. MADPolo

    MADPolo Dec 19, 2012 Alabama

    I feel like when it comes to releases like KBS where the prices can go up and down depending on where in the distribution chain you bought it, you should just figure out a few wants that you are trying to tick off your list and then think to yourself "How many *insert beer here* am I willing to give for that bottle of beer I want to tick". Forget the $4$ shit. How bad do you want whatever beer you are looking for.

    I mean, I traded a Bramble for a 4pk of '13 KBS for a BC Bramble. There was no mention of how much he paid or how much I paid in the trade. They wanted a Bramble and offered up quite a few beers. We weren't concerned with rarity or $$$, so the trade was easy. I had what he wanted and he had what I wanted.

    I did the same with another person, a Cherry Rye & a BCBCS for 7 x '13 KBS and a '13 KBS Glass. Again, no mention of $$$, just a matter of me having what he wanted and him having what I wanted.

    I'd say post the exact amount of KBS you are willing to trade away for the exact bottle of beer you are looking for. That leaves zero questions for anyone. If nobody bites, then whether you like or not, you obviously need to adjust the trade a little, no matter what you paid for the beer.
    FrankHammer likes this.
  10. FrankHammer

    FrankHammer Jan 31, 2013 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Don't be an ass. I'm not trying to win trades. Just asking a question that I'm sure more than a few people are thinking. Thanks for the responses everyone.
  11. loki993

    loki993 Apr 16, 2009 Michigan

    Trading not about winning or losing its about two people getting something they want for what they feel is a fair deal. people like you are the reason some of this crap is so hard to get.
  12. Jnorton00

    Jnorton00 Apr 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    Sarcasm... ;)
    podunkparte, ridglens, jrnyc and 2 others like this.
  13. Jnorton00

    Jnorton00 Apr 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    See above
  14. Johnnyramirez

    Johnnyramirez Nov 17, 2012 California

    If this was a California beer the trade value would be what the brewery charged, who cares about getting gouged.

    However, since its a Midwest beer, I personally wouldn't go over the $25 range when trading for this. Hit a happy medium between the $5 at the brewery and the $8+ dollars your shop is charging. $6 seems fair with neither person getting butthurt that the other was trying to "win" the trade.

    $20 of widely distributed limited beer would be fairer IMO, but what's $5?

    And if it was a regular trading partner, $4$ goes out the window. I don't care about value when it comes to trading partners. Just give them the best box possible regardless of rarity
  15. loki993

    loki993 Apr 16, 2009 Michigan

    lol well in that case yeah...I get it sorry
  16. MADPolo

    MADPolo Dec 19, 2012 Alabama

    I don't think Frankhammer's question was a bad question. Most, not all, but most folks that are trading now are extremely concerned with $4$ and talk about it openly in the trading forum. From what I can see, FrankHammer is new to trading on here, and reading those posts can throw newer traders for a loop. They get wrapped up in $4$ and have questions like the one the OP asked.

    Instead of bullshitting the guy, just guide him in the ways of "good" trading. Fuck winning trades, trade what you need to, to get the beer you want to try and then try to "WIN" in the extras you give the trader, lol.
    Hopsiam14 likes this.
  17. loki993

    loki993 Apr 16, 2009 Michigan

    My comment wasn't aimed at him it was at Jnoton00 but he was just messing around, as I should have detected.

    Either way yeah I think the OPS question is very valid. The was I see it though is thats between you and your trading partner. Most people on here should be cool about it and realize that you went through some trouble to get the beer. Basically ask for what you want, don't get insane with it, as some people in the fT forum are right now, you should be fine.

    Just be descriptive in your FT thread and tell everyone what's up. If people don't like it they will probably just counters you as long as you're not asking for something very disproportionate.
  18. Jnorton00

    Jnorton00 Apr 13, 2007 Massachusetts

    To be serious though as I'm sure others said; don't trade down the value of what you paid unless you're OK with taking the loss. The prices vary like crazy from standard to outrageous.
  19. Johnnyramirez

    Johnnyramirez Nov 17, 2012 California

    No it shouldn't. If that's the case, I'm gonna add $4 to each trade because I drive a V8 and my bottle shop is 15 miles away. Or do we add the beef jerky and soda that I bought for the road to the brewery an hour away? There's too much room for contention there. I think someone on the ISO:FT forum got ridiculed for adding the service fee for their AleSmith beers, it's the same situation. The value is the value of the beer only IMO.
  20. Knifestyles

    Knifestyles Jun 7, 2005 New York

    I don't know about you, but I add beef jerky and soda to everything.

    Absolutely everything.
    Lasering, kirbmeist and Johnnyramirez like this.
  21. loki993

    loki993 Apr 16, 2009 Michigan

    I would agree, put it up for the what you paid for it not for less. If someone has a problem with it they will tell you any probably counter.
  22. kirbmeist

    kirbmeist Mar 16, 2012 Florida
    Beer Trader

    As long as you destroy each others porches nothing else matters.
  23. evilcatfish

    evilcatfish May 11, 2012 Missouri
    Beer Trader

    Price gouging at stores sucks, but if you are willing to pay that price, then you should be prepared to trade at fair market value
    Johnnyramirez likes this.
  24. evilcatfish

    evilcatfish May 11, 2012 Missouri
    Beer Trader

  25. xnicknj

    xnicknj May 25, 2009 Pennsylvania

    If you're worried about $2-4 difference in a trade, chances are you're probably not destroying anything.

    That said, the wild disparity in prices for KBS is a total mess, despite the fact that the beer is widely distributed, produced yearly and not rare.
  26. kirbmeist

    kirbmeist Mar 16, 2012 Florida
    Beer Trader

    Honestly man when in doubt err on the side of being a solid BA. Hook people up and you will in turn be hooked up. To me that is the greatest part of being a member of this site. There are tons of people on here that deserve to be drowned with boxes of great beer and your generosity will not go unnoticed.
  27. Johnnyramirez

    Johnnyramirez Nov 17, 2012 California

    I don't mind $2-4 difference in 1 bottle. But with KBS fluctating prices that equates to anywhere from a $20-$48 4 pack. I'm happier sending fair $4$ and a shit ton of extras than trading for gouged prices. It just rubs me the wrong way. The $25 range is fair IMO and I'll send high quality extras. I wouldn't trade BA Speedway Stout for $50 because that's what my shop sold their black market bottles for.
  28. xnicknj

    xnicknj May 25, 2009 Pennsylvania

    This is kinda what I'm getting at. Like if I go to Brooklyn and buy a $300 Westy gift pack, should I then be allowed to pass the cost onto a trading partner? I think not.
    Johnnyramirez likes this.
  29. cmmcdonn

    cmmcdonn Jun 21, 2009 Virginia

    That seems like a very different situation than what's being talked about here, but you'd have every right to. Obviously it's a stupid idea and you'd end up burning some bridges, but I don't see what the moral issue is, other than potentially pissing off a trading partner.

    If I were dumb enough to buy a bottle of KBS for $20 with the sole purpose of trading it, I would trade it $4$ at 20. I would also expect 0 replies to my ISO (minus the threadshitters). If I bought a case at Founders for X, I would trade a bottle $4$ at X/24.

    This is also on the basis that all other factors are equal. In reality, much like your above example, the person it's going to plays a part too. If one of my trading partners was in need of a KBS and I had some, he would be receiving a "happy Friday" box no questions asked.
    commis likes this.
  30. cocoapuph

    cocoapuph Mar 4, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    KBS has always been an extra in any trades I've dealt with. Seems appropriate as you don't have to worry about the cost either side paid for it. Same for BCBS.
  31. griffeyb

    griffeyb Oct 15, 2010 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    What I meant by "hugely reduced" was that breweries are able to sell beer for only what they put into making it, plus a little percentage hike in order to make money to make it worth the effort of producing the beer. Whereas, as soon as a beer hits distribution, the price rises significantly, and immediately, and by rule. Generally, distributors purchase beer for what you would be able to buy it for from the brewery, and then they hike the price 20% for their costs involved in getting the beer to retailers. From that point on, distributors sell to retailers and retailers then hike the price of the beer a certain percentage (some more than others) depending on margins, demand, etc. This is our 3-tier alcohol structure that exists throughout the country.
  32. Knifestyles

    Knifestyles Jun 7, 2005 New York

    Thanks. I actually work for a very large alcohol company so the concept of the 3-tier system is certainly not unfamiliar territory to me.

    Please review what I've quoted from you above:

    The context of your original post is that of brewery-only releases wherein the 3-tier system does not come into play at any point. There is no distributor and there is no retailer. The brewery essentially acts as each of these "tiers" when they're the ones creating the product, setting the final price of the product and then ultimately selling that product directly to the customer.

    As for the latter quote, do you still feel that all things should be considered in the cost of a beer? It seems that the consensus is that any additional "costs" incurred beyond that of the actual product is the responsibility of the original purchaser and should not be handed down to the person looking to trade for that particular bottle. Of course, you're free to use whatever negotiation tactics that you see fit in order to arrange a trade, but I don't think that's ever been a standard component in the act of trading (at least not in any of the trades that I've been involved in).
  33. atoulouk

    atoulouk Apr 25, 2011 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    Then why was Doom $13 at the brewery and $14.99 at my local store?

    $13 (what you say the distributor had to pay for Doom)x 1.2 (20% markup you say the distributor charges) = $15.60 x 1.1 (I'm assuming the store is only marking it up 10%, which is probably drastically low.) = $17.16 I don't think anyone was paying more than $14 or $15 bucks for Doom off the shelf.

    KBS was $19/ 4-pack at the release, and I believe $20.99 or $21.99 at the stores. Using your same logic it would have been $25.08 for a 4-pack across the board, without any price gouging.

    If you're paying much more than $22 or $23 for a pack that it's because the store is raising the price themselves because they know it's a highly coveted beer or because they are breaking the 4-packs down into singles and selling them at an additional single-bottle markup. (which is wrong IMO.)

    I believe most breweries sell their beers at the suggested retail price, not the wholesale price given to distributors.
  34. griffeyb

    griffeyb Oct 15, 2010 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    1. KBS was not a brewery-only release. That was not the context of my original post.

    2. I do not feel that ticket price should be included in the price of beer when trading it. Rather it should be one of a number of things to consider (do not read price), i.e., that you had to buy a ticket, go to the brewery, etc., just like everybody else who trades brewery-only releases (DL, CFH, BEAT, etc.) does. But, again, KBS was not brewery-only.
  35. Knifestyles

    Knifestyles Jun 7, 2005 New York

    I'll just go ahead and quote your entire original post for the sake of accuracy:

    Since you weren't directly quoting anyone else, one can only assume exactly what you were referring to. To make a statement such as the above in a thread titled "KBS trade value etiquette" suggests that the context of your post is directly related to this specific topic. Not sure how valid your argument is then since KBS was obviously not a brewery-only release, yet you essentially lumped it in with the likes of DLD, et al.
  36. griffeyb

    griffeyb Oct 15, 2010 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    The brewery can charge whatever they like to charge. In my experience, the breweries generally charge less than you will find at retail because they are not subject to the general expenses that retailers are subject to in order to get their beer to the general public. Some choose to suggest a retail price, and charge the same as the retailers do so as to not upset the general public about pricing. Some charge the same as retail because they simply want to make more money.

    What I was explaining was the prevailing system the majority of alcohol retailing experiences. Not all products experience the same exact pricing structure.

    Doom, in the stores I shop at, is $16, in spite of Founders' MSRP of $12.99.
  37. griffeyb

    griffeyb Oct 15, 2010 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    One should never assume.
  38. minnesotaryan

    minnesotaryan Dec 27, 2010 Minnesota

    heres what you do, trade for equally good beer.

    if you end up a few $s short on your end, guess what, it will come around. hook up your trade partners and you will get hooked up!
    Earlycsquid and Lasering like this.
  39. nrbw23

    nrbw23 Jul 30, 2007 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    How about just drink it.
  40. Earlycsquid

    Earlycsquid Jan 7, 2013 California
    Beer Trader

    nah, man. midwest shelf whales, braw.
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