KtG brewer leaving Portsmouth Brewery ... increase in value?

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by ajcormier, Jul 11, 2012.


Has Kate increased in value with the news that Mott will be leaving the Brewery?

  1. Yes; It was a whale to begin with and now it just got harder to get.

  2. No; It's still going to be a whale

  1. ajcormier

    ajcormier Initiate (0) Nov 18, 2010 New Hampshire

    So now that it's official and Tod Mott, brewer of Kate the Great, is leaving the place where the beer became famous, what happens to the value of the Kate that's on the trading market?

    As most of us beer geeks out there understand, recreating a beer on a different brewing system changes the characteristics of the beer completely and can take a few years to dial back in. This is especially true when making a big beer that requires aging, conditioning and a longer fermentation process. It's not like the beer can be brewed, fermented and served within a month and if it's not quite right, do it again and again until it's nailed.

    Not to mention if the beer will EVEN be brewed again in the near future. So what's the new value of KtG?
  2. MaxSpang

    MaxSpang Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2011 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    While I don't think it should, I predict that Kate is going to be considered much rarer in months to come, at least in the trading forums.
  3. jsilva

    jsilva Initiate (0) Nov 10, 2009 Massachusetts

    The value of Kate has dropped significantly over the last few years and I dont see this making a huge difference honestly. The word is out that Kate although very good is just too plain/tame to give up what it used to fetch and hence the overrated word has been thrown around a lot. I would like to see Kate evolve and maybe be barrel aged in the future. Hopefully with Mott gone they start to brew more interesting or risky/extreme stuff. Or a constant Ipa/Dipa on tap would be cool too.
    mikecharley and SpeedwayJim like this.
  4. stupac2

    stupac2 Zealot (518) Feb 22, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    I'm not sure your poll options are actually different. "It's a whale" or "It's a whale". Okay.

    As for the value, who cares? We don't know what's going to happen and speculating about it is pretty pointless.
    smutty33, claaark13, Soonami and 5 others like this.
  5. Photekut

    Photekut Initiate (0) Mar 31, 2006 Tennessee

    I am not going to lose sleep over not drinking it again even if it is made somewhere else.

  6. BigGene

    BigGene Initiate (0) Oct 30, 2010 Florida

    Wouldn't the place that has brewed the beer for a few years continue to brew it. they have the recipe and I dont really think it can be screwed up that bad. (never had KtG so go easy on me)
    MarkIntihar likes this.
  7. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,456) Dec 2, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    3) stupid poll.

    hits "whale" use, confusing beer with baseball cards or money, shameless attempts to hype a beer the OP probably possesses, etc. count me out, thanks.
    claaark13, slvrmon82, stxSS07 and 6 others like this.
  8. domtronzero

    domtronzero Initiate (0) Aug 18, 2007 California


    Ahhh... good ol' thinly veiled attempts at boosting the trade value of overrated beers.
    Mavajo, stxSS07, Levitation and 2 others like this.
  9. aandresen

    aandresen Aspirant (205) Sep 21, 2009 Arizona
    Beer Trader

    Pretty sure Mordor should be banned from using that avatar with statements like that :rolling_eyes:

    I thought Kate was pretty darn good.
    smutty33 likes this.
  10. Alieniloquium

    Alieniloquium Poo-Bah (5,472) Dec 16, 2008 Florida
    Beer Trader

    The new trend on BA will not simply be to treat beer like a commodity, but to engage in beer speculation. We can start a "Beer Futures Exchange" sub-forum where you can contractually trade beers now for delivery of the beer later. Or perhaps we can start doing short trading of beers we suspect will drop in value. I can borrow your DDG now, trade for a whale, and then return the DDG to you later when I can reobtain it for locals due to its drop in status!

    Even better! Groups of BAs can trade beer insurance for your whales, which can then be bundled, split, and sold as ultra-complicated but exceedingly profitable "Beer Default Swaps." Thus ensuring that you won't be left out to dry if the case of KH you're sitting on doesn't trade for multiple Daves in 5 years.

    Man, it sucks that I like to drink the most profitable assets in my investment portfolio...
  11. tendermorsel

    tendermorsel Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2006 Massachusetts

    People need to remember the there is a difference between Whales, Shelf Whales and DONGS. If the "new" Kate is a brewery only thing than it would remain a true Whale. If production does not increase but it gets distribution than it is not a Whale but a Shelf Whale. If it ends up being draft only than it would be a DONG (Don't think Maine does growler fills off a draft).

    To early for Tender to make a call on this one. Too many variables at this point.
  12. steebo777

    steebo777 Zealot (511) Jun 30, 2009 Michigan

    Couldn't have said it better.

    Sorry, but KtG is overhyped. Good, not great beer.
    ales4baldo likes this.
  13. aandresen

    aandresen Aspirant (205) Sep 21, 2009 Arizona
    Beer Trader

    Sounded more like Walter than The Dude is all. Maybe I am a Nihilist.
  14. Sarlacc83

    Sarlacc83 Crusader (752) Mar 2, 2008 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    Well yeah it's more like Walter. The post wasn't about White Russians.
  15. jsilva

    jsilva Initiate (0) Nov 10, 2009 Massachusetts

    Tender not to burst your bubble but portsmouth is in NH not Maine and they currently fill growlers to go so your dong equation is theoretically possible.
  16. stupac2

    stupac2 Zealot (518) Feb 22, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    I know, right? Huge swaths of my cellar are now beer that I'm not really looking forward to just because I tend to drink all the good stuff. (Incidentally, this fact is why I'm not particularly big on extras.)
  17. ASUBeer

    ASUBeer Aspirant (206) Nov 4, 2011 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    Has the "never going to be brewed again" line always been used to generate hype on this site? Or is this a newer phenomenon?
  18. ShawDeuce22

    ShawDeuce22 Initiate (184) Mar 17, 2009 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    I think what he was saying is that Todd is going to Maine, if he were to brew it in Maine then it may be a DONG. I'm not 100% sure if Maine allows growlers from taps either.

    [EDIT: ninja-ish]
  19. tendermorsel

    tendermorsel Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2006 Massachusetts

    haha.... mostly being a wise ass... I thought that he was gonna brewing in Maine too...

    Speaking of Shelf Whales.... I owe you some real whales bro. You delivered the goods recently and Tender only brought shelf whales to the table..:slight_frown:
  20. Levitation

    Levitation Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2009 California

    please don't lump us all in with pokemon collectors like yourself.

    you hear this news and the first thing you're concerned about is "increase in value"... jesus wept.
    hmph, Mavajo, sherm1016 and 3 others like this.
  21. Levitation

    Levitation Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2009 California

    what's starting to depress me is that before, it used to take some effort to uncover people's hyping shenanigans, and it was just a few people. now it seems like everyone does it and they don't even bother to hide it.
    Mavajo, stxSS07, ChadQuest and 5 others like this.
  22. drummermattie02

    drummermattie02 Crusader (730) May 10, 2009 Texas
    Beer Trader

    Don't start a thread like this and tell me you live 20 minutes from the brewery. C'mon man, lie to me, AJ! LIE TO ME!
  23. ajcormier

    ajcormier Initiate (0) Nov 18, 2010 New Hampshire

    Sure did cause quite a little stir with this post... It was mostly curiosity as I agree with most of you. I'm a little offended by the accusation that I'm trying to hype my own wares for value though. I don't really care personally what Kate is worth because I happen to have had a bunch of it and like it. It's not a whale for me, I prefer sours actually.

    Levitation, I'll trade you a Pikachu for a Lou Pepe Kriek?
  24. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    I love Kate. She's a delicate flower, and too many people expect something that is going to punch you in the face and call you names. It is easily one of the most complex, unique, and interesting stouts out there. But I digress...

    As for Kate's value - I think anybody would be a fool to overpay for it right now. It's entirely possible that he's going to do to Kate what The Alchemist did to Heady Topper. i.e. blast production up through the roof and try to make it a regular release. That's certainly what I would do, and I never understood why Smutty didn't do it. Kate doesn't use barrels, which could help make this operation a lot more efficient than one would think. Yes, he needs to dial it in on a new system, but he knows the recipe, knows the beer inside and out, and will figure it out quickly. The base beer is the real challenge, and that doesn't require waiting around very long. The aging will do what the aging does, which is more variable.

    If, on the other hand, he retires Kate, then yes, its value would skyrocket. But I'm not sure I see that happening, so long as he legally owns the name/recipe. That would literally be like setting dollar bills on fire.
    queens1130 likes this.
  25. Levitation

    Levitation Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2009 California

    and yet you started a thread asking about its value, and your two options in the poll are "wale or walier."
    baconsausage, Pahn and Photekut like this.
  26. ajcormier

    ajcormier Initiate (0) Nov 18, 2010 New Hampshire

    I'm sorry the choice of words weren't appropriate and/or misused in the poll. I'll be sure to check Beeradvocate Forum Thesaurus in the future. I'll chose better next time.
  27. Levitation

    Levitation Initiate (0) Aug 7, 2009 California

    advocate please. you don't get to be sarcastic when caught with your pants down.
    cavedave and Auror like this.
  28. ajcormier

    ajcormier Initiate (0) Nov 18, 2010 New Hampshire

    ha ha ha... I love this place. Sarcasm is quite possibly the best humor in speech or writing!
  29. JAXSON

    JAXSON Savant (912) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    The only two choices in your poll are that it's a mega whale no matter what happens. Should have expanded the poll a bit:

    A) Still a huge wale
    B) Even more of a wale now
    C) Will always be a huge wale
    D) The witest of the wite
    E) Wite wale
    Photekut, ChadQuest, drewba and 2 others like this.
  30. ajcormier

    ajcormier Initiate (0) Nov 18, 2010 New Hampshire

    LOL, I wish I could go back and edit the original post and poll! Now those are great choices!
  31. OddNotion

    OddNotion Devotee (478) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Since he is leaving the brewery, wont the beer name remain with the brewery (thinking of the similar situation with Wooden Hell and the guy from Flossmoor)? The KtG recipe has been posted online so it is not like it is any big secret. I assume that KtG can still be made on the same equipment by Portsmouth/Smutty. The only variable is the brewer which can make a huge difference but I can also venture to guess that Mott was not the only one brewing this beer every time so others at the brewery will be familiar with his process.

    As for the rarity and what not, those bottles are already out on the market and only get more "rare" with every bottle that is consumed. Just because a brewer leaves does not necessarily mean the beer will not keep on being produced.
  32. Rempo

    Rempo Initiate (0) Jan 18, 2010 Indiana

    Very nice.
    Levitation likes this.
  33. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    Allegedly he's taking the name with him. Honestly, if Smuttynose really gave a shit, they would have just done Smuttynose Port Aged Imperial Stout years ago.
  34. BigTomZ

    BigTomZ Initiate (0) Apr 14, 2009 Virginia

    I read something where someone had asked if they would use the newer/larger Smuttynose brewery and they said no. They wanted to keep brewing it the same way on the same equipment in the same place.

    So it would seem that anyone who works there and knows how to brew it should be able to produce the same product.
  35. drewba

    drewba Initiate (0) Nov 14, 2009 Illinois

    OP - don't listen to the haters. When Goose Island was bought out by A-B, my pre-buyout bourbon counties quadrupled in value. Now I get ebay value over here on the trade forums. My 12 oz bottles go 1:1 with super limited bombers and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

    On the other hand, no one likes me. I'm really lonely.
    chase2634, cavedave, nrbw23 and 11 others like this.
  36. OddNotion

    OddNotion Devotee (478) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Alright I see... well the equipment is still at Portsmouth and the recipe has been made public so they could just change the name but brew the beer...not a big deal, I agree with you - if Smutty cared that much they could have gone the route you mentioned.
  37. aandresen

    aandresen Aspirant (205) Sep 21, 2009 Arizona
    Beer Trader

    Smuttynose and Portsmouth are owned by the same guy. I believe he said it was possible to brew it at Smutty but chose not to as the Kate and Kate Day were special events that he liked. Could Smuttynose do it, of course, will they (or Portsmouth for that matter)? We shall see. I hope they do in some way as I look to have waited to long to do a Kate Day trip.
  38. DanE

    DanE Disciple (328) Feb 24, 2012 Connecticut

    You aren't asking this because you work at Portsmouth, are you? :wink:

    Mavajo likes this.
  39. ajcormier

    ajcormier Initiate (0) Nov 18, 2010 New Hampshire

    @ DanE - No, actually my last day is tomorrow. It's been a great two years but time to move out of the restaurant industry. :slight_frown: I've been doing this for 13 years but my wife and family come first. If anyone has worked in the business you know that a social life and family tend to come second and that's not fair.

    Headed back to school for my doc in architecture.
    franklinn and totoropanda like this.
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