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Lactobacillus plantarum keg souring maximum temperature

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Misterphinister, Apr 24, 2017.

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  1. Misterphinister

    Misterphinister Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2015 Michigan

    Hey all,

    Curious if anyone has information around lactobacillus plantarum souring in a keg around 120 degrees F. I assumed with my brew belt and some towels in a 70 degree room that I would run around 100 degrees for 2 days but as soon as I opened the keg to transfer into boil kettle, wort temp measured at 120 degrees. Wort was tasty and definitely more sour with PH being somewhere below 4. Using pH strips, I was unable to get the exact pH but it tasted great so I'm not too worried about the beer. Let me know your experience and thoughts using keg souring and if you have had better success at certain temperatures. Will report out in a few weeks after primary fermentation.
     
    #1 Misterphinister, Apr 24, 2017
  2. Liberatiscioli

    Liberatiscioli Initiate (0) Oct 3, 2013 Pennsylvania

    I've had great experience at lower temps with planatarum. High 70's , mid low 80's and pH of around 3.2 achieved in less than a week. High 80's low 90's for a week and I hit 3.45. All depends where you want to be. If you want something higher than that lacto delbrueckki will get you closer to 4.0 but also took a while longer to get there a couple weeks at temps greater than 90F.

    Just my experience with bugs and Berliner over the past 2 years. Hope it helps.
     
    #2 Liberatiscioli, Apr 25, 2017
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  3. Lukass

    Lukass Pooh-Bah (2,745) Dec 16, 2012 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah

    You can get a nice kettle sour in 3-4 days at room temp with plantarum. I've done room temp a few times with it, but now I use a $20 heat wrap that keeps the carboy/keg at around 90F. I've been able to get a good lactic bite in about 48 hours. Just note that if tasting the wort pre-fermentation, it won't taste as sour because of all the fermentable sugars. If you use a high attenuating yeast and carb to 3 vol CO2, the sourness will really come through when it's ready to consume.

    So, you definitely don't have to shoot for 100-120F with plantarum to get a good kettle soured beer.
     
    #3 Lukass, Apr 26, 2017
  4. Misterphinister

    Misterphinister Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2015 Michigan

    I would love to shoot for 90 but I guess I just wanted to know if anyone has ever soured at this temp and what the beer was like. I'll be able to report out on my batch in 2 weeks or so but would love a baseline to compare. Guess my next batch will be around 90
     
    #4 Misterphinister, Apr 26, 2017
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  5. RashyGrillCook

    RashyGrillCook Initiate (0) Apr 30, 2011 Florida

    L. plantarum seems to be one of the weirdos that does better at slightly lower temps. Between 80-95*F is considered ideal. It will still do its thing above that however I don't know if that will cause it to produce other compounds in the same vein as yeast at different temps. My WAG would be no. It has been a while but I don't recall any major difference between the L. plantarum berliners I soured at different temperatures.
     
    #5 RashyGrillCook, Apr 27, 2017
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  6. honkey

    honkey Maven (1,326) Aug 28, 2010 Arizona
    Trader

    In my experience, Plantarum is very finnicky about warm temperatures. I normally hit 3.1 pH in about 18 hours at 98 degrees F. The first time I used it, I was at 110 degrees for 48 hours and only got down to 3.6 pH in that time.
     
    #6 honkey, Apr 27, 2017
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  7. Misterphinister

    Misterphinister Initiate (0) Feb 17, 2015 Michigan

    Beer is not as sour as I was hoping but this would be considered my control as it was my first. Definitely a great lawnmower beer with nice blueberry characteristics from the good belly. My next test will be to keep the keg souring around 90 to 100 and compare the results. I just hope my old lady doesn't crush the keg before I can get another one on. She and I also agree that there is something missing in the middle of the taste. Great salinity, perfect carb, amazing wheat flavor but I would like to know if there is anything you guys have done to improve your sours. Here is what I used from Ale of Riverwards recommendations

    Grain: 1st boil for 5 minutes (mashed in at 149 for 60 minutes
    50.0% - 3lbs 11oz - Weyermann Pilsen (1.5 SRM)
    50.0% - 3lbs 11oz - CMC White Wheat (3.5 SRM)
    1 carton of goodbelly blueberry acai, held around 120 for 2 days (Targeted 90 for 2 days but overshot)

    2nd boil (only 5 minutes long)
    Additions put in as soon as boil started
    1.00 oz of Hallertau Blanc
    1.50 oz of Pink Himalayan Sea Salt
    1 oz of muddled Coriander seed

    Yeast was 1 pack danstar munich wheat and fermented 12 days around 68 degrees.
     
    #7 Misterphinister, May 9, 2017
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