Lager off of grub?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by Angus1, Jul 22, 2020.

  1. Angus1

    Angus1 Initiate (43) Mar 6, 2015 Delaware

    I’m very new, 5-5 gallon batches so far and having a blast. I brewed a strong golden this weekend that calls for a two week fermentation and then a 3 week lager period before priming and bottling. Should I pull the brew off of the trun after two weeks and before the lager phase? Worried I’ll get funky flavors with trub present for 3 weeks. Thanks.
     
  2. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Poo-Bah (2,773) May 30, 2005 Michigan
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    Presuming your trub might still be all of your hop matter (iow you didn't use a hop bag and remove it to this point) I'd transfer to a lagering bucket/carboy. You brewed a golden ale and you could be taking a chance in affecting its delicate flavor by leaving it on the trub.

    You could also proceed to bottling and then lager in the bottles, but all of those bottles will take a lot of room in your chill space.
     
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  3. MrOH

    MrOH Meyvn (1,244) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Also, you should make sure the beer is done fermenting before lagering. The yeast can't read a calendar, and works on it's own schedule.
     
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  4. Angus1

    Angus1 Initiate (43) Mar 6, 2015 Delaware

     
  5. Angus1

    Angus1 Initiate (43) Mar 6, 2015 Delaware

    Thank you so much. I have room and ability to lager in carboy as well as bottles. Just super worried about off flavors. Will watch and check for final gravity then secondary it with CO2 on top for lager phase.
     
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  6. Angus1

    Angus1 Initiate (43) Mar 6, 2015 Delaware

     
  7. Angus1

    Angus1 Initiate (43) Mar 6, 2015 Delaware

    I will be watching for final gravity then pull to secondary. Thank you for your advice........kinda new and fairly anal about screwing up a batch!
     
  8. VikeMan

    VikeMan Poo-Bah (1,948) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
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    @Angus, FYI you can quote a post and reply in the same post, which will make it easier to follow the thread.
     
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  9. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Poo-Bah (2,773) May 30, 2005 Michigan
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    You're doing okay if you have the willingness to brew a lager and the equipment to lager it after only five batches. Keep it going. :slight_smile:
     
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  10. riptorn

    riptorn Disciple (381) Apr 26, 2018 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    FTFY
     
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  11. Angus1

    Angus1 Initiate (43) Mar 6, 2015 Delaware

    Thanks. I’ll try the quote route.
     
  12. Angus1

    Angus1 Initiate (43) Mar 6, 2015 Delaware

    I use a hop screen basket since most of my hops are “homegrown” and full cone rather than pelleted. When I use pelleted it seems the hop basket keeps 90-95% of the hops within it and I am able to remove when boil is complete. So far I’ve made a saison, rye saison, DIPA “Lolihop” clone, saison w/ tart cherries added into secondary and this Belgian strong. 5 gallon pot, turkey burner and a little know how to get me in trouble!
     
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  13. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Poo-Bah (2,773) May 30, 2005 Michigan
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    If you think there are too many gaps in your brewing knowledge, reading John Palmer's book, HowToBrew.com will help a lot. It's free to read online (1st ed) and reasonably priced to buy new (4th ed).
     
  14. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Devotee (407) May 2, 2006 Utah

    Not to throw a wrench in the works, but a Strong Golden isn’t a style that is typically lagered anyway, in spite of what any directions might say. Cheers!
     
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  15. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,910) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
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    You are not going to ruin your beer by keeping it on the trub for 3 weeks. If you did a side by side comparison in which one beer was allowed longer contact time with trub than the other, you might notice a difference and you might establish a preference (I have my doubts), but I feel confident that you would not say that you ruined a beer. I think it far more likely that you would conclude it doesn't matter much.
     
  16. Eggman20

    Eggman20 Initiate (78) Feb 14, 2017 Minnesota

    Agreed, I would just leave it. Any beer 6 weeks or less (and sometimes even longer if I really want to avoid oxygen pickup) I'll leave in primary. I used to secondary everything when I started and didn't know better but now I only move it if I am adding Fruit or lagering for long periods of time. If you had a healthy fermentation you likely won't notice any difference. This is especially important if you don't have an oxygen free way to move to secondary. You're more likely to ruin a beer with oxygenation than leaving it on yeast too long.

    As mentioned above if its a Belgian strong I wouldn't bother lagering. I'd be sure its completed fermentation and if I wanted to clear it a bit cold crash it a week or so before bottling.
     
    #16 Eggman20, Jul 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
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  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,654) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    I fundamentally agree with you here but I personally prefer to package in a timeframe less than 6 weeks; my personal preference is to not let the beer sit on the yeast too long. The longest I would go in a primary is 3 weeks. There is no need to go longer than that and while there may be no notable flavor effects of yeast autolysis (e.g., the often mentioned off flavor of soy sauce) for going beyond 3 weeks there could be other, more subtle effects. YMMV.

    If the brewer thinks there is further need for beer maturation this will occur after bottling as part of the bottle conditioning process. I often let my Belgian Ales (Quad, Triple, Dubbel, Saison,...) 'sit' in the bottle for some 'extra time' before I start 'going to town' consuming them. I took a recently brewed Saison (3 weeks in the primary and now 3 weeks in the bottle) for a 'test ride' last evening and while it was quite tasty I will wait another month before drinking a second bottle. It has been my consistent experience that my annual batches of Saison notably improve with several months in the bottle.

    Cheers!

    Cheers!
     
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  18. Angus1

    Angus1 Initiate (43) Mar 6, 2015 Delaware

    I wasn’t sure why the layering for a Belgian Ale........maybe just make sure FG has been met, cold crash a few days to a week and then bottle? Whenever I move to secondary I do so as to not “drop” the beer in but rather gently allow it to flow in and back upwards against the side of carboy.......then top it off with CO2 to push out O2 and replace with a new airlock.........sound right? Thanks to everyone for advice!!!!!
     
  19. MrOH

    MrOH Meyvn (1,244) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    I'm guessing you're doing a Duvel clone and it's mimicking their production? If so, homebrewing production can differ quite a bit from commercial production, due to scale. I'd say go as planned, and make adjustments as you deem necessary in the future, if you choose to try brewing this beer in the future. Good notes are your friend!
     
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  20. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Poo-Bah (2,773) May 30, 2005 Michigan
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    If your recipe instructions say "lagering" it is a a confusing term to use. (Are these instructions of European origin, by chance?) "Conditioning" would have been a better way to say it, and I don't mean to use that word from a carbonation perspective. Letting some beers age a bit is very beneficial to smoothing out the taste experience from the 'green' beer, and I think that's what they are aiming for in those instructions. Letting your beer sit cool in bulk or in bottles should not make much, if any difference. It's your choice when to bottle.
     
  21. Angus1

    Angus1 Initiate (43) Mar 6, 2015 Delaware

    So.......what effect are they trying to achieve by “lagering” a Belgian? My 5 gallon batch has 10 pounds of malt and 2.5 pounds of Simplicity.......I love Belgian beer and don’t want to screw this up. Previous saisons have been incredible......
     
  22. Angus1

    Angus1 Initiate (43) Mar 6, 2015 Delaware

    Thanks.......I’m a newbie
     
  23. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Poo-Bah (2,773) May 30, 2005 Michigan
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    My point (and probably their's) is that you could drink your beer after it's done fermenting (and as soon as it's carbonated), but some aging (lagering means storage/aging) will make it a better beer. Any freshly fermented beer is a 'green' beer and will improve as it matures, it's just more important/noticeable in some beers to do this.

    Just as a guess, since this is a Belgian ale, and assuming you used a Belgian yeast, maybe the esters are a bit too strong in the green beer, but will subside after a few weeks to allow the beer to reach its peak flavor.
     
  24. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,654) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
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    And this maturation can occur in the bottle. Absolutely no requirement to conduct a bulk secondary in this regard.

    Cheers!
     
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