Lagering in Primary?

Short answer: I have never lagered in my primary (a plastic bucket).

Some talking out loud points on lagering in a primary: two things I would be ‘concerned’ about are potential oxidation and effects from being on a yeast cake ‘too long’.

Since I primary in a plastic bucket, and a plastic bucket is not oxygen impermeable, there will be some oxygen ingress into the wort/beer over a period of time. I am not too concerned about oxidation during the primary ferment since the CO2 outgassing will ‘scrub’ some of the O2 out. Once primary fermentation is complete, how much oxygen ingresses and dissolves into the beer? I don’t really know. I have kept my beer in a primary for a total of 4-5 weeks when making some higher gravity ales. If I lagered in my primary the duration would be longer: a total of 8 weeks (2 weeks of primary and 6 weeks of lagering). Would my lager beer be oxidized by 8 weeks in a plastic bucket?

Does sitting on a yeast cake for 8 weeks have negative consequences? I really don’t know. I suspect that 2 months of contact time would not have yeast autolysis effects but I would be uncomfortable taking that chance.

There may be other considerations for lagering in a primary beyond the above but they are not immediately coming to mind.

In summary, my process for producing lagers is 2 weeks in the primary bucket and 6 weeks in the lagering carboy (at temperatures below 40°F).

Cheers!

 

Rather than a prescribed amount of time in primary, I say keep it there until it is finished. Consider doing a diacetyl rest when fermentation is close to finished. When the fermentation is finished and the beer has no buttery or green apple sensations, transfer it to secondary and lager (that is Plan A). Alternatively, transfer to a bottling bucket, prime, and bottle, allow 3 weeks or so o priming time at room temp, and then lager in the bottle (plan B).

 

Never done it. I'd be worried, a little bit, about possible off flavors from trub or dead yeast, but I imagine the risk is probably pretty slight. Since you're bottling, I would say you could minimize whatever risks there may be by going with a very short lagering period in the primary fermenter, then a longer lagering period in the bottle.

 

let us know how how it turns out.seems a bit long to me to sit on the trub...but i usually don't got past 10 days in the primary if all is going well

 

I would not leave my beer on the yeast for that long. I do not know how long before a homebrew starts to autolize. My standard procedure is 3 weeks in primary then keg and lager. Before I keged I would lager in a plastic bucket for 4-6 weeks without oxicidation.

 

Brad Smith states on one of his beersmith podcast that he does it with no problems/ off flavors. I have personally never done it, but I am currently lagering in a secondary fermenter.

 

I prefer to lager for an extended period of time (2 months at 34 F). So I would not personally do it.

But if you're not on the yeast cake for too long I wouldn't worry about it. Lots of people do it without issues.

 

@Peter_Wolfe posted in a past thread on a differing discussion:

“You'll start seeing low level autolysis after about 3 weeks, IF 1) you started with healthy yeast, and 2) the fermentation temp was kept low (68F or under the whole time). If you start with unhealthy yeast or heat stress it, it'll happen sooner. It takes 6-8 weeks to start seeing wholesale autolysis that gives off the soy sauce flavor if you never transfer off of primary. In a big dark beers (especially stouts), this flavor is pretty effectively masked until it gets really bad, but it shows up like crazy in pale ales.

As they autolyze, the yeast release enzymes, lipids, and metal cations that all have a negative effect on flavor. Best way to forestall this if you know it's gonna be a while until you get to it is to cold crash it. The yeast will not autolyze for a very long time if you cool it down to 34-36 (cool fridge temps). You could have your parents throw the carboy in a fridge if they have room and you'll have some peace of mind.”

From the above it appears that yeast autolysis is greatly slowed down under cold conditions (e.g., 30’s degree F). Maybe it is OK to just use a primary for producing a lager as long as your primary is a carboy that is oxygen impermeable?

Cheers!

http://www.beeradvocate.com/communi...-too-long-in-the-primary.283588/#post-3572265

 

This may be more specific to Ale yeast- as lager yeast is still active at these lower temperatures and ANY autolysis will show up BIG TIME in most lager recipes.

 

That is an interesting thought.

Maybe @Peter_Wolfe can provide further input on this aspect.

FWIW I have seen/read multiple inputs from folks like John Palmer, Jamil Zainasheff, Dr. Brad Smith,... that they have successfully produced lagers just using a primary.

I have always transferred to a carboy for lagering so I have no personal experience here.

Cheers!

 

Lagering... intersting topic

Whats the point??

Ive had a lot of luck just pitching big on lagers, letting it go cold for 2-4 days, then slowly ramping up to "ale" temps. Beer is typically done fermenting in 7-10 days. I then keg the beer, hit with Gelatin, and by day 21 its crystal clear and drinking damn nice and "lagered".

Back to your original question. I personally see no problems lagering in primary for 1-2 months especially if you had a nice big healthy pitch.

Again though, I personally see no reason to lager that long. Unless you enjoy missing out on hop character. Even lagering a Helles for 1-3 months kills that carry over bittering charge hop character that i enjoy. Everyone is different but I've had no problem getting lagers crystal clear in ~21 days thanks to kegging and gelatin. YMMV.