Let's fess up. Haze has been a godsend.

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by pro100, Sep 7, 2018.

  1. pro100

    pro100 Initiate (82) Oct 12, 2014 California

    Craft was getting boring. Sure big stouts, Belgians, and sours were starting to get some light but overall it was whatever. Then the juicy haze came along and everybody's eyes got wide. Dare I say that haze put the fun back in craft beer. Yes some of the Hazebro/line culture makes you want to vomit but man some good beer has come out of this era. I don't even care about the ones that turn their noses up to the style cause the style is now bigger than their opinions. I love a WCIPA still to this very day but I cringe at the thought of what if there were no hazy option in the IPA game. This beer era , all styles included, reminds me of the 90's hip hop scene- the best era ever in the genre.
     
  2. crob3888

    crob3888 Meyvn (1,146) Oct 10, 2010 California

    Craft wasn't "getting boring."

    But, New England hazy IPAs are indeed cool; variety is the spice of life. I can't wait to see what the next exciting/new/innovating styles will be. Until then I'll continue drinking through the classics and the newbies.

    My poor liver.
     
  3. FatBoyGotSwagger

    FatBoyGotSwagger Meyvn (1,075) Apr 4, 2009 Pennsylvania

    This beer era reminds me of the current music scene, you can make your own judgments on that.

    The Haze Bro, Floccboi game is great for beer in the top 5% of it. The other 95% bring down and degrade the current beer scene. Adding a shit ton of flavors to an already not finished product is the end game for you? If you like it keep it up but I am not sipping the same cup of tea.

    I mean it is a great style to introduce non beer drinkers to beer, but that's bout it,
     
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  4. zid

    zid Champion (867) Feb 15, 2010 New York

    Opaque IPAs are not "hazy."
     
  5. honkey

    honkey Zealot (535) Aug 28, 2010 Arizona
    Premium

    I have seen similar claims, but have yet to seee anyone back up their statement with any type of scientific fact that these beers are “not finished” or “rushed.” Maybe you can enlighten us on how that is the case?
     
  6. Lahey

    Lahey Disciple (313) Nov 12, 2016 Michigan

    I was introduced to them, actually had to learn to like them, drank them and got tired of them within about 6 months. I like some bitterness and I like refreshing IPAs. A juicy AND bitter beer is lovely. A juicy sweet beer with a ton of particulate matter is just heavy and one note to me. I'm not an old head either, I just don't love the style from a taste perspective.
     
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  7. FatBoyGotSwagger

    FatBoyGotSwagger Meyvn (1,075) Apr 4, 2009 Pennsylvania

    You know 10x what I do about brewing. But from my take on the situation of hazy IPAs Instead or letting the beer/yeast settle they just can the trub. Some do it great and others suck.

    I don't use science or scholarly articles, when you are truly above the curve you just do what feels right.
     
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  8. FBarber

    FBarber Poo-Bah (2,384) Mar 5, 2016 Illinois
    Premium Trader

    Craft might've been getting boring for you, but with ever increasing variety, I hardly think it was getting "boring" at all. And puh-lease ... sure there are some good NE style IPAs, but it hardly saved beer ... :rolling_eyes:
     
  9. mambossa

    mambossa Initiate (121) Jun 30, 2015 Ohio

    I just miss kettle hop additions. :cry: Why can’t those be cool again?
     
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  10. Giantspace

    Giantspace Defender (641) Dec 22, 2011 Pennsylvania

    NEIPA is not a style I like. No body and mild to no bite. Had a few this summer and did not enjoy them. Probably not world class ones but I don’t think it matters much, how much more thin and fruity can you go, not interested. I want a piney earthy spicy IPA, rye please.

    Enjoy
     
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  11. Steve_Studnuts

    Steve_Studnuts Aspirant (250) Apr 21, 2015 Pennsylvania

    I believe he's just referring to the fact that they're unfiltered.
     
  12. FatBoyGotSwagger

    FatBoyGotSwagger Meyvn (1,075) Apr 4, 2009 Pennsylvania

    IPAs have been unfiltered for over 20 years.

    The new breed of Hazy IPAs are canned unfinished. They don't let beer settle/drop. Some are remarkable but most are one and done drinks for the night.
     
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  13. donspublic

    donspublic Poo-Bah (1,553) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    Premium Trader

    For those who are experimenting with them and trying to determine what causes the haze, the determination is that it is a reaction/biotransformation. Without getting to deep in the weeds, it isn't about the beer being rushed, it is the reaction of certain strains of yeast and hops added during fermentation that seems to be the prevailing cause of the haze. Even when these beers are fined with gelatin (which most home brewers use to clear beer) they still retain the haze. So some who don't understand the style might be doing shortcuts to achieve the haze, but to those doing the NEIPA correctly, the haze is just a byproduct of the process.
     
  14. SammyJaxxxx

    SammyJaxxxx Poo-Bah (2,183) Feb 23, 2012 New Jersey
    Premium Trader

    I think hazy IPAs are boring and the line culture, bruesicle, Milkshake scene is obfuscating what is really interesting about beer.
     
  15. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,415) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Trader

    Totally agree. I am a classical music lover and there has never been a time in my life when so much good classical is so easily available, done so well, and its popularity grown so wide. Just like, as you mention, all my long time favorite beer styles.
     
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  16. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (1,998) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
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  17. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Crusader (797) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts

    Go to Oktoberfest in a couple weeks and you'll forget all about New England IPAs. Somehow Germany "got by" for many many years without a hazy IPA. Plenty of Kellerbier and Hefeweizens though.

    I like New England IPAs, but if they also never existed that would be fine with me. What they have done is expanded the number of breweries, and as a result, we have more options overall, from all styles.

    Ironically one of my favorite aspects of this explosion in craft beer is a feature BORROWED from the Germans...outdoor beer gardens.
     
  18. utopiajane

    utopiajane Poo-Bah (2,529) Jun 11, 2013 New York


    I agree. For the longest no one cared about beer and that is how we got the hopless malt challenged macro beers. Then someone said let there be fruit in the IPA and all beer hell broke loose. Dry hopping was scandalous even intriguing and it sounds so fancy. Those beer flavors made popular by sam adams whom I like to call the baskin robbins of beer really brought people to it.
     
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  19. elohim

    elohim Initiate (144) Dec 4, 2010 Georgia
    Trader

    NEIPAs are alright and they certainly have their place but calling them the savior of the craft beer scene seems a bit over the top. To each their own I guess.
     
  20. Fox82791

    Fox82791 Devotee (446) Jun 20, 2014 New York
    Trader

    No body? Curious who's NEIPA you tried, but their signature is a full soft body, much more so than regular IPAs
     
  21. Fox82791

    Fox82791 Devotee (446) Jun 20, 2014 New York
    Trader

    The ones that do it the right way (IMO) use a certain kind of yeast that causes to yeast to NOT flocculate when it is hit with a dry hop. If brewers are just canning suspended yeast in beer, I wouldn't expect the style to be great, especially after some time in the can.
     
  22. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,415) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Trader

    Is it possible that some folks consider the bitter hop resin linger of some WCIPA as being full bodied?
     
  23. Harrison8

    Harrison8 Poo-Bah (2,445) Dec 6, 2015 Missouri
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    Fighting the good fight. Thank you.
     
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  24. eppCOS

    eppCOS Defender (671) Jun 27, 2015 Colorado
    Premium

    Count me in the "unfiltered and opaque are fine but no chunks or sea monkeys please" camp. But I admit the haze-bruh movement has shaken up (sorry for the pun) established norms of beer aesthetics and mouth feel.
     
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  25. Fox82791

    Fox82791 Devotee (446) Jun 20, 2014 New York
    Trader

    All subjective of course, but what is the true definition of "full bodied"? I find that some people consider a beer that I would find to be "syrupy" or "slick" as being full bodied
     
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  26. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (778) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    ^^^ I'll first agree with then, then say that craft beer is, in fact, MORE boring and derivative since the haze craze. Everybody brewing the same beers isn't exciting or creative and it definitely isn't a godsend.
     
  27. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (778) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    And that's why you're wrong.

    If you use the phrase "some of" or even "a lot of" before the highlighted sentence, it would make it much more accurate.

    Just trying to help.
     
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  28. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,415) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Trader

    Here is the easy answer:
    "The tactile aspects of beer evaluation are mouthfeel and body. ... Body: In beercompetitions, judges use the term body to refer to the weight or thickness of a beer. A light beer is described as light-bodied, an India Pale Ale is considered medium-bodied, and a Doppelbock is full-bodied."

    I think its a function of how you experience the beer in your mouth, combined with how you compare it with others in the same style, combined with whether the beer is supposed to be very light feeling on palate vs. one that is supposed to be be thick and "chewy". What I like about NEIPA done right is it has the thick nature of a substantial beer yet is pillowy soft on the palate, and more refreshing than such a thick beer normally would be, and has lasting flavor without resiny buildup on the palate.

    I am sure better minds will answer with better answers to the full bodied question. At least, I hope they do.
     
  29. Squire

    Squire Poo-Bah (1,943) Jul 16, 2015 Mississippi
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    I have my own thoughts about full bodied but my mirror tells a different story.
     
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  30. HoppingMadMonk

    HoppingMadMonk Champion (828) Mar 3, 2017 New Jersey

    My need , probably along with everyone else's need for new and exciting is what makes anything boring
    I had a river horse summer blonde yesterday..not world class or innovative BUT I actually slowed down and enjoyed it. Decent beer, nice company after a long day made it more than enough. Most days i would have rushed through it and just thought of what i will try next
     
  31. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (778) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    SO much this ^^^^^

    Amazing how good a blonde ale tastes when you've been drinking anything but. My go-to:

    [​IMG]
     
  32. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,313) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey

    :open_mouth: Wow, close to a half-century of beer drinking - "craft" and otherwise - and I never experienced that. Sure a particular beer might become "boring" but there was always another choice (or two or. . .)
     
  33. TongoRad

    TongoRad Poo-Bah (2,436) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Premium Trader

    When everyone's super, nobody is :wink:.
     
  34. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (3,618) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Premium

    Craft beer was not getting boring but we now have the new beers of Juicy/Hazy IPAs to drink. I enjoy drinking these Juicy/Hazy IPAs along with all of the other craft beer styles available to us.

    It’s all good.:slight_smile:

    Cheers!
     
  35. rozzom

    rozzom Defender (687) Jan 22, 2011 New York
    Trader

    Definitely not the savior. But the ones that are done well are enjoyable

    @pro100 - in your opinion what was the first NEIPA that began this savior process?
     
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  36. ndepriest

    ndepriest Initiate (199) Feb 21, 2012 Georgia
    Trader

    Lots (most?) of these beers are released with loads of diacetyl as they're being packaged before fermentation has completed thanks to hop creep. I would call that unfinished.
     
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  37. Dragginballs76

    Dragginballs76 Poo-Bah (1,859) Nov 13, 2015 South Carolina
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    I agree with you on this completely, this makes a big difference for me on how well I like the beer. It can have the looks but if it don't have the body I am usually not a fan.
     
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  38. TongoRad

    TongoRad Poo-Bah (2,436) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
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    I try to be selective, but even so have found that I'm at 30-40% of a chance to get d in these beers. Or, would be, if I was still buying them.
     
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  39. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (778) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Are packages exploding? Although hop creep is obviously a thing, it appears to only be a thing with certain varietals, read: not all of them. As far as VDKs go, I've never experience this first hand and can't really wrap my head around why it would happen as there are still yeast in suspension in these beers. The problem with above threshold diacetyl tends to be with yeast strains that flocculate early, not ones that stay in suspension.
     
  40. ndepriest

    ndepriest Initiate (199) Feb 21, 2012 Georgia
    Trader

    Fermentation from hop creep isn't vigorous enough to cause exploding cans or really even a detrimental amount of carbonation. And lots of people aren't sensitive to diacetyl so it just comes off as a general sweetness. Because of that, VDKs has before a somewhat acceptable flaw in hazy IPAs, though I have heard of some conferences popping up addressing the issue.
     
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