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Discussion in 'Beer It Forward' started by ejyoung, Mar 13, 2012.

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  1. Duffman929

    Duffman929 Initiate (167) Nov 27, 2010 Illinois
    Trader

    I might have a guy, if we still need 1. Said he was interested in an auction league, knows baseball, and I'll spot his beer. Are we still looking?

    Also, might I toss out a suggestion of having a regular season winner and a playoff winner if we do H2H? So many variables can happen in the playoffs with H2H.

    And did we decide on if we are doing keepers?
     
  2. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    I know Carbon was checking on it tonight to see if his friend was in. If not, I'm cool with you inviting your friend to join.

    I also like the regular season and playoff - we did something similar in FF. The regular season only got one pick I think though.
     
  3. DStoked

    DStoked Initiate (152) Sep 28, 2011 Ohio
    Trader

    Is this full?
     
  4. CarbonIS

    CarbonIS Initiate (0) Feb 13, 2010 Pennsylvania

    I've got another person so we should be good to go. His name is colt45_2011 on here.
     
  5. Colt45_2011

    Colt45_2011 Initiate (0) Mar 17, 2012

    I'll do it. Why not? :slight_smile:
     
  6. Duffman929

    Duffman929 Initiate (167) Nov 27, 2010 Illinois
    Trader

    I don't know how many we have now with Colt, but the nice part about roto would be the ability to have an odd number of people. At this point, I really don't care because the time works for me and it is an auction draft.
     
  7. RealZombieJesus

    RealZombieJesus Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2010 Texas

    Just wanted to point out my league's draft is at 1 cdt not 1 est, though with it being a snake draft I'm sure your time will be more than fan especially if everyone shows up.
     
  8. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    Hey all, I will put together the final list of people tomorrow when I get back from CA. Doing it on my phone is not ideal. But send me what bottles you are thinking of including so I can compile a list. I also need your email addresses so I can invite you to the espn league it looks like.

    Everyone who is interested can send me this. We might have 12 people interested.
     
  9. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    Okay I've sent invites to: juhl31, Photops, Duffman929 and osubuckeye99. I need email addresses and bottles that you'd like to put up sent from:

    CarbonIS
    Colt45_2011
    DrWalterWhite
    AReno00
    DStoked

    If all of you join then we'll have 10 exactly. homebrew had to pull out as another draft was at the same time.
     
  10. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    And I haven't finalized all the settings yet. Take a look at them and let me know what you think so far
     
  11. Phoptos

    Phoptos Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Massachusetts

    So we're doing keepers? I'm all for it as I'd love to keep this a regular thing with the same people (if possible)...signed up and ready to go...

    New England Topperheads
     
  12. Duffman929

    Duffman929 Initiate (167) Nov 27, 2010 Illinois
    Trader

    If we do keepers, I propose either of these options: X number of players you can keep for 3 years by adding on $5 to their value drafted (and that fixed amount will be what they cost for the next 3 years but you can drop them at any time and they lose the keeper ability) or X number of players you can keep by adding $3 each year you want to keep them, no max of years kept.

    Other thoughts/questions: Will there be room for more than 1 DL player? Since there is only a bench of 3, that makes it pretty tough if one team goes on a bad streak of injuries to not drop them to start a full team. And are non-drafted, free agent pickups able to be kept? If so, what is their dollar amount?
     
  13. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    I like the second keeper option, though could go for either. And I haven't finalized all the settings yet - I thought the bench looked a little small - would one more bench + one more DL be good? 2 more bench?

    It's a good question about non-drafted free agents for keepers. I'd say yes, and maybe we use the ESPN amount for next year plus whatever we decide for regular keepers (+$5, +$3?)
     
  14. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    Looks like everyone I've sent invites to has signed up - still need info from:

    DrWalterWhite
    AReno00
    DStoked

    Beers + email.
     
  15. Phoptos

    Phoptos Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Massachusetts

    The keeper league I did last year was set up this way...just to have another option thrown in the mix...

    If the value of any drafted player is higher than the previous year, you get him at the average price of the two years.
    Example: Ben Zobrist is drafted for $10 in 2011. He is listed at $20 for the 2012 season. He can be kept for $15.

    If the value of any drafted player is lower than the previous year, he can only be kept at the previous year's value.
    Example: Carl Crawford is drafted for $30 in 2011. He is listed at $12 for 2012. He can be kept at $30.

    Any UNDRAFTED free agent acquired with a $0 value can be kept at ESPN preseason cost.
    Example: If you acquired Alex Avila last year at $0 off the waiver wire and his preseason value is $10, you keep him for $10.

    If you pick someone up on waivers that was originally drafted, the value he was drafted for follows him into the next season. Any current year value is kept attached to a player with any trades as well.

    Example: If someone drafts Josh Beckett at $10 and then decides he still drinks too much in the clubhouse and drops him but someone else thinks he'll pull it together in September and come back next year in fine fashion, his $10 value follows him no matter what.

    The whole trade/drafted free agent thing is a little fuzzy but I think that's the basis for it.

    With this all in place you're allowed to keep as many players as you want every year up to $100. You don't HAVE to spend $100 and any money you don't spend is placed back in your bank to use for the draft.

    Thoughts?

    Fred
     
  16. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    Hmm, that's an interesting way to do it. One question - do we need to decide the exact keeper rules right now? Like I said before, I've never done a keeper league so I don't know how it changes how you draft if you are planning a keeper league.
     
  17. Phoptos

    Phoptos Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Massachusetts

    I think it would be best to have it before the draft because if we have certain rules on how we're keeping them it might change the way we draft...maybe? Haha...I'm not gonna put up a fight if we don't have solid rules but it might save a headache later if people aren't clear come next season's draft...

    I don't want to assume this will happen but I have seen some mild complaining over not having official keeper rules like "I should be able to keep Player A for $5 even though he's worth $20 this year because there were no rules in place when I drafted him blah blah blah..." Not trying to stir a pot that doesn't exist yet, but when in doubt, have the rules at the beginning and don't give people a reason to start making up crazy shit...
     
  18. Phoptos

    Phoptos Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Massachusetts

    Ahhh shit...so apparently stupid me agreed to pick up a shift at the bar I work at for Sunday night...so I either auto draft or I'm out...don't want to hold up a whole draft just for me but if there's another time we can agree on, I'd be pumped...if not, I understand...let me know...I'll do my best to figure out all the options before I give up my spot. Might even have a friend draft for me...we'll see...
     
  19. Duffman929

    Duffman929 Initiate (167) Nov 27, 2010 Illinois
    Trader

    All rules, especially for keeper leagues, need to be established before draft so that people can draft accordingly. Now, if anyone wants to propose an amendment to the original rules after rules are set, the commish will shoot a message out to all parties and league majority must agree before a change occurs. Here is my opinion about H2H pitching....you don't need 9 slots every day. Realistically, on a team with a roster of 25 and starting 11 offensive players, you only have a max of 14 pitchers from there on out. There is a for sure strategy that I can think of that will take advantage of the 9 P slots per day. I recommend having 6 or 7 P slots, 2 of which have to be SP's and 2 of which have to be RP's. That makes it more fair and that way there is an actual bench without having to increase the length of the draft or more DL spots. All rules not specifically covered by us can be default ESPN rules too, to cover the commish's ass.

    Regarding the keepers, I like the "if you get a waiver wire player that wasn't drafted, and you want to keep him, it is the ESPN preseason dollar amount for the next year." Otherwise, I say non-drafted players are not keeper worthy. I am in the mindset that teams that have a higher waiver position should not benefit after that year just because. It decreases the value of drafting players and having foresight. People that draft guys should be the ones with the advantage. If I decide to draft a prospect and build for the future, I should get the benefit over some random luck of swiping a guy on the FA list. Just my thoughts.

    I kind of like the idea of "you have up to X amount of dollars to use on keepers and you can keep as many players as you want with that cash." Whatever money you use gets subtracted from $260 for the next season and that is what you start with for the auction. It puts more emphasis on having people keep non-stud players too. Just add $3 from the previous year and that is what they will cost. What do you all think of that? As for trades, when you trade, you get the player at the value they were drafted or kept that year and you can choose to keep them from there on by adding the $3 or not. FA's will follow the same rules we decide from above.
     
  20. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    I could maybe do Saturday morning but it sounds like Sunday works out okay for most people. Come on Fred! We can't have you out so you gotta figure it out.
     
  21. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    So if we only have 7 slots total for pitchers instead of the 9 that were defaulted, do we still keep a 25 man roster with the extra two slots becoming bench slots? I'm cool with this.

    I like these keeper rules. Preseason dollar amount for a waiver wire player. If you draft a player and want to keep them, you will add $3 to the previous year price. It sounds like using $100 for keepers for next year with this pricing would be a good way to do it. The trade rule sounds good to me too. This is what I will plan on for keepers.
     
  22. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    Also, the league default settings had 13 offensive players starting as it included a middle IF and corner IF. Do we want to keep these spots or just start 11 players?
     
  23. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    My only other question regarding keepers is how we actually set it up for next year. I don't know what kind of functionality ESPN.com has in this regard. It doesn't seem like there is a way to specify that keepers are +$3, that depending on who you keep you have that much less $$ to start with, etc. Or it doesn't seem like there's a way to set how much $$ each team starts with.
     
  24. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    Question on schedule - is what I have set okay? Think it was the default setup.
     
  25. Phoptos

    Phoptos Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Massachusetts

    I'll figure it out unless we can do Saturday morning or an hour or 2 earlier on Sunday. Either way I'll make it work.
     
  26. jh1982

    jh1982 Initiate (0) Mar 3, 2004 Nevada

    is this league closed now..........wondering if you might have 2 openings available?
     
  27. Phoptos

    Phoptos Initiate (0) Mar 11, 2011 Massachusetts

    Love the rules, great work guys...

    Again, I'll make it work for making the draft...I would love it if we could bump it earlier on Sunday 1 or 2 hours if possible...that way I can at least get a list going and get a feel for the draft and how it's flowing...
     
  28. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    If we could get two more I think we'd be up for that. We only have 10 right now. Since it is head to head we'd need two.

    If you are interested, send me a message with what beers you'd be putting in and your email addresses.
     
  29. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    Could we start at 3pm eastern instead of 4pm? I know we said 3:30 originally but ESPN only does it on the hour so I picked 4pm.
     
  30. DrWalterWhite

    DrWalterWhite Initiate (0) Jan 25, 2012 Illinois

    Fine by me.
     
  31. Duffman929

    Duffman929 Initiate (167) Nov 27, 2010 Illinois
    Trader

    Fine with me. Does anyone know if ESPN allows you to set the value of each keeper for the next year? I've never used them for baseball, so if we are going to have our keepers in this fashion, we have to have a fair amount of control over what info we can put into the system. Also, what did we decide on CI and MI? I don't have a problem with it, as long as we reduce the pitchers to 6 or 7 from 9. 5 bench spots with 1 DL should be plenty and we won't have to increase the draft length.
     
  32. DrWalterWhite

    DrWalterWhite Initiate (0) Jan 25, 2012 Illinois

    Not sure if I'm following you. You want to reduce pitching if we don't have CI/MI or the other way around? I think the way it's set up at the moment is standard and would like to keep it that way. If anything, I'd like to see the bench shortened or even eliminated.
     
  33. Duffman929

    Duffman929 Initiate (167) Nov 27, 2010 Illinois
    Trader

    The 2nd of your choices. I am saying that if we reduce pitching to 6 or 7 slots, that frees up 2 or 3 spots to carry backups for offensive players that might get hurt. With 13 starting spots, that is a lot to fill and a greater chance of players getting hurt, and if there are also 9 pitching slots, that leaves only a bench of 3 plus 1 DL. Minimal bench slots in a keeper league make it hard to maximize your draft and if a team decides they want to build for next year, it is limiting while still being able to have a semi-competitive squad in the current season.
     
  34. DrWalterWhite

    DrWalterWhite Initiate (0) Jan 25, 2012 Illinois

    I like that teams will have to make tough choices. With 10 teams and both leagues, there will always be talent on the waiver wire. Also, if you get rid of CI/MI, then it also makes sense to get rid of two outfield spots.
     
  35. Duffman929

    Duffman929 Initiate (167) Nov 27, 2010 Illinois
    Trader

    I'm pretty open to most things, I just want them clear so that way I can have a draft strategy for what the settings are. I don't care if we have a short bench, just means that the waiver wire becomes more important. If we keep the settings as is, that is fine with me....I just like talking as a league so that everyone has a say in what goes on. Keeps people active too.
     
  36. DStoked

    DStoked Initiate (152) Sep 28, 2011 Ohio
    Trader

    Draft Time: If this is still up for discussion, I can't really do anything Saturday. I'll be at the Jackie O's beer release in the morning, and busy all afternoon/evening. Sunday seems wide open.

    Keeper Rules: I haven't been following along on this thread closely enough to figure out if something firm has been established. I just posted something on the league homepage with my suggestion. Basically, I like the author's idea in this article. I'm flexible and honestly don't care what the rules are, HOWEVER I fully agree with Duff that the ALL rules need to be firmly established before the draft. Someone will inevitably be get pissed otherwise. It's too hard to follow along in this forum format. I know this sounds like I'm being a huge pain in the ass, but I think someone should draft an actual document and email it out to everyone 24 hrs before the draft. The league will be SO much better if everything is clear to everyone.

    I'm really excited for this, and hope we can keep it going for a long time.
    Cheers,
    Dave
     
  37. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    Yeah, the draft will be at 3pm eastern on Sunday so you should be good there. We do have 12 teams now, so I'm not sure if we should adjust settings at all based on that, but I think I'd like to keep it how it is. Here is the roster positions:

    Catcher (C)
    1
    First Base (1B)
    1
    Second Base (2B)
    1
    Third Base (3B)
    1
    Shortstop (SS)
    1
    Middle Infielder (2B/SS)
    1
    Corner Infielder (1B/3B)
    1
    Outfield (OF)
    5
    Utility (UTIL)
    1
    Pitcher (P)
    3
    Starting Pitcher (SP)
    2
    Relief Pitcher (RP)
    2
    Bench (BE)
    5
    Disabled List (DL)
    1

    Total of 25 players. We are playing head to head, each category. Categories are runs scored, batting average, stolen bases, HR, RBI, ERA, WHIP, wins, saves, and strikeouts.

    Daily rosters, waiver wire claims are set to 3 days (move to last after you claim someone).

    I haven't been able to figure out how ESPN works for it yet, but keeper rules are listed in the notes part of keepers on the league site:

    Right now the league is set at 20 weeks, with 4 teams making the playoffs (each matchup is 2 weeks). This is basically the default setting, so if we want to change this let me know. Now that we have 12 do we want another team or two to make it?
     
  38. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    That is an interesting idea about using the price guide to help determine a keeper price, especially for players that come out of nowhere. I could be up for that, but I think I like the way we have it as it rewards good managing.
     
  39. DStoked

    DStoked Initiate (152) Sep 28, 2011 Ohio
    Trader

    I think the price guide rewards good managing too, but is also more reasonable. It gives you better options for keeper strategy too.

    For example, if I pay market price for an established player whose production would be expected to be consistent for the next few years, a keeper league should give me the option to keep him for a few years for a reasonable/market price. Using the automatic +$3 rule means his price will probably be too expensive in the future, but the guide will let me keep him at a consistent price, which seems fair to me. The price increase is designed (poorly, imho) to prevent owners from getting too much of an advantage from cheap prospects.

    With prospects, the guide method is an effective way to give the owner the benefit of buying low but also keep a player's price from being ridiculously low.

    So say I buy Pujols for $40, and he continues to be worth $40 for the next 4 years. Shouldn't I be able to keep him for approximately what I paid, rather that having to pay $49 3 years from now?

    Then say I buy prospect Z for $1 this year, and next year he's worth $15, and the year after $30. It seems more balanced that I pay $8 in year two and $15.33 (I think) in year three, rather than $4 in year two and $7 in year 3.

    This is just my opinion (pirated from someone else) and I won't quit or be mad if you choose not to use it. Just throwing it out there.
     
  40. ejyoung

    ejyoung Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2005 Arizona

    I suppose that's true. I'd be cool with that. What does everyone else think?
     
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