Mahou-San Miguel Group to acquire majority stake in Founders Brewing

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by TomCat11, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    If you were the brewer, yes it may.
     
    #81 drtth, Aug 30, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  2. rgordon

    rgordon Meyvn (1,091) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    Or rather, looks like it did disappear. Cat on the keyboard to the tune Mirror in the Bathroom...............
     
  3. grandrapidian

    grandrapidian Initiate (11) Nov 21, 2016

    So, typically acquisition non-competes/non-solicits are for a period of 2-years. Employee non-competes would usually be voided upon acquisition (as I mentioned earlier this is probably Mahou “buying the assets” through a new LLC/Corp. vs. a stock deal since those are taxed differently and require the absorption of Founders’ liabilities (debt/product liability/etc.). Mike, Dave, maybe John probably have 2-year retainers and non-competes, but after that will be free to do what they want. Also, these agreements are typically voided if any termination occurs.

    Finally, in response to all the press releases, no way does Founders stay “independent.” Even if the management team stays intact, there will be obvious synergies that the company hopes to realize and at the end of the day, the management team will have to answer the Mahou’s profit expectation. People don’t often realize that buyouts are investments and the motivation behind this is either to grow sales or increase profits (through reduced costs) or both.
     
  4. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Way higher? Unlikely. a Bourbon Barrel Aged beer will almost always cost more and increase in price faster, if only because the price of used barrels has gone up, not to mention the labor cost increases, the costs of warehousing and the lost opportunity costs while the beer is sitting around for several months generating nothing but expenses, etc., etc.
     
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  5. RKP1967

    RKP1967 Aspirant (298) Sep 26, 2010 Virginia

    Anybody remember when the price per ounce of Bourbon County was only slightly more than KBS, when they both came in a four pack?
     
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  6. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Meyvn (1,011) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey

    No because that was back when both were too hard together in NJ.
     
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  7. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    You mean back in the day when one almost had to live within sight of the brewery to be able to buy any of either?? Sure.

    Paid $21 for my first 4 pack of BCBS in 09 at a specialty shop while visiting Ann Arbor, Michigan. A couple of years later, on a visit to Lexington KY, I came across my first 4 pack of KBS at about $24 bucks a four pack and passed.

    Keep in mind that the price you pay is set by the retailer, not the Brewery.
     
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  8. RKP1967

    RKP1967 Aspirant (298) Sep 26, 2010 Virginia

    I am so sorry you have to live in New Jersey. I have alway gotten all the BCBS and KBS I have wanted here in Virginia. And at one time 5-7 years ago (before the AB InBev buyout), they were in comparably priced four packs. But sure, blame the disproportionate price increase in price for BCBS on increased barrel price and labor costs.
     
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  9. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    They still were/are in comparably priced 4 packs when in 12oz bottles. Except perhaps where you live.

    The asking price for either 4 pack at Total Wine is/was $24.00 per.
     
    #89 drtth, Aug 31, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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  10. dele

    dele Initiate (73) Mar 13, 2019 Massachusetts

    A wonderful thing about craft beer is that one can choose to buy exceptionally good products, even many that are nationally distributed, and know that their money is being reinvested into a community's thriving. That community might be my own here in MA, or it might be that of Chico, CA, Comstock, MI, or Fort Collins, CO. In any of these cases, whether I buy local or national, my money is supporting good jobs and contributing to the maintenance or expansion of an American economy and the wellbeing of American workers. It's not going to line the pockets of international investors who will do nothing to help my community or others here in this country, and whose priority will be on driving wages and community investment outlays down, not up.

    Founders will likely still make good beer, and I might even buy some of it occasionally. But its days are over as a standard part of my rotation. Nothing against its owners, I congratulate them and wish them well. But the bulk of my beer spending will always be dedicated to breweries whose profits are being reinvested into the communities that have supported them. Founders is no longer in that group.
     
  11. oldbean

    oldbean Disciple (364) Jun 30, 2005 Massachusetts

    Here's a good example:

    Maybe the best pils in America right now, and it makes zero sense to brew it from a business perspective. The best beer, the best bread, the best cheese, the best tacos, whatever it is, they inevitably come from people who have a passion and a pride in craftsmanship that goes beyond just what's required to be profitable. You don't get that under corporate ownership.
     
    #91 oldbean, Sep 3, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  12. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Poo-Bah (2,124) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona
    Society Trader

    If the beer does not change I really don't care who owns it. If the beer changes and is not the same product then I will just stop buying it. Until this happens oh well, its just business.
     
  13. montman

    montman Devotee (419) Mar 10, 2009 Virginia
    Trader

    haha, pretty accurate, I saw KBS 4pk's still on the shelves just yesterday at a local Whole Foods. Coinciding with FB posts about how Founders sucks now.
     
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  14. TimfromGR

    TimfromGR Initiate (78) Apr 11, 2013 Michigan

    Mad props to the folks at Good Beer Hunting for their headline, "Nobody Expects the Spanish Acquisition!" :grin:
     
  15. Rdubya87

    Rdubya87 Initiate (49) Feb 10, 2014 California

    I've got no real love for Founders as a company but I think this is misguided and this topic has been on my mind for a while now. Like it or not, these large Craft brewers being acquired are responsible for an outsized amount of the economic benefits you are talking about. These big acquired Craft breweries employ a ton on American workers, are engaging in new-to-Craft marketing activities that support 3rd party businesses across the country, they are ramping up community giving to try to maintain relevancy in the more-and-more important home markets, etc. Sure, there is some amount of profit (under 15% of revenue) that might be flowing out of the domestic economy but often times that is being re-invested in local capital improvements (trickle down effect w/ construction, manufacturing, etc.) and some of the previously mentioned marketing activities.

    A lot of words to say this: hold these acquired breweries accountable to continue supporting their original home markets and communities, to continue brewing in their original spaces, and to hire local workers and pay them fair wages. However, I think the view that by default these companies are providing less to both their local and the national economies than your 500 bbl brewery down the street is not a fair characterization.
     
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  16. Lorimar24

    Lorimar24 Aspirant (215) Dec 22, 2016 Iowa

    First of all I'm sad, But Understand the the money dangled in front of them. I just hope it doesn't change anything. I love Founders beers and the brewery is on my bucket list to visit one day. I hope the new leadership does not change for the worse and the brand lessens.
     
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  17. TVCII

    TVCII Initiate (47) Dec 9, 2014 California

    Once you go beyond trading bottles of homebrew it's just a business, subject to business rules. Good that a founder gets his big payday. The rest of us are just spectators.
     
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  18. gshak

    gshak Zealot (533) Feb 20, 2011 Texas

    Logged in just to like this comment.
     
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  19. LarryV

    LarryV Poo-Bah (2,064) Jun 13, 2001 Massachusetts
    Society

    Well, I"m not elated over this news but I get it. Centennial IPA is my go to beer at the moment, if they decide to mess with it or raise prices significantly I'll just find a new favorite, it wouldn't be my first time.
     
  20. scurfie

    scurfie Initiate (145) Apr 6, 2007 Pennsylvania

    It's funny to me that as these older "craft" brewers sell out, about 15 new breweries startup.
     
  21. yakc130

    yakc130 Initiate (69) Mar 7, 2011 Ohio

    I was talking with a guy the other day who told me about this. He said that he had heard that CBS was going to be discontinued after the next run.

    Anyone else hear this?
     
  22. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

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  23. gueuzegeek

    gueuzegeek Disciple (309) Aug 11, 2003 New Jersey

  24. GlennFreeman

    GlennFreeman Initiate (36) Dec 2, 2017 Michigan
    Deactivated

    IMO, the percentage they still own about matches the pecentage of their beers worth drinking.
     
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  25. Sparty93

    Sparty93 Initiate (57) Aug 29, 2013 Michigan

    Agree. It's not like they're somehow magically picking up two production facilities and moving them to Spain. Still using (I assume) the same material pipelines of American ingredients, still employing a significant amount of people in both GR and Detroit, etc.
     
  26. officerbill

    officerbill Zealot (591) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Society Trader

    Could full ownership by a EU company make it easier & cheaper to distribute Founder's in the EU?
     
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  27. GimmeAGuinness

    GimmeAGuinness Defender (605) Sep 1, 2005 Massachusetts
    Fest Crew Society

    If they mess with Breakfast Stout, I'm starting a revolt!
     
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  28. BeerBobber

    BeerBobber Defender (628) Nov 23, 2015 Nevada

    If the recipes stay the same it really doesn't matter who controls the purse strings. Maybe they could even lower the prices a bit to sell more of the product and make more profit.
     
  29. NickTheGreat

    NickTheGreat Crusader (782) Oct 28, 2010 Iowa
    Society Trader

    This saddens me. I don't blame the guys at Founders, and I'd love to sell my brewery for a crapload of $$$.

    I'll still buy as much Founders as usual, provided it tastes good. But it doesn't make me want to drink more of it.
     
  30. maxlogan

    maxlogan Initiate (106) Jan 26, 2007 New Hampshire

    so why weigh in? stupid!
     
  31. CaptainHate

    CaptainHate Crusader (754) Apr 22, 2006 Ohio

    I agree. I'm not as much of a Platform detractor as others here but they're just not on the same national reputation for quality level as Founders, Goose Island or Wicked Weed.
     
  32. dele

    dele Initiate (73) Mar 13, 2019 Massachusetts

    Good post, thanks. I hope you are right and I would love to see any data that is available on the topic. My concern is that with outside control and the emphasis on short term profits that multinational companies usually bring, there will be a lot of downward pressure on wages in these large production facilities. It's been pointed out several times on this web site that Budweiser is a union shop that pays great wages, while Trillium tried to give its employees the shaft and would have if not for public outcry, so obviously not all big companies and brewers are bad in this respect. But in general I think there's still something to be said for buying products whose revenues will support US economies.
     
  33. Oktoberfiesta

    Oktoberfiesta Aspirant (283) Nov 16, 2013 New Mexico
    Trader

    Congrats Founders founders. For mahou, I truly question what they see as the future

    You're already in 47 states. Just like ballast point, so much of those growth figures are from new points of sale. Unless you vgo global,'its all downhill for the US market.

    I'll still buy FBS but everything else is replaceable in my marketplace with local options .

    Absolut perfect time to get out. I don't think it can be said enough.
     
    #113 Oktoberfiesta, Sep 4, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  34. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (4,006) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Why would sales go downhill rather than flatten and stabilize in a slowly growing and/or saturated market?
     
  35. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,718) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Perhaps you answered your own question here?

    Cheers!
     
  36. Oktoberfiesta

    Oktoberfiesta Aspirant (283) Nov 16, 2013 New Mexico
    Trader

    Yeah I guess I should've said stabilize or plateau. In mahous eyes they have to be seeing that type of growth and want it to continue

    Realistically; every brewery to have entered my market saw a big burst for 3-4 months then a straight drop off. With no more "bursts", sales may even see a small slip. Dips or straight lines aren't great when you just invested millions. They better have a backup plan. Their US market is capped IMHO.
     
  37. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Poo-Bah (1,579) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    I'd imagine msm sees a steady profitable brand that they know well and are comfortable about remaining stably profitable into the future. They also probably value the US distro network as a good point of entry for their other brands and I would expect are looking to spread founders into their global network.
     
  38. officerbill

    officerbill Zealot (591) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Society Trader

    I was thinking that being wholely owned by an EU company would make it easier & cheaper to import Founder's beers into the EU. Maybe even brew them at some of the Mahous-San Miguel facilities. How about Centennial India Pale Ale from their Indian brewery?
     
  39. rgordon

    rgordon Meyvn (1,091) Apr 26, 2012 North Carolina

    That is a thoughtful and well written observation/opinion and I agree wholeheartedly!
     
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  40. bigalspangler

    bigalspangler Initiate (109) Mar 26, 2006 Tennessee

    I'm just finishing up my last two bottles of KBS right now. I really love Founders Porter and Centennial IPA, and as long as those don't change, I guess I'm ok with it.