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Novice/Advanced Homebrewers

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by goodonezach, Feb 23, 2012.

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  1. goodonezach

    goodonezach Initiate (0) Mar 24, 2011 New York

    I like the idea of having two homebrewing forums, but where's the line?
  2. nathanjohnson

    nathanjohnson Initiate (0) Aug 5, 2007 Vermont

    Is it really important? Use your judgment.
  3. Gueuzedude

    Gueuzedude Initiate (0) Aug 21, 2003 Arizona

    The way I look at it the novice forum is for those who just started.... and for those who have been doing it long enough that they know they don't know anything, while the Advanced forum is for those the have done it for a little while and now think they know everything (isn't that the way forums usually work :wink:)
    WickedSluggy and HumuloneRed like this.
  4. rocdoc1

    rocdoc1 Aspirant (268) Jan 13, 2006 New Mexico

    That's why I'm on this side:wink:
    But I thought this idea had been discussed and shot down before. I like interacting with the new brewers, not only can I give advice but I always learned from their questions and the replies. Stupid threads I just ignored. now I'll have to go back and forth between the groups, wasting more of my valuable work day.
    MontpelierArtie and wspscott like this.
  5. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,449) Dec 2, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    hopefully, novice will be the place where various helpful threads and links are stickied to help out aspiring homebrewers.

    as for distinguishing between novice and advanced, hopefully (and this is the big hope) this will be determined by the poster of the question, and responders won't be dicks about it or spend all day arguing about what's novice and what's advanced.

    in other words, yes, "VERY ACTIVE FERMENTATION; NO BLOW OFF TUBE!?" is going to be posted in advanced. posting duplicate topics or having epic arguments about "that belongs in novice!!!" is not the answer :slight_frown:.


    re: where's the line between novice and advanced homebrewer, i'm not sure, but i'm well on the side of novice. like, not even close to the line. edit: and i'll probably post in advanced more than novice, if that gives any indication of what the distinction means (ie not much).
  6. skivtjerry

    skivtjerry Zealot (523) Mar 10, 2006 Vermont

    I have always discriminated between the two on the old forum; it's usually pretty obvious. My practice has been to pick one beginner question per day or so to reply to, hoping to help someone out, and then do my arcane bullshitting with those who obviously know what they're doing. This new format will actually help me do this.

    BTW, I celebrated 25 years of homebrewing this month. I have not poisoned anyone or had a single bottle bomb, so I must be 'advanced':slight_smile:

    Edit: didn't mean to quote rocdoc in my reply; it will take me a day or 2 to get used to this newfangled stuff.
  7. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Aspirant (267) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia

    This would require a moderator to make it work.
    Since it's work...it might not work.

    Take it away Todd...
  8. malweth

    malweth Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2007 Rhode Island

    There are milestones that some brewers will reach:
    1. Have you brewed all grain?
    2. Have you entered a contest?
    3. Brewed any difficult beers?
    4. etc.

    Any one of these could qualify you for the advanced forum, IMO.
    Experience is important but experience isn't everything.

    I've been making various sorts of alcohol for over a year now. I don't know everything by any means and I haven't solved all my problems (next steps: temp control, better work environment), but I think anyone who's no longer naively looking for brew kits and beginner equipment could benefit from more advanced discussion.
  9. Ejayz

    Ejayz Initiate (0) May 15, 2011 Iowa

    Beginner or advanced does it really matter? We are all home brewers and both groups need each other! (at least this is how I feel about it) I can already see there is going to be nothing gained by separating homebrewers into two groups.
  10. charlesw

    charlesw Initiate (0) May 14, 2003 New York

    I'm having a bit of trouble with the split - I don't know where I should lurk.
    jctribe25 likes this.
  11. epk

    epk Initiate (145) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    As stated in this thread: http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/nice-looking-forum.3/#post-3294

    I don't like it. I don't mind subforums, but I much rather see them as axeman9182 suggested (in linked thread) as something along the lines of:
    • Ingredients/Recipes
    • Equipment
    • Processes/Techniques
    • General Homebrew Talk
    Maybe Ingredients can even be moved with Processes/Techniques and the Recipe sub forum can be specifically for reviewing recipes.
  12. pweis909

    pweis909 Poo-Bah (1,599) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Supporter Subscriber

    I agree with Charles. I sort of liked having the forum in one place, so that I could easily pick and choose what I wanted to read and comment on. Sometimes the topic was an "advanced" and sometimes it was "novice." In other homebrewing fora (e.g., AHA, Brewing Network, etc) I find myself not sorting through all the different subcategories. Seems like work (even though it's just pointing a mouse cursor and clicking). I guess I'll have to adjust my browsing habits. I hope there continues to be advanced homebrewers providing insight to novices, and like Pahn said, I hope we don't see much quibbling about where a thread really belongs.
  13. epk

    epk Initiate (145) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Thats a good point to. It was easy to just have one big forum to pick and choose from. I don't visit homebrew talk much as there is just so much going on (and when I did, it was usually just label design).

    I still think a "recipe review" sub forum is not a bad idea. I think it would be nice to have them all sorted nicely in one spot. This way, someone who is just looking for recipe ideas can hop on there and have plenty to look through.
  14. goodonezach

    goodonezach Initiate (0) Mar 24, 2011 New York

    i've mostly been popping back and forth between novice and advanced, and there doesn't seem to be a huge difference between the two.
  15. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,328) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Personally, that sort of breakdown is the reason I mostly avoid a certain other popular forum. Too much work to jump around.
  16. epk

    epk Initiate (145) Jun 10, 2008 New Jersey

    Yea, after I gave it a second though, I agree. I still don't think we need novice/advanced though.
  17. bwiechmann

    bwiechmann Initiate (96) Nov 30, 2009 Minnesota

    I agree with VikeMan that the sub-categories has gotten out of control in some forums and that we should try and avoid that here. However, I think it would be great if we broke it into two and had a Recipe sub-category and a General Homebrew Talk sub-category.
  18. quirkzoo

    quirkzoo Initiate (0) Jul 7, 2011 Colorado

    I think the difference should be as much about the question as it is the poster's status. For example I just posted a question about a broken auto-siphon. Doesn't really seem like an advanced question to me so I put it in the beginner forum. Before the forums went down, I asked a question about three BIAB scenarios, from my perspective that was an advanced question because only an advanced homebrewer could fill me in on the relative advantages of the scenarios I was proposing. With that said, I can see now that although my broken auto-siphon question might be simple, it might be only an advanced brewer that would be able to answer it. So, I think I agree with the Recipe and General division instead of Beginner and Advanced.
  19. SenorHops

    SenorHops Initiate (0) Aug 10, 2010 Rhode Island

    I agree that this is a little confusing for many. Not really sure it's necessary. I've got about 15 batches under my belt since last April of various styles. Have studied brewing relatively extensively. Haven't moved to all grain yet. I wouldn't consider myself a novice or advanced.
  20. geezerpk

    geezerpk Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2010 South Carolina

    and can explain to you why everything you're doing is wrong.:wink:
  21. axeman9182

    axeman9182 Initiate (0) Aug 5, 2009 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    I agree, I liked the speed the old homebrewing forum moved at with everything all in together. If we presuppose that they want to have more than one forum though, I think the HBT method of dividing it up is better than this (though we don't need nearly as many subforums as they have)
  22. NiceFly

    NiceFly Aspirant (275) Dec 22, 2011 Tajikistan

    Additionally, why is the HB forum at the bottom of the page? Just kidding, sort of.:confused:
    I also liked just one forum for the reasons stated above.
  23. Gueuzedude

    Gueuzedude Initiate (0) Aug 21, 2003 Arizona

    Hey, at least it is one step above the trading forums :grinning:
  24. koopa

    koopa Poo-Bah (1,825) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    I prefer having 1 forum over 2 myself, but I like to interpret the line between the "novice" and "advanced" forums as a line between questions about "novice brewing techniques" and "advanced brewing techniques" rather than interpreting the two forums as a line between "novice brewers" and "advanced brewers" actually.
  25. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    I think that might define the line. If you have ever mopped your ceiling and/or you know how to prevent having to do it in the future, you are advanced. If a clogged airlock comes as a shock to you, you are a novice.
    mschofield and malweth like this.
  26. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 Initiate (0) May 11, 2007 Minnesota

    Who cares where the line is? To me, if I didn't have the help of experienced brewers starting out where would I be today? Maybe it isn't that big of a deal, but I think that novice homebrewers can only benefit from experienced discussions.

    Not a fan of splitting it up.
    bwiechmann and HerbMeowing like this.
  27. leedorham

    leedorham Crusader (701) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    After a few days using the site, I am still not a fan of them being separate. I've yet to see a real benefit of the division and it's a hassle to switch between forums looking for interesting threads.
  28. geezerpk

    geezerpk Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2010 South Carolina

    I tend to agree. I've gone to trying the "What's New" tab as a shortcut to newer topics across the broader spectrum.
  29. charlesw

    charlesw Initiate (0) May 14, 2003 New York

    A careful study of the first page of threads for each group shows that there is a big difference: twice as many people who start threads in the beginner group do not have an avatar. Further research is required to determine why this enormous discrepancy exists. We have missed the deadline for starting to apply for this year's NSF grants but I'd be happy to work on starting a pre-proposal for next year's round of grants. Provided that the two groups continue to exist we might be able to extract some useful and interesting information (or at least some grant money to buy us some spiffy new computers we can use while conducting our study).
  30. MookDawg

    MookDawg Initiate (0) Aug 15, 2009 Vermont

    I think one of the best benefits with the old forum was being a newbie and having access to all sorts of advanced/experienced homebrewers that are willing to answer basic questions. I've tried to return the favor as much as I can.
  31. charlesw

    charlesw Initiate (0) May 14, 2003 New York

    I see what you did, there (add an avatar, that is).

    The newbies will probably not get to benefit from my lurking...

    Technically there has to be a simple way to make it so that all that I would like to see would be in one place despite the fact that it's in two (or however many) groups. But I can survive without that. And, hey, only lurking on one group keeps the volume of stuff I look at down, too.
  32. cracker

    cracker Disciple (300) May 2, 2004 Pennsylvania

    Count me in as one that does not like the split.
  33. utahbeerdude

    utahbeerdude Disciple (375) May 2, 2006 Utah

    I would prefer going back to one homebrewing forum. I don't see any advantage to the current split.
  34. bwiechmann

    bwiechmann Initiate (96) Nov 30, 2009 Minnesota

    After using the site for a couple of days, the split between the homebrewing forums seems artificial and forced. There's really no difference between the two and just adds another subforum to look through.
  35. shaebs99

    shaebs99 Disciple (340) Sep 6, 2006 New York

    I also don't see a real advantage. I only just read the topics that interested me. I know just have to go through both forums. I would say that I am a novice as I wouldn't give out much advice, but still know that I will find topics that concern me in both forums.
    I can obviously deal with doing both, but figured I'd toss in my .02
    WickedSluggy likes this.
  36. kjyost

    kjyost Initiate (0) May 4, 2008 Manitoba (Canada)

    Generally I agree with the sentiments above.

    The difference is fake and forced, we get pretty n00b questions in advanced and pretty high end stuff in novice. I would prefer either no sub forums, or by type (recipes, etc...).

    That said I love the marking a forum read option! MAGIC!
    WickedSluggy likes this.
  37. WickedSluggy

    WickedSluggy Devotee (400) Nov 21, 2008 Texas
    Beer Trader

    I think it has to do with distinguishing between those who prefer aluminum kettles and those who, like professional brewers, use stainless steel.
    shaebs99 likes this.
  38. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 Initiate (0) May 11, 2007 Minnesota

    :rolling_eyes: I may have switched to a converted kettle, and swore by my aluminum to then. But for some reason I really like this post.
  39. Gueuzedude

    Gueuzedude Initiate (0) Aug 21, 2003 Arizona

    Ooo, I really like this comment as well....

    As it really reinforces my previous comment in this thread :wink:
  40. WickedSluggy

    WickedSluggy Devotee (400) Nov 21, 2008 Texas
    Beer Trader

    I was just joshin' y'all. But I've been brewing beer since I was seventeen back in '83. I'm still learning. In the scheme of things, I still no almost nothing ....but a lot more than most of you fools - yuk yuk! No, seriously though...still learning.
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