Nugget Nectar Clone

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by koopa, Mar 23, 2012.

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  1. koopa

    koopa Poo-Bah (1,825) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    I've been trying to put together a Nugget Nectar clone recipe (sans hop back) based off of the information listed on the Troegs site and was planning on brewing the following.

    One thing I was thinking about myself that is different than the recipe below was getting some Nugget in @ 30-20 minute range since the nugget FLAVOR is so big on Nugget Nectar.

    Feedback about grain %'s, hopping schedule, mashing temps, and fermenting temps appreciated!

    90 minute boil
    mash at 150F
    US05 fermented at 64F ambient for first 4-5 days and then ramped up to 70F over the next 2-3 days

    43.3% German Pilsner Malt
    28.4% Munich 20L Malt
    28.4% Vienna Malt

    0.5oz of Tomahawk @ 60

    0.5oz of Tomahawk @ 30
    0.5oz of Warrior @ 30
    0.5oz of Simcoe @ 30

    1.0oz of Nugget @ 15
    1.0oz of Palisades @ 15
    0.5oz of Simcoe @ 15

    1.0oz of Nugget @ 0
    1.0oz of Palisades @ 0
    1.0oz of Simcoe @ 0

    2.0oz of Nugget @ Dry Hop
    1.0oz of Warrior @ Dry Hop

    1.070 OG
    1.013 FG
    7.5% ABV
    94.2 IBU's
    11.4 SRM
  2. koopa

    koopa Poo-Bah (1,825) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Say maybe:


    0.5oz of Tomahawk @ 60

    1.0oz of Nugget @ 20
    0.5oz of Tomahawk @ 20
    0.5oz of Warrior @ 20
    0.5oz of Simcoe @ 20

    1.0oz of Nugget @ 10
    1.0oz of Palisades @ 10
    0.5oz of Simcoe @ 10

    1.0oz of Nugget @ 0
    1.0oz of Palisades @ 0
    1.0oz of Simcoe @ 0

    2.0oz of Nugget @ Dry Hop
    1.0oz of Warrior @ Dry Hop

    96 IBU's
  3. OddNotion

    OddNotion Devotee (478) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Search over on the Homebrewtalk boards, there are a few pretty in depth threads about a NN clone, some have come kinda close and other "clones" were way off.
  4. cracker

    cracker Disciple (300) May 2, 2004 Pennsylvania

    Mine came pretty close when I tried two years ago. It wasn't a dead ringer but still very tasty. I'll post it when I get home and have a chance to look it up. If I remember to...
  5. koopa

    koopa Poo-Bah (1,825) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Based on some reading I did at Homebrew Talk (thanks OddNotion), my own preferences, and my knowledge that I don't get as good hop utilization as commercial breweries, I'm now leaning towards the following hop bill:

    1oz Nugget @ 60

    1oz Warrior @ 30
    1oz Simcoe @ 30

    1oz Nugget @ 20
    1oz Tomahawk @ 20

    1oz Palisade @ 0
    1oz Tomahawk @ 0
    1oz Simcoe @ 0

    1oz Nugget @ Dry Hop
    1oz Warrior @ Dry Hop
    1oz Palisade @ Dry Hop

    126.6 Calculated IBU's
    (Troeg's aims for 93 IBU's)
  6. koopa

    koopa Poo-Bah (1,825) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Final Version (I promise! Feeling good about this one!)

    50% Pilsner Malt
    31.2% Munich 20L Malt
    18.8% Vienna Malt

    Mash @ 152F
    90 minute boil
    Chico Yeast

    7.5% ABV
    93'ish IBU's
    11.4 SRM

    1.00oz Warrior @ 60 minutes

    1.00oz Nugget @ 20 minutes
    1.00oz Tomahawk @ 20 minutes

    0.75oz Palisades @ 10 minutes
    0.75oz Simcoe @ 10 minutes

    3.00oz Nugget @ Flameout (unless you have a hopback!)

    2.00oz Nugget @ Dry Hop
    1.00oz Warrior @ Dry Hop
  7. DNuggs

    DNuggs Aspirant (281) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    If you're really looking for big Nugget flavor, try throwing some nugget hops in as FWH. You'll get a smoother bitterness from it as well as nugget flavor
    koopa likes this.
  8. koopa

    koopa Poo-Bah (1,825) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Nugget hops are low in cohumulone too, especially considering the high alpha acid level, so they should be a really good choice for FWH'ing. Good call! The only drawback I can foresee is that Nugget Nectar, arguably, has a fairly harsh bitterness and may not be the best fit for the smooth bitterness associated with FWH'ing. The flavor/aroma qualities FWH'ing is known for would be suitable for it though.
  9. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,416) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Too much crystal.
    Slatetank and OddNotion like this.
  10. mikehartigan

    mikehartigan Aspirant (292) Apr 9, 2007 Illinois

    this is one of the reasons I tend not to do clones. Even when I start out with that in mind, I tend to tweak things here and there to 'fix' the things that maybe are not exactly the way I would have designed it if it was my recipe to begin with. I tend to refer these beers as having been inspired by the commercial beer rather than calling it a clone (I likely wouldn't get it exactly right anyway :wink:)
  11. koopa

    koopa Poo-Bah (1,825) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    OK either Munich/Vienna malts don't count as crystal and you are incredibly funny (seeing as how the "crystal police" need a good poke now and then), or they do count as crystal and I'm just too new at homebrewing to think they do. I'm certainly new enough to second guess myself when you make a statement w/o a smiley face and wonder if you are being literal or not!

    If they do (which I doubt), do you have any other suggestions for how to get to an 11.4 SRM using only Pilsner, Vienna, and Munich malt?

    The "old" recipe from 2008 Zymurgy Magazine was:

    6.5 lbs Continental Pils Malt
    7.0 lbs Munich Malt
    5.0 oz Crystal 120L
    11.4 SRM

    The "new" recipe, as per the Troegs website makes no mention of containing the Crystal 120L anymore.
  12. koopa

    koopa Poo-Bah (1,825) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    That's why I just save one recipe in Beersmith called CLONE and another recipe called FWH ADAPTATION :slight_smile:
  13. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,416) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Sorry. Here it is. :slight_smile:
    koopa likes this.
  14. cracker

    cracker Disciple (300) May 2, 2004 Pennsylvania

    As promised, this is what I did. Came out quite nice. 5 gallon batch.
    OG 1.068 (my efficiency wasn't as good as expected) FG 1.019
    IBU 74

    10.00 lb Canada Malting 2 Row (3.0 SRM) Grain 61.24 %
    3.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 18.37 %
    3.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 18.37 %
    0.33 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2.02 %
    2.00 oz Nugget [14.10 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
    1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
    1.00 oz Nugget [14.10 %] (60 min) Hops 34.1 IBU
    1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] (20 min) Hops 18.6 IBU
    1.00 oz Nugget [14.10 %] (20 min) Hops 20.7 IBU
    1.25 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [16.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
    1.00 oz Palisade [7.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
    1 Pkgs American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [Starter 1500 ml] Yeast-Ale
  15. koopa

    koopa Poo-Bah (1,825) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Thanks for following up and sharing your recipe!
  16. psnydez86

    psnydez86 Disciple (363) Jan 4, 2012 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    After listening to the brewing networks talk with the troegner bros. they were asked about nugget nectar and said the recipe in Zymurgy a few years back was almost spot on as the guy who wrote the article is friends with the one troegner brother... In the bn segment the troegs boys did say that 80% Vienna malt will get you in the right direction which he said sounds totally ludicrous but isn't.
  17. mattsander

    mattsander Zealot (547) Feb 3, 2010 Alberta (Canada)
    Beer Trader

    I'd avoid dryhopping with Warrior - the little aroma they do impart isn't especially pleasant.
  18. Naugled

    Naugled Crusader (729) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    I've attempted NN clone a few times, and will continue to do so. The trickiest part is getting the right hop flavor profile. I think that once you get close on the hops, which I think you are, it's all technique after that. Meaning you've got to use a hop back or whirlpool the hops. I built a hop back and recirculated wort through that back into the kettle, and got good results. But after thinking about it, I realized I should be able to get the same results by just whirlpooling and skip the hop back. Which I'll be trying on my next attempt in the spring. I'm waiting for the 2012 Nuggets, I didn't think the 2011 Nuggets were as good as they have been in the past. But that's a different thread.

    Has anyone visited the Troegs brewery and seen their hop back? I'm curious on how they use it. Do they pass the wort once through? or recirculate? and at what temps do they do this? Does it start at a high temp and finish at a lower temp? etc. Does anyone have process details like that? I think that is where the secret lies.

    I've tried a few different malt bills, to me they didn't make much difference. This beer is definitely about the hops and how those hop flavors are extracted kept in the beer that define this beer, that's what you want to focus on IMO.
  19. DNuggs

    DNuggs Aspirant (281) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    I thought the whole point of a hop-back was to pass hot, near-boiling wort through a hop bed on it's way to the chiller to help retain hop aroma otherwise lost in an open container. Do you lose some of those aromatics if you're re-circulating back into your kettle?I haven't tried it myself yet though I just picked up a Hop Rocket and am anxious to try it. My usual process prior to this was to chill to 180-190 and recirculate for 10-15 minutes before continuing to chill.
  20. Naugled

    Naugled Crusader (729) Sep 25, 2007 New York

    I've seen hop backs used many ways, open systems, closed systems, recirculated and run straight through and at different temps. I agree with you that you'd lose some aromatics if you recirc back to the kettle, but you can always dry hop to get aromatics in that case. So I'm wondering if anybody knows what troegs hopback/whirlpool process is, the variations are practically infinite.

    I'm interested in hearing your experience with the Hop Rocket. I've looked at it, it's a beautiful piece of equipment, but my gut tells me it needs to have a higher capacity for leaf hops and from what I understand it doesn't work with pellets. Let me know when you try it out.
  21. DNuggs

    DNuggs Aspirant (281) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    I'm actually going to try putting pellets and some leaf in a hop bag with some SS bolts to weigh it down inside of the Rocket. I'm hoping this will allow normal wort flow and contact with the hops but prevent clogging of the Rocket itself. I've tried read some threads about others doing this with mixed results.
  22. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    I've used it with pellets sandwiched in between to layers of leaf hops and it worked out fine. I've used identical amounts of leaf hops in the same recipe both ways you mentioned, recirculating through the hop back vs. solely whirlpooling w/o a hop back, and theres really no difference in terms of hop flavor, however, the leaf hops in the hop back do provide an extra trub screen, so the wort I rack to the fermenter seems to contain even less particulate (its crystal clear) than wort coming from solely my whirlpool (Whirlpool is pump driven, comes back into the kettle tangentially).

    Other note, I wish it did have a bigger capacity. 3 oz of leaf hops is pushing it, and for a big DIPA, I'd like more room. I've seen some bigger homemade ones, but the ones available on the market seem to only hold 2-3 oz. I guess you could always run them in series :slight_smile:
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