News Old Nation Brewery was struggling. Then it made a beer called M-43.

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by moshea, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. moshea

    moshea Devotee (458) Jul 16, 2007 Michigan

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  2. IPAExpert69

    IPAExpert69 Initiate (149) Aug 2, 2017 New Jersey

    Love these kind of stories, let's hope they can use the success of M-43 to create even better beers moving forward!
     
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  3. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (780) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    And that's the issue with breweries having new or renewed success because of one type of beer. What happens when either the popularity of that beer style wanes or when a lot of other breweries jump on the bandwagon due to that style's popularity? I think we'll see a bubble burst with these one-trick-pony breweries before the overall craft beer bubble even thinks about it. Maybe it will even be the impetus for retraction?
     
  4. moshea

    moshea Devotee (458) Jul 16, 2007 Michigan

    I am not going to lie, I thought the same thing, but M-43 has quickly carved a huge market slice here in Michigan.
     
  5. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (780) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    How many other breweries are making a similar beer in Michigan? And canning it?
     
  6. moshea

    moshea Devotee (458) Jul 16, 2007 Michigan

    Everyone and their Michigan brother is making a NEIPA, I still see M43 on tap all over and people buying it in stores.

    Fad or not, M43 is very popular here and has been since the first running.
     
  7. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,542) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    According to the article they have more going for them than the current hit. They don’t sound like the type to let it become their only pony.

    Also, there is no overall craft beer bubble. Prices of beer are not going sky high in relation to actual value.
     
  8. Wasatch

    Wasatch Poo-Bah (5,697) Jun 8, 2005 Colorado
    Trader

    Might just have to trade for some.:slight_smile::sunglasses:

    Cheers!
     
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  9. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (780) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Outside of a couple other IPAs, it doesn't seem like they have much going for them, but I, obviously, could be wrong.

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/41783/

    You don't think that there is a maximum percentage of the overall beer market that craft beer can occupy?
     
  10. cmukid87

    cmukid87 Aspirant (223) Jan 30, 2017 Michigan
    Trader

    What they are doing is capitalizing on this "fad" and nobody can really blame them. They are a one trick pony right now in the NEIPA game. I do think (and hope) that they are taking their profits from this and reinvesting it all into becoming a diverse brewery.

    As an aside, I do think M43 is the best NEIPA in Michigan and it's not particularly close. The fact that almost every liquor store, craft beer store, grocery store in West Michigan has M43 more often than not is a fantastic sign. That's the benefit of an upstart capitalizing on their success with one single beer is dedicating so much of their brewing capacity to it and feeding the masses. Just last summer it was a 1 can/pp limit in a lot of places. Now my local place has 5+ cases of it at all times.
     
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  11. Wasatch

    Wasatch Poo-Bah (5,697) Jun 8, 2005 Colorado
    Trader

    It's not a fad, these brews have been around since 2010, at least.:slight_smile:

    Cheers!
     
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  12. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (780) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    I guess we'll just have to see how long the NEIPA can maintain this stratospheric level of popularity.
     
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  13. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,371) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    They had an Altbier as the flagship when starting out, but it didn’t sell.

    Fermenta was mentioned in the article. I saw a photo afterthey had an event at Old Nation. Many beers were raised by the brewers and the Fermenta organizers in a toast to the event. Not one hazy beer in the picture, which was noteworthy.

    Maximum percentage of Craft Beer? If you look at the two countries that have a vibrant Ale culture, Great Britain and Belgium, they are around 30%, everything else is light lagers.
     
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  14. Wasatch

    Wasatch Poo-Bah (5,697) Jun 8, 2005 Colorado
    Trader

    Been close to 8 years now, especially in MA.:slight_smile:

    Cheers!
     
  15. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (780) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Would love to see that number, but I think that most everyone sees 20% as the anticipated ceiling. Craft had a 12.3% share in 2016, according to the BA, but that excludes breweries that make craft beer, but don't fit their ownership definition, so the market share is undoubtedly higher than that.

    https://www.brewersassociation.org/statistics/national-beer-sales-production-data/
     
  16. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (780) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    And the style has gained in popularity every year with many breweries opening and making essentially that style only or at least counting on the ever increasing popularity of the style to pay their bills. That's just not an effective business model, IMO.
     
  17. Jaycase

    Jaycase Meyvn (1,165) Jan 13, 2007 Illinois
    Trader

    Anecdotally anyway, in the Great Lakes thread it seems they are at the point where they at producing more than their market is buying. Folks are saying older batches are remaining on store shelves nowadays. Interestingly enough, and I'm sure relatedly, they are expanding to Southern Illinois soon.
     
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  18. Wasatch

    Wasatch Poo-Bah (5,697) Jun 8, 2005 Colorado
    Trader

    True.

    Cheers!
     
  19. cmukid87

    cmukid87 Aspirant (223) Jan 30, 2017 Michigan
    Trader

    I guess you are right. But that could be a product of those individual stores pricing it too high and being stuck with extra stock. I understand Meijer can afford to discount it but it is on sale for $12.99 nearly all of the time and I always find it fresh.

    Good for them for expanding. Hopefully they can use the additional revenue to explore and perfect some other styles.
     
  20. invertalon

    invertalon Devotee (412) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio

    There is a new brewery opening up here in Ohio soon called "Crooked Pecker" and will be a NE producing brewery, that is only open 2-3 days a week for can releases. No taproom, just can pickups. 2-3 releases each day. Sound familiar? (Treehouse).

    Talk about going after a fad and making it textbook "hype 101". Oh, but don't worry, they love stouts too so we should expect one of them every once and a while :wink:
     
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  21. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (780) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Spiced and BBA, no doubt.
     
  22. invertalon

    invertalon Devotee (412) Jan 27, 2009 Ohio

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  23. Junior

    Junior Disciple (308) May 23, 2015 Michigan
    Trader

    Even if NEIPA is a fad (I do not believe that it is) and its popularity fades (it will at some point), I think Old Nation will be OK with M-43 and Boss Tweed. These are the cream of the crop in Michigan as far as NEIPAs that are canned and distributed. They hit a home run on M-43 with timing, quality, price and availablity. They had a great product early on that generated a lot of hype and they ramped up production without any major consistency issues. I know freshness is a big issue with many NEIPAs. M-43 and Boss Tweed hold up just fine for me for at least 8 weeks. I've never seen either on the shelf that is more than 20 days old, normally it is 4-14.
     
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  24. Kraz

    Kraz Initiate (83) Feb 12, 2018 Indiana
    Trader

    They did, Boss Tweed. They also have a collab with Founders that is going to drop soon, it's a triple dry hopped NEIPA. I think it is coming in at like 10.5% too.
     
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  25. TheeWarPig

    TheeWarPig Initiate (60) Sep 30, 2015 Michigan

    That would be interesting.

    M-43 and Boss Tweed are excellent. I do worry about them just sticking to one style. The Sander's stouts they did were not well received nor was The Fine Stranger. The German Hobo Malt Liquor experiment was interesting.

    Distribution has been the issue in the past, They're now state wide with M-43 and as December 2017 Boss Tweed.

    It would help them if they could hit on something other than a NEIPA, but the 3 different ones I've tried have been excellent.
     
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  26. TheeWarPig

    TheeWarPig Initiate (60) Sep 30, 2015 Michigan

    Rinse a can out after drinking a 3-4 week old. That's enough to make you ill.
     
  27. cmukid87

    cmukid87 Aspirant (223) Jan 30, 2017 Michigan
    Trader

    Not with Founders...Foundation Brewing. HUGE difference.
     
  28. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,542) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Well the article talks about them doing some German style beers, etc. But as you and others have pointed out a brewery does have to make beers they can sell. Also the fact that two IPAs are their most reviewed beers doesn't mean they don't sell the other stuff.

    Oh, I do think that there is an upper limit on how much flavorful beer can be sold, but that would be market saturation. Market saturation is not a bubble.
     
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  29. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (780) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    In economics, yes, you are correct, but I don't think anyone who talks about "the craft beer bubble" is talking about it as it applies to this definition. They are, rather, referring to the stability of growth of the segment as a whole.
     
  30. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,542) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Well if we are going to suggest to people that an adjunct is different than an additive and that they should use the words properly when talking about beer the same applies to economics and business situations.
     
  31. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (780) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    I was actually going to cite this example.

    What alternate name would you suggest for the dreaded "Craft Beer Bubble"?
     
  32. Pisthetaerus

    Pisthetaerus Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2014 Connecticut

    You're talking about IPAs that taste like juice. It's popular because it's not an acquired taste like other styles. Even before NE IPAs exploded most breweries were paying their bills with IPAs. The idea that an even more accessible version of the most popular style is somehow going to lose popularity is a bit ridiculous.
     
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  33. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,542) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Already used it. "Market Saturation" fits just fine and describes the potential problem.
     
  34. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (780) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Craft Beer Market Saturation? Even though that doesn't have the same ring to it, I'm down with correcting everyone that uses it if you are.
     
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  35. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,542) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Welcome aboard then. I've been bugging people about this for a few years now, ever since the first misuse appeared in print, etc and started being used around here.
     
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  36. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Champion (800) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts

    Everytime I see yet another brewery produce an excellent New England style IPA and have success, I always think of this quotation from "The Incredibles"...

    "When everyone's super, no one will be."
     
  37. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Crusader (780) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Premium Trader

    Love that quote.
     
  38. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Champion (800) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts

    I think you'll have better luck with this than there was with the term "session beer".
     
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  39. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,542) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Well the ongoing bit on here about "session beer" has to straddle two cultures with different histories. Winston Churchill once said something along the lines of "The UK and the US are two countries separated by a common language."

    Seems to me just a bit more extreme and difficult... :sunglasses:
     
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  40. Oktoberfiesta

    Oktoberfiesta Aspirant (235) Nov 16, 2013 New Mexico

    What hops are used? I know a few local breweries who make Some great juicy/neipa type seasonals but they have yet to hitch their wagon to one beer and dump it on the masses. I think hop availability is a problem. Or at least an excuse they use often.

    The price and availability is a bit shocking (in a good way). My local places always say it's such a hop burden to make the style. I don't know if they simply don't have enough of the hops. It's also why we see so many breweries small and TH size who produce a wide variety of ipas. It's not always by choice. Sometimes that is all they have available for hops. It may be slightly about saturation and keeping hype high but I don't see why more of these breweries don't brew their popular neipas more often.

    I want to say 90% of neipas are seasonal to randomly being made and released, and not year round.

    My fear for this local brewery is that people will move onto something else that is popular. I too love the style but drinking the same one every week? They need to jump on other seasonals asap.

    I applaud them for doing this style in the amounts they are doing. Sort of unheard of. I sometimes ask myself, do my local breweries not like making money. Some of their best work is 'seasonal'. They need to transition that into m-43 type beers IMHO.
     
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