Welcome to BeerAdvocate!

Looking to talk, rate or trade beer? Join today by creating your free account.

Dismiss Notice
Curious about recent updates to the site and app? Check the Announcements forum for updates.
Dismiss Notice
Love Belgian Beer?

Join us Sep 17 in Portland, Maine for Return of the Belgian Beer Fest, featuring hundreds of authentic Belgian beers and Belgian-inspired offerings.

Tickets + more: beeradvocate.com/belgian

Opinions on Coors Batch #19

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Spikester, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. hopfenunmaltz

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    Posts:
    9,042
    Likes Received:
    6,970
    Location:
    Michigan
    The parent organization, the B.A., is more opposed than the AHA. The AHA even has mead and cider under its umbrella, which are verboten as far as the B.A. is concerned.

    There are many things done by craft brewers that do not conform to the Reinheitsgebot.
     
  2. kingofhop

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Posts:
    3,021
    Likes Received:
    6,782
    Location:
    Oklahoma
     
  3. jesskidden

    Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Posts:
    7,775
    Likes Received:
    17,995
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Was just thinking about that the other day when I came upon a reference to BBC's 2005 "Samuel Adam's Beer Drinker's Bill of Rights" --- in particular:


    And thought about how many Samuel Adams beers violate that "right" of beer drinkers.

    [​IMG]
     
    Chaz likes this.
  4. jcb7472

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Posts:
    897
    Likes Received:
    376
    Location:
    Florida
    I saw it on tap at a bar the other night and asked the bartender about it. He told me the story about the 2 guys from Chicago that found an old prohibition era recipe and brewed it. I said "well, I guess it's brewed by AB or Miller or somebody like that, right? (I had not heard of it). He actually told me no, and that it's a small brewery out of Chicago and one of the craft distributors in South Florida is currently selling it. Then I looked it up and saw it was a Coors product. I tried one and didn't really like it. I guess it's better than most BMC lager beers, but that's not saying much.
     
  5. jesskidden

    Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Posts:
    7,775
    Likes Received:
    17,995
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Here's some OK stats for you. ;) Coors went from 26.5% of the market in 1964 (with Carling and Falstaff #2 and #3 respectively- I'd never have guessed that) to 59.6% in 1977. That's an even bigger share than they had it Colorado at the time (44.5%).

    Gee, Lone Star barely registers - 5.5% in 1966 was as high as they got. Didn't they run a brewery (ex-Progress, maybe) in Oklahoma City in that period?
     
  6. kingofhop

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Posts:
    3,021
    Likes Received:
    6,782
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Lone Star had a brewery in OKC, closed I don't know when. I think Huebert's might be brewing there now, don't know for sure, There's still an old faded Progress mural on a building downtown.
     
  7. kingofhop

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Posts:
    3,021
    Likes Received:
    6,782
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    When you said Carling, I was kinda taken aback. but then IIRC, Stag was brewed by Carling, and Stag was a huge beer here, even tho' Coors was so big. My beloved Falstaff too. Black Label was in with the in crowd, but yeah, Stag was much beloved, too.
     
  8. jesskidden

    Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Posts:
    7,775
    Likes Received:
    17,995
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Ah, yeah, good point - Didn't think of that brand myself- yeah, the market share percentages quoted (from a 1978 FTC publication) are for breweries not for brands.

    I guess I always think of Stag as "one more mid-West beer under the Heileman umbrella" - which of course it eventually became after Heileman bought Carling-National and their brands.
     
  9. fx20736

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Posts:
    944
    Likes Received:
    3,219
    Location:
    New York
    I buy 90% of my beers from Beers of the World, the local bottle shop. This week due to budgetary constraints I decided to just grab a couple of 6 packs from the grocery store to last me until payday

    So, in that frame of mind I spotted a display of Batch 19, a "Pre Prohibition Lager", noticed the price (under 8 bucks), said what the hell and threw it in the cart.

    it was only when I got home and opened a bottle that I noticed that this is a Coors product. Now, believe it or not I have never bought myself anything from Coors so I winced a little as the whole marketing campaign for Coors Light is the stupidest, most idiotic thing imaginable.

    That being said, the beer isn't bad. It tastes like a real Pilsener, with a little Spicy Hops. It is refreshing and decent tasting.

    anyone else had this yet?
     
    YogiBeer and Bitterbill like this.
  10. Bitterbill

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Posts:
    5,546
    Likes Received:
    14,742
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Yes and I liked it more than most. The spicy hops you and I noted seemed to get lost in most of the reviews I read.
     
  11. Todd

    Todd Founder
    Staff Member Fest Crew Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 1996
    Posts:
    6,981
    Likes Received:
    17,744
    Location:
    Colorado
  12. SFACRKnight

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Posts:
    5,679
    Likes Received:
    6,238
    Location:
    Colorado
    Is it an ac golden project though? That dark little corner of coors is putting out some pretty bang up brews.
     
  13. okcommuter

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2012
    Posts:
    63
    Likes Received:
    70
    Location:
    Michigan
    I hastily put one in a mixed 4 pack the other day and, like you, was disheartened to find out what it really was. I have not cracked it open yet, as I put the 4 pack together to get the only bottle of hopslam I saw. I should probably get around to drinking it soon. I'll have to update after.
     
  14. UCLABrewN84

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Posts:
    7,935
    Likes Received:
    7,933
    Location:
    California
    The website for the beer (http://www.batch19.com/) lists the brewer as:

    © 2012 COORS ARCHIVE BREWING, GOLDEN, CO
     
    Beerpharmer likes this.
  15. StoutLover4life

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Posts:
    48
    Likes Received:
    18
    More flavor but still to afraid to make a big beer...
     
  16. mintjellie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Posts:
    387
    Likes Received:
    158
    Location:
    Ontario (Canada)
    I've heard of Carling-O'Keefe, but what is Carling-National? Carling-O'Keefe, the old Canadian Breweries Ltd. created by the consolidation of various Canadian regionals by E.P. Taylor, eventually merged with Molson Breweries. Isn't Carling a MolsonCoors brand? Is there any relationship between Carling-National and Carling-O'Keefe?
     
  17. jesskidden

    Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Posts:
    7,775
    Likes Received:
    17,995
    Location:
    New Jersey
    In the US, the Canadian Carling company starting brewing after the Repeal of Prohibition by investing in a company originally called the Brewing Corporation of America in Cleveland. Eventually they changed the name here to Carling Brewing Co. and took full ownership. Their main US brands were Black Label and Red Cap Ale. They slowly expanded by buying other regional breweries, acquiring some other labels (mid-West's Stag and PNW's Heidelberg) along the way. They slowly rose to the Top Ten in the US, peaking at #4 by the late '50's, early 60's. But by the time the "Beer Wars" started really heating up in the '70's, they couldn't keep up with AB and Miller.

    Most industry analysts blamed it on not having a "premium priced" beer - Black Label was "popular-priced" - and they attempted to correct that with their brewed-under-license "Tuborg" (aka "Tuborg Gold") - but they eventually merged with their local Baltimore (by then their US headquarters) neighbor, National in 1975. National (National Bohemian, National Premium, A-1 and Colt 45 brands) also had several breweries around the US, but that only lasted for a couple of years when the combined Carling-National was gobbled up (after a rumored Pabst merger collapsed) by Heileman in '79 - The latter company was on their rapid climb to the Top Six in the US and eventual crash by the mid-1990's.

    At some point in there (I guess during Heileman's ownership) Carling Red Cap was dropped as a US product, and they started importing Canadian-brewed Red Cap. For a time, Red Cap had been the #2 US ale, far behind #1 Ballantine XXX Ale, probably only because it was the only other nationally-distributed ale by then. (Pabst had an on-again-off-again-sometimes regional Old Tankard Ale). Red Cap, by the 1970's was maybe the least hoppy US ale of those not labeled "cream ale" - less hoppy than even the popular imported Canadian ales. Heileman even relabeled it "Cream Ale" before they stopped brewing it, during the brief "cream ale scare" of the late '70's-early '80's.

    Pabst still owns and markets a few of the original US Carling labels - Black Label, Stag - as part of their purchase of the Heileman-Stroh brands. Black Label was, for a time, an "international" label and was brewed all over the world through Carling subsidiaries or licensed deals. As the international closures/mergers occurred over the years in the late 20th century in the brewing industry, that left Black Label being brewed by competed companies - Bass and then Coors in the UK (where it's among the top brands), Molson in Canada and Heileman>Stroh>Pabst in the US, as noted, SABMiller in South Africa.

    (I think that's mostly right ;))
     
  18. PABeerGeek74

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Posts:
    7
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I picked one up in a craft pack at Wegman's the other day (I'm a sucker for marketing at times) and jokingly told my wife it was Coors when she asked what it was... the joke was on my once I actually read the label closely. Overall it was not bad, but probably would have tasted better if I didn't read the label first. o_O
     
  19. jesskidden

    Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Posts:
    7,775
    Likes Received:
    17,995
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Pretty clearly noted on the label as well (a "Blue Moon Brewing Co. Denver, CO" type of "aka" brewery name labeling it is not):

    [​IMG]

    The TTB label approval for the beer lists every Miller-Coors facility, and in every bottle/can format imaginable (12, 16, 22's and even 40's) - not to say that it will be so packaged or brewed everywhere, but they could do it.
     
    Chaz likes this.
  20. SFACRKnight

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Posts:
    5,679
    Likes Received:
    6,238
    Location:
    Colorado
    I really assumed this was another colorado native type project. Learn something new every day.
     
  21. mintjellie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Posts:
    387
    Likes Received:
    158
    Location:
    Ontario (Canada)
    So was the Carling-National merger a sale of the Carling-O'Keefe American subsidiary to National? At what point did the Canadian parent spin-off their American subsidiary?

    This story sounds very similar in some ways to that of the Black Horse brand, except Black Horse as brewed in the US became a very different beer than the one peculiar to Newfoundland today. How similar or different were the versions of Black Label and Red Cap sold in the US to their Canadian counterparts?

    At some point, probably after the merger with Molson, Red Cap was discontinued in Canada. In the late-90's the trademark was bought by Ontario regional Brick Brewing - actually one of the first microbreweries in Canada, just not a very good one. I have no idea how similar Brick's incarnation of Red Cap is to the Carling-O'Keefe original. I might pick a few bottles up just to see how it compares to other modern day macro blonde ales like Molson Export, Labatt 50, or Alexander Keiths. That would make for a pretty brutal tasting lol.

     
  22. crossovert

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Posts:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    520
    Location:
    Illinois
    A less-than-stellar BMC product that craft drinkers should skip as there are plenty of micro lagers out there.
     
  23. jesskidden

    Subscriber

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Posts:
    7,775
    Likes Received:
    17,995
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Heileman bought Carling National from "C&N Holding Co." part of the UK's Rothman group (which was also Carling-O'Keefe's parent company) in 1979.

    Not quite. Black Horse Ale became an American beer brand when Dawes, the Canadian brewer, forgot to renew the US trademark, and Cold Spring Brewing Co. just renewed it instead. They later contracted with Fred Koch and Metropolis (Champale) to also brew the brand. Still later it was brewed by Genesee, as well, after they bought the Koch brands in the early '80's. At least that's the story told by the owner of Cold Spring. (I had a long forum discussion about Black Horse Ale before, and I think you were part of that, so I won't further repeat myself).

    No idea on that one, never had a Canadian Black Label and if I did have the Red Cap that Heileman imported after the purchase, I don't recall it being anything other than "typical Canadian ale". But, certainly in that era (as well as today) beers were "labels" and recipes/abv would vary from country to country and even some exported brands would differ from the beer a brewer marketed domestically. (Smithwick's being a classic example today). I'd imagine that the 3 Carling/Black Labels sold today in Canada, the UK and the US all differ in ABV.
     
  24. stealth

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Posts:
    1,433
    Likes Received:
    5,846
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Not impressed.
     
  25. mintjellie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2005
    Posts:
    387
    Likes Received:
    158
    Location:
    Ontario (Canada)
    You're a wealth of information and I thank you for being so willing to take the time to share it with pretty much any BA who asks a question like this.

    There should be an "Ask Jesskidden" thread pinned at the top of page 1 in Beer Talk, lmao.

     
  26. acevenom

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Posts:
    883
    Likes Received:
    2,222
    Location:
    Louisiana
    I definitely enjoy this beer.
     
  27. puboflyons

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Posts:
    1,104
    Likes Received:
    12,593
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    I had it on tap about a year ago. I thought it was one of the better Coors brews I have had but I wouldn't call it spectacular.
     
  28. Beergelden

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2013
    Posts:
    35
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Ohio
    I thought it was interesting and had a unique hop profile. I couldn't really identify what BJCP style it would fall into either, which is also unique for a big brewery. Seems like it could be a nice bridge for those used to the flavorless mass market beers, maybe opening some doors to some real beers out there. Looks like Black Crown from InBev is trying the same thing.
     
  29. SerialTicker

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Posts:
    2,739
    Likes Received:
    10,232
    Location:
    Michigan
    I adore it ... for its price point. It's not the best beer ever, but for the style? Holy hell. I got a 20oz for $2 at a local place. Would have again.
     
  30. ColonelCash

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Posts:
    249
    Likes Received:
    148
    Location:
    Tennessee
    You guys are taking the fun outta beer drinking with all this pissin' in the wind.
     
  31. acevenom

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Posts:
    883
    Likes Received:
    2,222
    Location:
    Louisiana
    There's a Classic American Pilsner category, so Batch 19 would fit in there.
     
    Beergelden likes this.
  32. dsal89

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Posts:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    2,698
    Location:
    Indiana
    Oly had a sample of it (It was part of a craft flight...lol) I actually enjoyed it to be honest. Hell i might even buy a sixer of it
     
  33. JackHorzempa

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Posts:
    18,818
    Likes Received:
    22,431
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The style I would use to describe Batch 19 is American Amber Adjunct Lager. The BJCP name for this beer is American Dark Lager.

    The marketing folks at Coors would like you to believe that Batch 19 is a Classic American Pilsner but it tastes nothing like a CAP to me.

    You might find the discussion on Batch 19 here of interest:http://beeradvocate.com/community/t...owl-xlvii-commercial.60251/page-3#post-845082

    Cheers!
     
    Beergelden likes this.
  34. Highbrow

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Posts:
    2,112
    Likes Received:
    43,682
    Location:
    California
    roughly 75 posts & 2 pages deep??? i thought threads that were explicitly void of beer content were not permitted & removed promptly?

    :D
     
  35. cjoc83

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2010
    Posts:
    670
    Likes Received:
    2,261
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I just don't really see the point in trying a "craft" beer made by BMC when there's a million other beers that I haven't had when I walk into the beer store, and beer that's actually made by companies I respect. The fact that BMC is trying to worm their way into the craft market is almost kind of offensive. Maybe that's beer-snobbish of me, but I'd rather put money towards breweries who actually care and put effort into their product, and aren't just trying to capitalize on what BMC sees as a "marketing opportunity".
     
    5thOhio likes this.
  36. Scalzo

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Posts:
    326
    Likes Received:
    1,255
    Location:
    Illinois
    Got a sixpack awhile ago. It underwhelmed me to say the least.

    Tasted like chewing on a straw hat that was soaked in urine
     
    kojevergas likes this.
  37. JackHorzempa

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Posts:
    18,818
    Likes Received:
    22,431
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    “Tasted like chewing on a straw hat that was soaked in urine.”

    I have read many descriptions of beer and that line right there is ‘poetic’.;)

    Cheers!

    P.S. I suppose it is incumbent upon me to state that I personally do not agree with that description. I thought that Batch 19 is an OK beer within the context of an American Amber Adjunct Lager.
     
  38. ledzeppelin4

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Posts:
    1,336
    Likes Received:
    1,236
    Location:
    Illinois
    Wish it was priced lower.(For that price I could pick up some many other better pale-colored lagers). Regardless though, If I'm in the mood for an AAL, I'll pick up some Schlitz.
     
    kojevergas likes this.
  39. RBassSFHOPit2ME

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Posts:
    2,350
    Likes Received:
    2,761
    Location:
    California
    D
    Where's the invite?
     
  40. abecall98

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Posts:
    1,031
    Likes Received:
    1,330
    Location:
    California
    I'll let you know dude. Sunday Chili if you are down.

    Speaking of Batch 19, had it last week at the Buffalo Wild Wings in Natomas, it was okay.
     
  • About Us

    Your go-to website for beer (since 1996), publishers of BeerAdvocate magazine (since 2006) and hosts of world-class beer events (since 2003). Respect Beer.
  • Return of the Belgian Beer Fest

    BeerAdvocate Brings its All-Belgian Fest to Portland, Maine on September 17, 2016. Tickets are on sale now.

    Learn More
  • Get the Mag

    Become a BeerAdvocate magazine print subscriber today.

    Subscribe