Partial Boil IPA Recipe

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by sparroa, Apr 19, 2012.

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  1. sparroa

    sparroa Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 Canada ()

    I would like to have a sessionable all-Columbus extract IPA with a huge degree of hop flavour and aroma.

    There is much debate lately about how much bitterness is achievable through the use of partial boils.

    Presuming that the old knowledge is correct, 40-50 IBU is the most you could possibly hope for when dealing with a concentrated wort topped up with water in the fermentor.

    (I have heard the argument that Palmer/BYO/Strong are no longer confident in that theory; I just don't know enough about it myself to make a judgment)

    Let's just say we are dealing with the following simple recipe:

    19L Batch/9L Boil

    1.361 kg Briess Golden Light DME (Late Addition)
    0.454 kg Briess Golden Light DME
    0.250 kg Table Sugar (Late Addition) *11% of total
    0.125 kg Crystal Malt 60L * 6% of total

    15 Min Columbus 28g
    10 Min Columbus 56g
    5 Min Columbus 56g
    0 Min Columbus 56g
    Dry Hop Columbus 84g for 7 days

    Safale US-05

    According to Hopville, that's 1.041 OG/1.011 FG - using a low estimate of 12% AA for the pellet hops, it predicts 101 IBU...

    Going by the conventional wisdom from years past, however, that beer would in all reality be less than 50 IBUs - considering its low gravity, however, that would still be quite a bitter beer as it only takes 40 IBU to balance its BU:GU ratio.

    So my question is this - putting aside questions of cost, does anyone think that it is unreasonable to use 10 ounces of late hops in this simplistic IPA recipe? Will the resulting beer be so unbalanced that even a big hophead will find it unpleasant? Any predictions on the bitterness/flavour/aroma/mouthfeel?

    I love hops, but I don't have access to commercial IPAs and I have never gotten around to making exceptionally hoppy beers in my own short homebrewing career - so my own frame of reference is very limited...

    My guess is that it will taste like hop juice, which is not all bad - I'm hoping though that it would not be too thin due to the sugar or taste off due to such a hefty hop schedule in a relatively small beer.

    Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, including criticism where it applies...
     
  2. ryane

    ryane Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    Ok I wouldnt necessarily call that an IPA, its more of a APA hop bomb which is a good thing. IBU ratios are a bit of a difficult way to think about beer balance, it really depends more on what the final extract is (ie FG)

    For example

    1040 OG 40IBU

    1 version has FG of 1020
    other version FG of 1010

    1020 is much more malty and balanced than 1010, 1010 is very dry and bitter yet the OG:IBU ratios is still 1:1, yet the beers are completely different tasting.

    I used to have a link to a site that went into a lot more detail on this issue but I seem to have lost it, maybe someone else will post it.


    On to the bitterness level, Id be curious if you could point me to their new ideas. Me I wouldnt believe it unless they suddenly realized that alpha acids are really more soluble than we all thought (100IBU theoretical max) otherwise your simply fighting chemistry, and in that fight you will always fail


    In your recipe it looks like your going to be hop bursting, (a technique I love) so your only boiling about 15min? I would be a little wary of doing that with extract and a concentrated boil. I think I would still boil for 60min and make sure to get a solid bittering charge in there to make sure you get 40IBU in your final beer. Other than that I think your recipe should be tasty
     
  3. sparroa

    sparroa Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 Canada ()

    Thanks Ryan, your FG example is an easy way to put it into perspective. I made the recipe with the intention of a drier beer with few unfermentables beyond the small dose of crystal malt. In practise, however, I don't really know what that will taste like... It mostly just sounds good to me, because I have little experience...

    I never included a bittering charge on the premise that I'd be close enough to the saturation point already, but you are right in saying that I need an insurance policy due to the inefficiencies of my boil and my setup in general.

    My quest has been to make a simple to brew extract/specialty grains beer with loads of that "dank" resiny hop character... The few APA/IPA batches I've made in the past have had a little too much residual sugar for my liking because I shot for 6.5% ABV and used probably 12% crystal... So my idea was to halve the crystal, add some sugar, drop the OG to a place where I can get the most bitterness from my partial boils, and then hop burst...

    I'm happy you think it should taste alright with the addition of some more bittering hops - but do you think it verges on too dry and thin should it finish up at 1.010? As is, I am mostly just concerned with the taste of the extract+crystal malt bill...

    (I know it will be kinda one dimensional due to the simplistic base, but I could always choose to do a partial mash on occasions where I have more time so that there's a little Victory/Marris Otter/Munich character)


    With regards to IBU controversy, Jack Horzempa provided these links in an earlier BA thread. I have read bits and pieces myself regarding the partial boil bitterness topic throughout countless forums via Google searches, so I can't quite recall where I first heard about the debate:

    http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/719
    http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=basic-brewing-radio-2010
    March 4, 2010 - BYO-BBR Experiment III
    We bring in a panel of experts and data from home brewers to test the effects of a partial boil and adding extract late to the brewpot.)
     
  4. sparroa

    sparroa Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 Canada ()

    How about this...

    1.056 OG / 1.015 FG / 5.5% Predicted ABV
    188 Predicted IBU - but for arguments sake, say it is 50 IBU

    It's a "BJCP IPA" under the new specs, but it's drifted out of session territory...
    Would it make a better beer overall, though?

    19L Batch/9L Boil

    2.268 kg Briess Golden Light DME (Late Addition)
    0.454 kg Briess Golden Light DME
    0.200 kg Crystal Malt 60L * 7% of total
    0.100 kg Table Sugar * 3% of total

    60 Min Columbus 28g
    15 Min Columbus 56g
    10 Min Columbus 56g
    5 Min Columbus 56g
    0 Min Columbus 56g
    Dry Hop Columbus 84g for 7 days

    Safale US-05
     
  5. ryane

    ryane Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    For my tastes 40ibu in that beer is probably a bit much, I would shoot more for 30ish, but thats personal preference.

    I think one thing your gonna fight with a diluted batch is that you can only cram so much hop oil into the beer, so you might not be getting everything outta those hops, if possible you might try using a couple pots to do a bigger boil (what I used to do a long time ago) this lets you get better hop utilization and absorb more of the oils from the late additions

    As far as the crystal goes, I dont in general use much crystal malts, I tend not to like the sweetness they add to a beer, however if I do use them in an APA/IPA I tend to prefer something much darker than you have say 100-120L, and I like the British crystal malts more than the american versions.

    Unless your really trying to understand columbus hops I would suggest tossing another variety in there for depth of flavor, IMO Amarillo or simcoe would be great, cascade would work well too
     
  6. ryane

    ryane Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    I like smaller beers, so the original 1040ish beer looked good to me, I would have just dropped the IBU's slightly, for sugar you might think of using jaggery. I just made a jaggery pale that turned out great, and it could add some additional depth of flavor.
     
  7. sparroa

    sparroa Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 Canada ()

    Thanks again for the tips, ryane.

    I probably seem really naive because of this recipe, but I know it isn't optimal for anyone!

    I'm not extremely fond of crystal malt, either - it's just that my steeping options are extremely limited without plunging directly into partial mash territory.

    I have also never had a single-hopped beer before, and I really like the herbal nature of Columbus, so I was looking to explore the variety on its own this time. I wouldn't mind punching up the citrus content and blending in some Cascade but for now I might just go ahead with the Columbus. Curiosity killed the cat, as they say... (Simcoe/Amarillo/all popular hops are very scarce at my sources, too)

    You are very right in saying that I could benefit from a split boil, but that's what I was trying to escape by making a sessionable beer with as much bitterness/hop character as I could muster... I've been researching the Texas Two Step techniques, and that's only suitable for me if I have a full day to kill - it would take exactly double the amount of brewing work for me, and I don't get much time off. (I only have one suitable electric burner, so I would have to split the boil in half and do two consecutive batches...)

    I may just say "screw it" and go with the original plan plus some additional bittering hops, as you suggested... That's probably the only way I'll know how to gauge the flavour and bitterness for sure... I have nothing to lose but a few ounces of hops!
     
  8. sparroa

    sparroa Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 Canada ()

    I don't know where I would find jaggery. I'm in Newfoundland, Canada so there are no ethnic markets or anything. I'm 99% sure that the only bulk store around doesn't carry it - you are lucky to find demerara sugar or molasses there.
    (Nice blog by the way, I've come across it before in my online travels - I didn't realize it was yours...)

    I was fiddling around with the Columbus quantities on Hopville, it looks like I'd have to slash the 10/15 minute hop quantities altogether in order to include a bittering charge AND to bring my IBUs down around 70, leaving me with 30 plus in the end.

    For now, I may just keep your advice at the back of my mind while I forge ahead with the revised hopping schedule on the 1.040 recipe. Just so I can see for myself if the hoppiness is over the top or just right... It's very possible that I will get poor extraction from the hops, and that the bitterness will be more moderate than the quantities I used would indicate...
     
  9. ryane

    ryane Initiate (0) Nov 21, 2007 Washington

    Dont worry if the calculators say that your IBU's are something like 100+ as thats is technically impossible, so if by adding say 1/2oz for the duration of the oil bumps you up higher its not really going to actually make the beer any more bitter.

    You might think of ordering some jaggery in the future, its a pretty tasty sugar to add to a beer, goes very well with MO.

    Thanks for the compliment about the blog, its always appreciated! Good luck!
     
  10. sparroa

    sparroa Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 Canada ()

    Oh, I always knew the IBU calculators were rather inaccurate, but it's only recently that I realized HOW inaccurate they are for my partial boil purposes! This is my first hop burst so I'm going to tack on an ounce of Columbus at 60 minutes and leave 10 ounces of late hops just for the sake of experimentation. If it is too bitter for such a flimsy beer, I'll have no one to blame but myself!

    I will definitely keep an eye out for jaggery when I get around to brewing some stronger beers. I think Randy Mosher plugged it in Tasting Beer, if I'm not mistaken. (Before that I have to get some practise with the Texas Two Step and also assemble some kind of wort aeration system) I'm going to look harder for some online sources to fill all of my sugar/spice/herb needs, but due to Customs hassles it will definitely have to be within Canada...

    It may be awhile before I try this recipe because I already have a couple beers on the go, but I'll give you a PM if it happens to work out or not...

    All the best and keep up the interesting brews!
     
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