Pilsners and Lagers considered Craft?!

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by thecraftculture, Feb 18, 2013.

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  1. thecraftculture

    thecraftculture Initiate (0) Nov 28, 2012 Florida
    Beer Trader

    After talking to some people about the line drawn for what is a craft beer and what isn't. Most people confirmed that Pilsners and Lagers are not to be considered "Craft Beer".

    I find this theory lacking rhyme and reasoning. Pilsners and Lagers to me are simply just another style or type of beer that, depending on the brewery, can or cannot be considered a "Craft Beer".

  2. jesskidden

    jesskidden Meyvn (1,303) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey

    I think you're talking to the wrong people.
  3. PatriotsRule

    PatriotsRule Aspirant (257) Sep 25, 2012 Massachusetts

    An illogical assumption that an entire style is less than craft. Lagering is a process that consumes boatloads of time, and at the risk of ticking off those outside of mass, jacks Abby has redefined craft lager, so I consume boatloads of jacks Abby brews! Try a kiwi rising, a hoponius union, perhaps a prima pils (victory) and then tell me those beers ain't craft. Cheers!
  4. jar72404

    jar72404 Initiate (137) May 31, 2009 Florida

    "Craft beer" isn't well-defined, but I've never met anyone who would exclude all lagers from the category.
    Duff27 likes this.
  5. mattbk

    mattbk Devotee (471) Dec 12, 2011 New York

    pilseners, helles, marzens, munich dunkels, schwarzbiers, rauchbiers, bocks, maibocks, doppelbocks, eisbocks, kellerbiers. all excluded? wrong.
  6. wspscott

    wspscott Savant (979) May 25, 2006 Kentucky

    Prima Pils, enough said!

    Your friends are morons
  7. LostTraveler

    LostTraveler Initiate (0) Oct 28, 2011 Maine

    Jack's Abbey
    /end thread
    JrGtr likes this.
  8. brewbetter

    brewbetter Initiate (0) Jun 2, 2012 Nauru

    Just because the best lagers don't hold a candle to the better ales doesn't mean they're not craft! :wink:
    Gotti311 likes this.
  9. PatriotsRule

    PatriotsRule Aspirant (257) Sep 25, 2012 Massachusetts

    Picked up some private rye biere de garde and its described as being a warm fermented lager. Tastes like pure craft!
  10. Hockey_Fan

    Hockey_Fan Devotee (483) Jan 13, 2013 Maryland

    Unfortunately most people drink BMC produced Lagers. Then you have Miller Lite calling themselves a "True Pilsner". Perhaps this is causing confusion with most people.
  11. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,244) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    I think the problem arises from the fact that the people you are talking to have not yet learned enough about beer and how it is produced.
  12. frazbri

    frazbri Crusader (733) Oct 29, 2003 Ohio

    I really doubt "most people" believe this. (and those people that do lack a whole lot of knowledge)
  13. BradtheGreat7

    BradtheGreat7 Defender (621) Jul 22, 2011 Ohio

    I think the Germans would beg to differ. They are the ones who perfected a lot of the lager styles to begin with and who in the hell would argue that Germans don't produce some of the best beer on earth? The term craft beer should be used to classify the best. The brewers who take time to perfect their ales and lagers. You are having conversations with the wrong folks. I Guess these lads have never had a Eliot Ness or a Dortmunder Gold. Both are incredibly flavorful lagers and the best in their respected styles. There are some good pilsners out there as well. You can't call a brewery like FFF the best craft brewery on earth and then say their munsterfest marzen, jinx proof Dortmunder isn't a craft beer. It's the brewers making the craft beer. Not to mention the group lager is far beyond just a few styles. What are doppelbocks not craft beer either? That's what these people are stating to you. Id tell them they need to experience more beers before they even begin talking to me what's craft and what's not
    highdesertdrinker likes this.
  14. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    Ok, I got to go full-snob on this one, I am sorry. Loving lagers like I do, I can't resist.

    1.) Anyone that starts a sentence with "Pilsners and lagers" doesn't know much about beer.
    2.) All sorts of lagers, including various pilsners, are brewed by the craft community.
    3.) The "line" on what is craft beer and what isn't has nothing to do with the style being brewed, never mind where the yeast ferments from (bottom fermenting vs. top fermenting).
    4.) Order these folks you speak of a round of Weinstephaner Korbinian, Victory Prima Pils, Sam Adams Noble Pils or Brooklyn Lager next time you're out and about.
    TMoney2591, dianimal and rlcoffey like this.
  15. dennis3951

    dennis3951 Crusader (789) Mar 6, 2008 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Do "most people" consider Clydesdales to be horses?
  16. ThirstyFace

    ThirstyFace Initiate (0) Jan 11, 2013 New York

    Sorry, but this thread ended long before Jack Abby decided to Americanize the fuck out of lagers.
    decadance, jkblodge and jampics2 like this.
  17. BradtheGreat7

    BradtheGreat7 Defender (621) Jul 22, 2011 Ohio

    Probably. But if you are choosing to drink BMC and miller light then you have no business having a conversation about craft beer. Most of the craft beer world is research, info, and learning. I myself do far more research and reading than I do drinking and I have a beer everyday. But usually I have a beer researched hours before buying. My point is before I got into craft beer I didn't sit around talking like I knew everything about brewing. In fact I knew there were bigger and better things than even the Samuel Adams I was drinking.
  18. jbertsch

    jbertsch Meyvn (1,094) Dec 14, 2008 Massachusetts

    Where the line is drawn for craft beer has nothing to do with styles. If people think so, that's just ignorance.

    Ultimately, I think the term "craft beer" means next to nothing (at least in this context) and will become a passe' term. So the Brewers Association should stop pulling their hair out trying to constantly redefine it.
    TapeDeck likes this.
  19. jbeezification

    jbeezification Initiate (0) Jun 6, 2012 Texas

    Make them pay of course.
    Providence and BeerKangaroo like this.
  20. TongoRad

    TongoRad Poo-Bah (2,061) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Supporter Beer Trader

    Yeah- it probably ended with jesskidden's post. That statement in the OP says more about those who said it than about any style of beer or definition of 'craft'. It's amazing how certain people only look at 50% of the story and claim to know the whole book.
    thecraftculture likes this.
  21. HipsterBrewfus

    HipsterBrewfus Initiate (0) Jun 3, 2012 Maryland

    Sounds like you're talking to idiots.
    Brunite likes this.
  22. klaybie

    klaybie Initiate (0) Nov 15, 2009 Illinois

    So pilsners and other types of lager cannot be brewed with small (or smaller) scale attention and quality? Absurd! Ever try a New Glarus Two Women? Or a Victory Prima Pils? Or Sierra Nevada Summerfest? These prove that any beer, be it ale or lager, can be ''craft''
    Providence likes this.
  23. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Meyvn (1,315) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan

    frazbri and steveh like this.
  24. MostlyNorwegian

    MostlyNorwegian Zealot (519) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois

    Let me guess, these people are relatively new to good beer and they're into big beer.
    decadance, Norica, jbertsch and 2 others like this.
  25. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,971) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Never mind that Pilsners are Lagers, your friends need to get more info than they're getting from Facebook & Twitter.
    BeerKangaroo and klaybie like this.
  26. Uniobrew31

    Uniobrew31 Zealot (554) Jan 16, 2012 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    Pilsner and Lager are just two styles of beer. You can't eliminate entire styles!
  27. 5thOhio

    5thOhio Zealot (501) May 13, 2007 South Carolina

    Providence likes this.
  28. steveh

    steveh Poo-Bah (1,971) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois

    Actually, Lager encompasses a lot of different styles that shouldn't be eliminated!
    Uniobrew31 and Providence like this.
  29. JrGtr

    JrGtr Devotee (400) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts

    I guess what I mostly came here to say has been beat to death already, so I'll pass on that.
    I will, however submit that a good pilsner is harder to make than a good IPA. It's sassy enough to bung a s-load of hops in your kettle and call it an Imperial DIPA, but to make a clean, crisp, well-balanced pils take a lot more delicate touch.
  30. DarkDragon999

    DarkDragon999 Aspirant (271) Feb 13, 2013 Rhode Island

    A good craft pilsner makes for an excellent session beer IMO.
  31. TheBeerDad

    TheBeerDad Initiate (0) Sep 6, 2012 Michigan
    Beer Trader

    Totally agree, I usually don't enjoy session beers, but a well crafted pilsner is perfect for grilling.
  32. Thirstygoat

    Thirstygoat Defender (616) Nov 22, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Your "people" have bad information. Get them a bottle of anything by Ayinger. If the light doesn't start to come on let them stay stupid.
  33. Providence

    Providence Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island

    This times 10 million.
  34. SadMachine

    SadMachine Meyvn (1,338) Mar 14, 2011 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Tell them to drink Victory Prima Pils, and Sixpoint The Crisp and see if they still have the audacity to say that Lagers/Pilsners are not craft!
    Providence likes this.
  35. DarkDragon999

    DarkDragon999 Aspirant (271) Feb 13, 2013 Rhode Island

    Sam Adams Noble Pils really is good and seems to stand out from a lot of their average beers. I had Lagunitas Pils and I didnt think it was as good. Brooklyn Pilsner and Redhook Pilsner were ok. I still need to try Oskar Blues Mamas Little Yella Pills. Sierra Nevada Summerfest was the hoppiest Pilsner Ive had and didnt taste like your standard pilsner.
    craigo19 likes this.
  36. MammothBrew

    MammothBrew Initiate (0) May 13, 2011 Illinois

    Your friends sound like uninformed, trendy craft assholes.
    thecraftculture likes this.
  37. westcoastbeerlvr

    westcoastbeerlvr Poo-Bah (1,785) Oct 19, 2010 California

    Your friends are idiots.
    thecraftculture and craigo19 like this.
  38. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    I think you are giving them too much credit. If they were into big beer, they wouldnt exclude lagers.
  39. MammothBrew

    MammothBrew Initiate (0) May 13, 2011 Illinois

    Also, inform them that Bourbon County isn't a craft beer. Their minds will be blown.
    mattbk likes this.
  40. Horbar

    Horbar Zealot (560) Feb 24, 2012 Rhode Island

    This is a joke, right????
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