Possible bad trader?: @TheIPAHunter

Discussion in 'Bad Traders' started by JayORear, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. dmbforever

    dmbforever Moderator (749) May 8, 2013 Wisconsin
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Thread will stay open until @JayORear has been made whole and has tagged me *communicating* (<<<< see what I did there) he has received his box and is happy.

    Cheers!
     
  2. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,473) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    Glad to hear you are on the mend, man, that is excellent news. I was pretty hard on you in this thread, and I apologize for it, but do believe that if I were in similar situation, and did what you did with that note, etc., I would have deserved the same. And before you think I don't understand extreme sickness, trust me, without going into details publicly, I do. Get better, I guess I mean, get Laaarge!
     
  3. pjeagles

    pjeagles Initiate (168) May 29, 2005 New Mexico
    Beer Trader

    Cavedave, why are you apologizing for being hard on him? None of the circumstances changed except him actually coming through on his end of the deal. Nobody should start showering this guy with accolades for a great apology, either.
     
  4. pjeagles

    pjeagles Initiate (168) May 29, 2005 New Mexico
    Beer Trader

    *Possibly coming through on his end of the deal.
     
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  5. Vidblain

    Vidblain Savant (954) Feb 17, 2017 Minnesota
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Agreed. I'm inclined to think that the only reason the BBT has responded or may possibly fulfill his end of the deal is because Dave and others were hard on him.
     
  6. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,473) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    I think I could have been equally as outraged without being as harsh as I was to such a lengthy degree is all I mean. I had already said it before Hunter came here to take responsibility, in response to @Snowcrash000 post, and since Hunter did come on I felt it was only fair to express it to him also.
     
  7. SawDog505

    SawDog505 Poo-Bah (3,105) Apr 9, 2010 New Hampshire
    Beer Trader

    I feel he really has a health issue and I personally am glad he is alive, because I was very concerned about him. I texted him back on May 29th when I hadn’t seen him on WBAYDN in around month to see if he is ok. I then reached out on 6/27 again and he got back to me yesterday and I was relieved. I totally get @JayORear point, but I feel if I know @TheIPAHunter he will fix this with something LAAARGGGEEE. Cheers and happy health to all.
     
  8. JayORear

    JayORear Savant (972) Feb 22, 2012 California
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Which is the point of these threads, right? This will be the last I say about it, but he's also not outright apologized either privately or on this thread. Admitted he handled things poorly, but no apology, which is disappointing. Some people just can't bring themselves to say sorry. And to be clear, not sorry about getting sick (obviously), but being douchey in those responses. I guess I'm old-school in my expectations about such things.
     
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  9. John_M

    John_M Moderator (6,071) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Just trying to bring a bit of levity back, but I think most of us are rather well aware of that these days... :sunglasses:

    I think actually for some people (and @TheIPAHunter sounds like he might be one of those people), just admitting you made a mistake and could have handled things better is tantamount to an apology in their eyes
     
  10. Sturgeon83

    Sturgeon83 Disciple (357) Mar 11, 2015 Kentucky
    Beer Trader

    This is a real enlightening thread. Just want to clarify how many years old your membership has to be before you start getting a pass for terrible trade behavior? If this account was a year old, some of you would be falling all over yourselves to burn it down.
     
  11. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Poo-Bah (1,530) Aug 12, 2007 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    @JayORear, I am TRULY SORRY for the way I handled this entire situation. I broke our agreement, and I treated you unfairly in the process. I realize that had I simply asked you for more time, you would have gladly given me the space to make things right. You are a gentleman, as well as a longtime supporter of the site -- you deserved better. I can only make things right going forward.

    As for my fellow BAs, your criticism is warranted. I'm not mad at anyone for stating the obvious, or for thinking I'm a piece of sh*t. I deserve all of it.

    It would be a tough pill to swallow if my account gets banned, but I understand that actions have consequences. My time on this site has been an extreme pleasure -- a joy that can't be articulated by mere words. In case I never make an appearance on here again, I'll leave you with this: LET'S GET LARRRGE!!!

    - Hunter
     
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  12. rozzom

    rozzom Crusader (714) Jan 22, 2011 New York
    Beer Trader

    Alright I think we're good now. Let's get confirmation when that box arrives and then close 'er down
     
  13. John_M

    John_M Moderator (6,071) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Assuming you make good on your original trade agreement, no one is going to ban your account. We all mistakes and do and say some things we later regret. IMHO, it's how you handle yourself when confronted with this reality that's important.

    At this point it sounds like you're going to make good on your original agreement, which is all these BT threads are aimed at. Will there be consequences for your actions? Of course there will. This is obviously going to have some impact on your trade reputation for a while, though I think if you direct concerned traders to this thread and show them how you handled yourself in the end (I'm assuming you're going to make good on your promise), that will mollify most prospective traders. As time goes by, and as you continue to rebuild your reputation, folks will forget about this tread. Assuming nothing like this happens again in the future, I suspect the net effect of this BT thread will be quite negligible
     
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  14. JayORear

    JayORear Savant (972) Feb 22, 2012 California
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Apology accepted.
     
  15. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Poo-Bah (1,530) Aug 12, 2007 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    I'm going to respond to this post, and hopefully it will add some clarity. The ONLY reason I responded to this thread is because a fellow BA texted me. There was a period where I was physically unable to do so. I think a real a$$shole runs for the hills and never returns, while the opposite does what needs to be done to make amends, while being genuine in the process.

    I don't need sympathy BAs, I just wanted to let it be known that I wasn't lurking in the shadows reading the forum the entire time. I was oblivious; I was focused on getting well.

    Cheers.
     
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  16. flat_lander

    flat_lander Zealot (571) May 11, 2016 Illinois
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    And this was the point of my earlier post, and why I jumped into this conversation. I'm glad there are BAs on here that knew you and reached out. I'm glad you're on the mend and that everything will hopefully end well on this one.
     
  17. JayWhitson

    JayWhitson Crusader (761) Feb 25, 2015 Montana
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Dang haven’t read these bad trader threads since the NEIPA threads have been booming, then there was the pot water thread from Lagunitas and all... :wink:@TheIPAHunter hooked me up with a great box and asked for nothing in return a few months back. Absolutelty upstanding behavior. I see here there was a lack of communication and some defensive lashing out. I’m married and can vouch both happen from time to time even with those we love. Hadnt seen my man hunter here for awhile and I hope gets well and he will still be receiving a box of quality IPA’s once I can restle up some worth sending. If he says he’s gonna make it ok that’s a promise I’d hold closer than and IOU from Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunn. Hope everything works out and just everyone remember beer trading is a pay to play lifestyle and I’ve had boxes confiscated to and from me. But at the end of the day it’s just beer and disposable income. I’m American and believe everyone deserves a second chance and this is a gentlemen at the top of my list. Cheers BA brethren.
     
  18. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (4,649) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    And what am I, chopped liver?!
     
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  19. Boldbrew

    Boldbrew Aspirant (220) Jun 26, 2017 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    Yes
     
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  20. JayWhitson

    JayWhitson Crusader (761) Feb 25, 2015 Montana
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Just touching on the current state of the country. Ohio is still in America for now too. :wink:
     
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  21. JayORear

    JayORear Savant (972) Feb 22, 2012 California
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Except those confiscated/damaged boxes aren't based on a trusted relationship between us and UPS/FedEx. Trades gone sideways are a different thing entirely; the hit is greater to the fabric of the community than anyone's pocketbooks. [Steps off soapbox.]
     
  22. TeemuWPG

    TeemuWPG Initiate (152) Sep 14, 2016 Manitoba (Canada)
    Beer Trader

    Rules are rules, except when it comes to somebody with an older account and a good reputation?

    Interesting.

    That being said, I actually find it relieving, because sometimes I find people to be a bit too harsh on some of these folks that get themselves into bad situations and while I agree that the mob mentality probably works in some cases, I think it may tend to scare other folks away from a resolution in others.

    I don’t really do much posting here or much trading (I wish, but being Canadian makes it a real challenge on here) but I’ve lurked enough to know Hunter is a quality poster and I’m thrilled to see he’s in good health and that there’s a resolution coming. I’ve just found it very interesting to read this roller coaster of a thread. Been eye opening in a lot of ways.
     
  23. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,123) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    I'm not sure I completely agree that it is black and white like you are suggesting... I don't think that any user that had been here for a while would have been given the same leniency but there were some mitigating factors.

    I think the fact that it was a person with established community membership not just been on site for a long time (that several other BAs knew in person and had not been in contact with), the fact that there was a health problem/hospitalization, and the fact that the user had not been on the site for quite a while contributed to it as well as the OP being willing to wait to see if they could get a resolution.
     
  24. JayWhitson

    JayWhitson Crusader (761) Feb 25, 2015 Montana
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    I agree but the common theme in reading bad trader threads is an aire of blood in the water and a bully pulpit in my mind. We know someone did the wrong thing and the degrees vary greatly from fictitious accounts to steal beer, traders getting in over their heads to lack of communication and poorly choiced responses. Adding numerous comments from all to keep pointing out how the wrong thing was done is a bit of overkill if you ask me. If the point of the thread is to warn others not to trade with a certain individual then you need a warning sign, not a thread. The memeber in question sent me a package wanting nothing in return. I truly believe whatever is going on in his life there was never a point where you were not going to receive a return package. He has a history of being generous and obviously cares about being a part of our community. As far as pointing out the difference between having a box confiscated and having a trader take advantage of another at the bottom line is a loss of beer and money, which I believe all of us who have traded for years have an excess of to partake in this hobby. [stays on soapbox, expects rocks thrown for his opinions]
     
  25. TeemuWPG

    TeemuWPG Initiate (152) Sep 14, 2016 Manitoba (Canada)
    Beer Trader

    For the record, I’m glad there was leniency. I just don’t think that ... for example, someone like me, would’ve gotten any. And I’m not sure that should always be the case.
     
  26. dbrauneis

    dbrauneis Site Editor (7,123) Dec 8, 2007 North Carolina
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    I don't necessarily disagree that someone relatively new the community does not always get the benefit of the doubt... but that is true here on BA and in other aspects of life. Again, someone relatively unknown in the community may not have had nearly as understanding a wronged party and would likely not have had people reaching out to let them know the thread had been started (or that they had had health issues).

    The length of time someone has been on BA probably had less contribution to this situation than the involvement in the community - there are BAs that joined many years ago but are not very involved and people that joined more recently and are very involved. I think that level of engagement + interaction are the key factors in the situation.
     
  27. JayWhitson

    JayWhitson Crusader (761) Feb 25, 2015 Montana
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    I believe in all the threads I’ve read when someone comes forward and explains and apologizes it doesn’t matter if it’s you second trade or 200th. Any system can and will be exploited be devious individuals but if you are honest and sincere the majority of us beer loving individuals would give you a second chance.
     
  28. John_M

    John_M Moderator (6,071) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    As someone who has participated in a number of BT thread, I don't agree.

    As I mentioned in an earlier post, it's been my experience that a common feature in all BT threads is that the community bends over backwards to give the BT the benefit of every doubt, as well as an inordinate amount of time to come on BA and explain himself. For one thing, there's usually two sides to every story, and so whenever possible, we want to hear from the BT before passing any kind of judgment. There have been a number of occasions when after hearing from the BT, our impression of the victim has changed dramatically (as it turns out we didn't hear the whole story).

    Also, despite how it might seem at times, the primary purpose of these threads isn't to beat up on the BT, but to try to make the victim whole. As was noted earlier in THIS thread, once the BT is permanently banned, then that means there's no longer any hope of helping out the victim. So that's absolutely going to be a last possible resort, and one that's never taken lightly. Yes, ultimately we want to protect the community from an unscrupulous BT, but we also want to try to be as fair as we possibly can to the BT as well. As a result, in many cases a BT thread has gone on for weeks before a final decision is made.

    It's not a perfect system, but I feel as if the community does the best they can in these threads to balance the equities involved, and to come up with an outcome that is fair to both the victim and the BT. Ideally, that means the victim ultimately gets the beer he was promised, hopefully the BT learns his lesson, the BT tag is removed and we all move on.
     
  29. Eddiehop

    Eddiehop Zealot (515) Jun 28, 2014 Texas
    Beer Trader

    Glad to see @TheIPAHunter back in the saddle. I love beer trading as much as anyone else here, but I do think we ALL take our own good health for granted. I have no idea why the Hunter wasn't on the site for a month+, or what health related issue he had, but it's obvious that if someone who checks in daily, dissappears for a month, something is going on. Does this justify going ghost? ...absolutely not, but @JayORear made the post in the BT thread and it ultimately got the attention of the BA community, and also the Hunter - and he''s owning up to it.

    Here's hoping to Jay getting his box this week, and Hunter being in better health!

    Cheers!
     
  30. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Poo-Bah (1,530) Aug 12, 2007 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Just dropped @JayORear box at the post office. Expected delivery on Wednesday. Cheers, everyone!
     
  31. Sabtos

    Sabtos Poo-Bah (4,649) Dec 15, 2015 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    PA-->Cali? That's speedy!
     
  32. JayORear

    JayORear Savant (972) Feb 22, 2012 California
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    USPS flat rate. It’s the best.
     
  33. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Poo-Bah (1,530) Aug 12, 2007 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Actually in MA at present, but as @JayORear mentioned, flat rate is LARRRGE.
     
  34. Beersnake1

    Beersnake1 Poo-Bah (1,535) Aug 17, 2013 Germany
    Beer Trader

    Glad to hear everything is likely going to work out with this situation. I'm glad to hear that @TheIPAHunter is back in action and that @JayORear will get his box (and hopefully some stellar extras :wink:).
     
  35. SammyJaxxxx

    SammyJaxxxx Poo-Bah (2,218) Feb 23, 2012 New Jersey
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    True Dat!!!
     
  36. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Poo-Bah (1,530) Aug 12, 2007 Pennsylvania
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    In case anyone is still following, my package was delivered today. Just need @JayORear to confirm.
    [​IMG]
    I was NEVER not going to send it. Shit happens. I know now I could have handled it with more grace, and dignity.
     
  37. JayORear

    JayORear Savant (972) Feb 22, 2012 California
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Hey, everyone (especially @dmbforever and @John_M )--just confirming that the box from @TheIPAHunter arrived safe and sound, full of great, fresh beer from Trillium, Equilibrium, Sand City, and others. All things considered, this seemed like the most civil, balanced, and productive thread of this kind that I've seen. Some good food for thought here, I think, about how hard we do/don't come down on someone, how special circumstances/site contribution plays into things, etc. Thanks for everyone, including Hunter, for bringing this to a solid resolution.
     
  38. John_M

    John_M Moderator (6,071) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    That's plenty good enough for me, but will leave it to @dmbforever to close this one down.

    Cheers!