Welcome to BeerAdvocate!

Looking to talk, rate or trade beer? Join today by creating your free account.

Dismiss Notice
Curious about recent updates to the site and app? Check the Announcements forum for updates.
Dismiss Notice
Love Belgian Beer?

Join us Sep 17 in Portland, Maine for Return of the Belgian Beer Fest, featuring hundreds of authentic Belgian beers and Belgian-inspired offerings.

Tickets + more: beeradvocate.com/belgian

Publicly Traded Craft Breweries

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Ohsaycanyoubeer, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. 5thOhio

    Joined:
    May 13, 2007
    Posts:
    2,196
    Likes Received:
    4,178
    Location:
    South Carolina
    The use of an ad hominem description of those who disagree with you hardly furthers your argument.

    I could just as well say it's naive to think there's some sort of nobility in privately held breweries or that those breweries are less concerned with getting rich and maximizing profits, or that publicly traded breweries have no ethics save the bottom line.

    To your suggestion that privately held breweries "sometimes sacrifice profit/value for fun/[passion/eccentricity" I could easily counter with the often repeated complaint on these forums about high prices of beers from private breweries. And to your other accusation that publicly traded breweries only care about the "bottom line" I can point to BBC that does many altruistic projects including its seed money program for entrepreneurs and its homebrewing competition to name just two.

    And, oh by the way, do you sacrifice profit in your job for the sake of the product you provide to your consumers?
     
  2. leedorham

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Posts:
    2,542
    Likes Received:
    4,335
    Location:
    Washington
    LOL

    I didn't say anything about nobility. A private ownership's agenda isn't necessarily noble.

    I didn't say anything about privately held companies not being able to do anything altruistic.


    You clearly don't know me very well if you think that sort of rhetoric strikes a nerve at all. I give zero fucks about the things that keep most business people up at night.
     
  3. BigCheese

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Posts:
    800
    Likes Received:
    669
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Dont you spend enough of your budget on craft beer already?

    If you want to invest by a 12 pack instead of a 6 pack. Better ROI.
     
  4. StylzMC

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Posts:
    154
    Likes Received:
    110
    Location:
    Yukon (Canada)
    "In my opinion, if a craft brewery does _(insert anything)__, they aren't 'craft' anymore"
     
    5thOhio likes this.
  5. Blanco

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Posts:
    708
    Likes Received:
    327
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    IRRC, Tenth & Blake owns less than 25% of Terrapin.
     
  6. ThePorterSorter

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Posts:
    267
    Likes Received:
    218
    Location:
    Oregon
  7. Walkercf

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Posts:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    OTC NCNE Appalachian Mountain Brewery ! HOTR Hooters Mgmt involved.
     
  8. pixieskid

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Posts:
    939
    Likes Received:
    590
    Location:
    Germany
    I kick myself every time I hear about how well they are doing...I had an business math class several years ago and chose to do the comparison/prediction of SAM and BEER and my predictions were right. Their stock has gone way up in the last 4 years. But then again, I could have put what little money I had into gold and that would have been a good choice as well...
     
  9. pixieskid

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Posts:
    939
    Likes Received:
    590
    Location:
    Germany
    You happen to have any similar info for European craft breweries? Better yet, would you let me know if there is a particularly quick way to go about finding out such information (or are you just an encyclopedia and/or master of Googling)?
     
  10. blue-dream

    blue-dream Moderator
    Staff Member Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2013
    Posts:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    16,696
    Location:
    Virgin Islands (U.S.)
  11. Harnkus

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Posts:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    1,518
    Location:
    New York
    Totally fair point
     
  12. spicoli00

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Posts:
    3,902
    Likes Received:
    34,577
    Location:
    Indiana
  13. blue-dream

    blue-dream Moderator
    Staff Member Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2013
    Posts:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    16,696
    Location:
    Virgin Islands (U.S.)
  14. drtth

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Posts:
    8,951
    Likes Received:
    14,778
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
  15. spicoli00

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2005
    Posts:
    3,902
    Likes Received:
    34,577
    Location:
    Indiana
    that's not what the prospectus says.

    can't buy from the u.s. but if you have an offshore account it's not an issue.
     
  16. imbrue001

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Posts:
    831
    Likes Received:
    1,077
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I tried to tell you guys about GrowLife Inc. and nobody wanted to hear it.
    *shrug*
    Back to beer stocks i guess. Actually SAM didnt do half bad this year. I wouldnt touch it now but..
     
    blue-dream likes this.
  17. drtth

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Posts:
    8,951
    Likes Received:
    14,778
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Thanks for that information. That's a sublety I'd not been aware of having just read the part saying as a resident of the US you were not eligible for purchase.
     
  18. C_Roetting

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Posts:
    84
    Likes Received:
    72
    Location:
    Kentucky
  19. otispdriftwood

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Posts:
    5,295
    Likes Received:
    5,310
    Location:
    Colorado
    You are correctly segregating business practices from brewing but even though a "business practice" may deal mainly with marketing, etc., it can also have an effect on brewing. For example, using cheaper or less ingredients that don't necessarily change the taste of the beer for the majority of drinkers in order to maximize profits.
     
  20. otispdriftwood

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Posts:
    5,295
    Likes Received:
    5,310
    Location:
    Colorado
    Publicly traded / craft brewery. An oxymoron if I ever saw one.
     
  21. draheim

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Posts:
    7,425
    Likes Received:
    26,345
    Location:
    Washington
    Bump.

    I was going to post this same thread but then, using the handy search function, found this one already in existence.

    To add to the conversation, have any new publicly traded breweries come on the market since December 2013 (date of the last post in this thread prior to mine)? Is this viewed as a growing trend as more breweries grow and expand distribution? Pros? Cons?
     
    kojevergas and blue-dream like this.
  22. Ranbot

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2006
    Posts:
    2,091
    Likes Received:
    3,521
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
  23. Lazhal

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Posts:
    786
    Likes Received:
    1,717
    Location:
    Michigan
    No, I'm not talking about buying beer.

    I'm talking about buying ownership in big name craft breweries. Average investors, like me, do this every day with publicly traded companies (stock) and mutual funds.

    Craft beer market share has been gaining on big beer for some time now. Take a company like Founder's. They have a significant foothold in craft beer. Targeting most of the popular styles. Their product line "All Day IPA" is specifically targeted at major products like Bud Light, Miller Lite, etc. Its clever! I think there is a lot of potential for a company like this.

    It's the type of investment where I'm interested in putting money. But I can't buy stock in Founder's! I'm also wary of buying stock in a big beer player like AB Inbev or SABMiller. They are losing market share and their portion of business in craft isn't large enough.

    What are the options to get my money into big time craft beer?
     
  24. TCJ0100

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Posts:
    227
    Likes Received:
    940
    Location:
    California
    Sam Adams is publicly traded. Other than that you can't most of them are family owned or owned by the employees.
     
    Chaz likes this.
  25. Jacobob10

    Subscriber

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Posts:
    679
    Likes Received:
    3,491
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I owned stock in Boston Beer Co. (SAM) for a few years and got a pretty nice return off of it. Not sure if it is too large for what you're looking for. The stock price is now much higher than when I bought it. They not only own Samuel Adams but also Angry Orchard Cider and Twisted Tea.
     
  26. Alpha309

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2014
    Posts:
    661
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    Location:
    California
    I would think your best bet would be to invest in a brewery that is just opening and needs cash. You could probably leverage yourself part ownership if you were willing to invest the startup costs.

    The midsized ones I am pretty sure are pretty tightly held.
     
    edd562, SteveB24 and Beervana like this.
  27. Tripel_Threat

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2014
    Posts:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    9,634
    Location:
    Michigan
    What they said. If you're savvy, best to keep an ear out for startups of for a brewer who's looking to expand and is in need of capital. Of course, this also depends on how much you're looking to invest, too. If it's a capital investment rather than just buying stock in a company, you're probably looking at a larger investment if the brewery is going to give you a percentage ownership.
     
  28. TheodorHerzl

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Posts:
    379
    Likes Received:
    969
    Location:
    Indiana
    You should do some more research. InBev is doing just fine. They released quarterly numbers today actually. There is still plenty of money to be made off of InBev. They are losing market share in the US but growing elsewhere. Shares are up 14% this year. If you have a 401k with mutual funds in I almost guarantee you own InBev already. All I'm getting at is be an informed investor. In the craft space you need to be an angel investor or buy in at start-up.
     
    Acropora likes this.
  29. Lazhal

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Posts:
    786
    Likes Received:
    1,717
    Location:
    Michigan
    Thanks for the start-up suggestions. I admit, I'm weary of a startup. It is a lot of risk to stomach. I'm really trying to focus in established places with a lot of growth potential. I'll take a closer look at Boston Beer Co too.

    The reason I don't want AB Inbev isn't because I think they are doing badly. It's because of where I think the greater potential lies. To me, its with a company like Founder's, not AB Inbev.
     
  30. terence

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Posts:
    43
    Likes Received:
    23
    Location:
    California
    There is also Craft Brew Alliance, Inc. (Ticker Symbol: BREW). They brew a number of beers, including Kona, Widmer Brothers, & Redhook. P/E is very high and very low market capitalization. I wouldn't call this a great investment.
     
  31. TheodorHerzl

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Posts:
    379
    Likes Received:
    969
    Location:
    Indiana
    You live Michigan? You can try LocalStake. There is a brewery on there about every week.
     
    TheeWalrusHunter likes this.
  32. TheeWalrusHunter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2013
    Posts:
    1,461
    Likes Received:
    2,594
    Location:
    Oregon
    Emerging markets my friend. Emerging markets.
     
  33. mikepcarney

    Subscriber

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Posts:
    361
    Likes Received:
    381
    Location:
    Ohio
    Kick starter ?
     
  34. hopfenunmaltz

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    Posts:
    9,037
    Likes Received:
    6,965
    Location:
    Michigan
    It seems everybody is opening a brewery in MI. Find one and review the business plan. If that looks good, plunk down a large chunk of change. Be prepared to wait a long time to see the first return.

    Founders almost went bankrupt, so be prepared to lose money, as not every brewery makes it big.
     
  35. kfordham281

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Posts:
    127
    Likes Received:
    156
    Location:
    Georgia
    I'm almost positive you can't sell ownership on Kickstarter.

    For the OP, try BUD, BREW, and SAM; all publicly traded companies.

    Why BUD? Let's be honest, they are going to continue to pour money into craft acquisitions. They pay a decent dividend too. I've actually been looking at buying some shares.

    Why SAM? They are up nearly 300% since 2011. Their P/E is high and they don't pay a dividend (BUD does) however. I personally would probably not put my money there, primarily because I'm not a huge fan of their product.

    Why BREW? Well....not sure I can say why. You can look at the numbers, but I suspect they have underperformed vs the S&P 500 over the last 5 years. Though it looks like revenue growth over the last five years is 10%+ so there is some growth...

    If you want to invest in non-public companies, you need a few things. 1) Decent amount of seed capital; $100K+ 2) Connections to companies looking to grow. 3) Patience

    Food for thought.
     
  36. fredmugs

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Posts:
    3,592
    Likes Received:
    18,233
    Location:
    Indiana
    If you're looking to invest a big sum perhaps you should look into starting a brewery. Here in Bloomington a guy started a craft bar and expanded it into a brewery. He hired the brewer from another state. If you have the funds and some business savvy you can find the right people.
     
  37. brother_rebus

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2014
    Posts:
    1,258
    Likes Received:
    977
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
  38. rozzom

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2011
    Posts:
    2,996
    Likes Received:
    7,721
    Location:
    New York
    Oh that's what "stock" means....

    If you don't want to invest in the previously mentioned stocks, and don't want to / can't invest (which is understandable) in a non-public brewery, then perhaps forgo the beer nerd angle in this particular part of your life and invest in something else.
     
  39. rabbitguy

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Posts:
    209
    Likes Received:
    104
    Location:
    Illinois
    You can try investing in a DRIP ( direct reinvestment program) . Two breweries that have plans are The Craft Brew Alliance, and Boston Beer.
     
  40. beernazi

    Beer Trader

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Posts:
    201
    Likes Received:
    270
    Location:
    California
    lol, its not about the stock price, its about the predicted earnings per share in comparison to the price of the stock, as well as the industry it is in, and the other companies that do business that can be compared to sam adams
     
  • About Us

    Your go-to website for beer (since 1996), publishers of BeerAdvocate magazine (since 2006) and hosts of world-class beer events (since 2003). Respect Beer.
  • Return of the Belgian Beer Fest

    BeerAdvocate Brings its All-Belgian Fest to Portland, Maine on September 17, 2016. Tickets are on sale now.

    Learn More
  • Get the Mag

    Become a BeerAdvocate magazine print subscriber today.

    Subscribe