Sam Adams Rebel Raw Double IPA

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by rphx88, Aug 12, 2015.

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  1. jesskidden

    jesskidden Pooh-Bah (2,969) Aug 10, 2005 New Jersey
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Stone (as well as a few other brewers) has a separate REPORT EXPIRED BEER webpage.
    KevSal likes this.
  2. EnronCFO

    EnronCFO Pooh-Bah (1,897) Mar 29, 2007 Massachusetts

    He was probably the guy in-line at Trillium at 8AM on Saturday, while his buddies were first in-line at Tree House.
    Sheppard likes this.
  3. StoneGreg

    StoneGreg Initiate (0) May 16, 2002 California

    LOL. If "taking a shot at" is another way of saying "out and out copying," then no, you are not.
    #123 StoneGreg, Oct 5, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2015
    Sheppard, BrettHead, BradenMK and 7 others like this.
  4. donspublic

    donspublic Grand Pooh-Bah (3,356) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    So is the general consensus that Koch should just keep making Boston Lager and not make anything else? I have read the articles where he generally states his distaste of the over hoppy IPA, that is fine and it is his opinion and he doesn't mind sharing it, but for him to hop on the hop bandwagon, is that a bad thing? Does not every other brewery out there do this? If he is successful in this "35 day program" then he is catering to a lot of people on this site that give him a lot of grief. I personally am not a big fan of most of their beer, but am thankful that they are in large distribution so when out I have a choice (Oktoberfest at a steak house this weekend). This statement says a lot:

    "A lot of wholesalers are a little bit puzzled," Koch said. "Why do you need to do this? It sort of upsets the apple cart, by underlining something that the consumer doesn't currently think about."

    So the beer world may have moved in the direction that he doesn't like, but at least he is still trying to make an effort. I see nothing wrong with their IPA lineup. As the company that introduced a lot of drinkers to craft, they have a better chance of getting a decent IPA in a non craft drinkers hand than most other breweries.

    Edit: I also wish they would bottle Pigs in a Blanket and distribute it
  5. Leebo

    Leebo Initiate (0) Feb 7, 2013 Massachusetts

    They are one of the biggest US owned breweries. Economy of scale anyone? They buy huge amounts of hops and have long term hop contracts.
    mikeburd1128, 2ellas and LuskusDelph like this.
  6. LuskusDelph

    LuskusDelph Initiate (0) May 1, 2008 New Jersey

    I do recall him saying something to that effect. I like hoppy beer as much as anyone, but he definitely scored a few points with me when he expressed that.
    I'm sorry to see that he caved, although those high alcohol hop bombs are certainly a lot easier to make than a more nuanced and well balanced brew (and they can usually command a higher price).
    But, I suppose one does what one must in order to stay in the game...and the game is going to get a lot crazier over the next few years (though it's pretty certain that we'll also see a Darwin-like thinning of the herd as well in that time).

    It's even more comical to me because very highly hopped beer most certainly doesn't need to be hazy (and a truly good and well made one isn't)

    Absolutely correct. The "craft" side of the beer business is certainly not the rainbows and unicorns kind or world it may have been 25-30 years ago.
    To take your comment even further, I'll add that I don't believe at all the industry spin that "craft" is competing with BMC..."craft" brewers are more in competition with each other in this new world of beer where brand loyalty is pretty much a thing of the past. And unfortunately, the majority of the new beers cropping up seemingly every week are not even worthy of a second purchase. There are so many new small brewers competing for the same limited shelf space that it makes me really glad I'm not in the beer retailing business. And my comments will no doubt also make a few people in this thread glad I'm not in the beer retailing business. :grimacing:
    Honestly, I don't know how the stores do it, having to stock so much stuff (and still get complaints that they don't have enough variety) and then much of the stuff that they do carry not selling before the "best by" date rolls around (and then listening to geeks complain about that).
    ESHBG likes this.
  7. charlzm

    charlzm Initiate (0) Sep 3, 2007 California

    I will make a point of trying this. For ticking purposes only, of course. :wink:
    Brolo75 likes this.
  8. 2ellas

    2ellas Initiate (0) Feb 20, 2014 New Hampshire

    you've proved that nicely by equating "world class beer" with waiting in line. Just because there's a bunch of people in a line, doesn't make what their waiting for the best of the best. I don't need to drink "world class ipa" everytime I enjoy a beer, I'm ok with a pretty good ipa sometimes too. Luckily things are set up the way they are, that way you can enjoy how you like and I can enjoy how I like!
  9. irishpride

    irishpride Initiate (0) Mar 20, 2009 New York

    I had it at the brewery and thought it was outstanding and I am not a sam adams guy. I can't wait till it comes out.
  10. Strat58cat

    Strat58cat Initiate (0) Aug 29, 2015 California

    I agree with that 100%. That's my assessment also.
  11. Stewmeister91

    Stewmeister91 Initiate (0) Apr 7, 2008 New Jersey

    I wonder if SA will demand all the Raw cans be refrigerated?
    BeerBeast likes this.
  12. ElChuques

    ElChuques Initiate (0) Oct 8, 2014 Arkansas

    You realize line-waiting hardcore beer nerds like us only make up probably 10% of the craft beer market.

    Catering to a niche only works if you want to remain a small business.
    2ellas likes this.
  13. stonermouse

    stonermouse Initiate (0) Aug 16, 2006 Massachusetts

    It looks like the Heady/Pliny comparison Koch made was solely regarding freshness, not flavor, appearance, hop profile, etc. The writer filled in those blanks by referencing a "Heady clone," which was misleading. Although, pounder cans?
    Thecalmdrinker, 2ellas and EnronCFO like this.
  14. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Grand Pooh-Bah (5,000) Aug 12, 2007 California
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    @StoneGreg I agree, although I do think it's teetering on both sides. I can't speak on your relationship with Jim Koch, nor would I ever try to speculate. From my vantage point, some of their business moves (of late) completely contradict some of the public stances they bemoaned previously.
  15. Strat58cat

    Strat58cat Initiate (0) Aug 29, 2015 California

    Jim Koch just does whatever the he!! he wants. The haters here don't get the guy at all. "Guys in suits." "Ivy League." Being smart and talented isn't a negative. As a consumer, I want the smartest guys making my beer, if they are committed to quality. Boston Beer Company's whole business model is uber quality. Hopping up to 30 IBU - exclusively with noble hops - and brewing up that Boston Lager malt isn't cheap. There's a lot of noise that Boston Beer Company is "corporate" but people who are not heavily involved in business need to be aware that competitors will maneuver however to undercut other competitors. Then they may do the same thing, or take an even more business-like approach. Koch is independent. He's no golden goose for Inbev. He went public in the 1990s, but set up a special class of shares that only he owns. He can do anything he wants, and basically does. The result is some pretty radical and unpleasant beer, and some pretty good beer. In my humble opinion, Boston Lager remains the best widely available craft lager on the market. It's true that I don't rate their IPA offerings that I have been able to sample as highly as, for example, Stone or Racer 5. However, the Boston Beer Company heavily hopped beers like Rebel or Hoppy Red appear to be just as expensively made, if not more expensively made, than the beers that I rate most highly. The limitation on Boston Beer Company seems to be not their commitment to quality, but how much brewing talent can they find to create great recipes for IPAs. People wonder why everything Koch touches isn't the greatest beer ever made, since he's the 6th generation in the beer business and Boston Lager was so far beyond the competition in 1985. Boston Lager was his great-grandfather's beer. His father pulled it out of archives as like the best beer they ever imagined. Koch discovered it, and made it happen on a large scale. His efforts since Boston Lager have been mixed, but he's always out there on the fringes doing things that are incredibly off the wall and putting them into national distribution. A lot of this stuff is really good, but you have to be very open minded to appreciate something very different from today's mainstream. Koch is this very conscientious guy and my belief is the massive warning labels on that copy are as much to warn off regular Samuel Adams shoppers in their Volvo station wagons as it is to attract hop heads. More selections for me? He!! yes.
  16. DrStiffington

    DrStiffington Grand Pooh-Bah (3,424) Oct 27, 2010 New Jersey

    That's an awfully condescending comment. Not every non "world-class" beer has to automatically fall to swill. I'd hardly call any Sam Adams beer "swill." Ease up on the snobbery a bit. I'm sure this new beer will at least be decent and might actually be really good.
  17. BB1313

    BB1313 Grand Pooh-Bah (4,216) Jul 16, 2009 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Trader

    I'll give my 2 cents.. a good beer is a good beer.. I didn't like Rebel IPA at all.. I thought Rebel Rouser was pretty solid, nothing mindblowing, but enjoyable, especially the aromas.. I didn't try the Session IPA.. I look forward to trying this new one..
  18. ScaryEd

    ScaryEd Grand Pooh-Bah (3,417) Feb 19, 2012 New Hampshire
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Ah. I remember my first Heady Topper too. Enjoy but make sure to finish it all before it's older than 3 days.
    2ellas likes this.
  19. HeislerGold

    HeislerGold Initiate (0) Oct 19, 2013 Michigan

    Is there any actual release info for this beer yet or are we all hotly debating just a can label still?
  20. donspublic

    donspublic Grand Pooh-Bah (3,356) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    The specs on this beer don't match the label, but it must have been an initial cut(s) at it Rebel Raw Double IPA
    Based on the reviews it seems promising. Reviews date back to May so this might have been something they have been playing with and serving in the tap room.
  21. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,076) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    My prediction is this beer has better ratings than one would expect for a Sam Adams beer.

    It's an aggressively hopped double IPA in a can, that is guaranteed to be at worst, 35 days old. It's also ignorant to think Sam Adams flat out has no idea how to brew beer. I believe it's also ignorant to think that every time they brew a beer, it's for YOU, the niche market Beeradvocate beer geek.

    But this time around, it appears Jim Koch has brewed this one for you, the beer geek. And I think it will be better than you expect.
  22. EnronCFO

    EnronCFO Pooh-Bah (1,897) Mar 29, 2007 Massachusetts

    What the hell does expensively made mean? Like they're using more expensive hops, malt and equipment to create a mediocre IPA in Rebel? If so, then their Brewers are the least skilled in the market.
    BrettHead and Pisthetaerus like this.
  23. GetMeAnIPA

    GetMeAnIPA Pooh-Bah (2,473) Mar 28, 2009 California

    I wish it had a lower ABV. That 8% seems to be right for me on DIPAs. That way I can have multiples if needed, plus they tend to be less sweet and heavy. Hopefully, they can keep the beer from being too sweet. If they can demand the beer be stored cold and pulled after 35 days that's is a huge!
  24. bluehende

    bluehende Initiate (0) Dec 10, 2010 Delaware

    Since I do have a soft spot for BBC I will give this a try if it hits our area.
    creepinjeeper and Strat58cat like this.
  25. RobH

    RobH Pundit (872) Sep 23, 2006 Maryland

    Article HERE about this beer and story via interview with Jim Koch. Comments posted to story as well.
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  26. nicholasofcusa

    nicholasofcusa Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2006 Florida

    Just get into my glass already! Hoping for a good price.

    Rebel is meh but Rebel Rouser is unexpectedly tasty.
    BriantheBeerGeek likes this.
  27. Strat58cat

    Strat58cat Initiate (0) Aug 29, 2015 California

    I've tried Hoppy Red. The malt is thick with quality ingredients that you can feel and taste. The hops are from the southern hemisphere, and used to the maximum extent. I doubt many beers cost more to brew. Also it is not good. Res ipsa loquitor.
  28. dustinjkline

    dustinjkline Zealot (520) Aug 30, 2007 Massachusetts

    10%? I would be surprised if it was even .1%
  29. jayrutgers

    jayrutgers Zealot (687) Oct 29, 2011 New Jersey

    I quite enjoyed the Hoppy Red.....
    HoptimusMax1mus and HeislerGold like this.
  30. wyatt

    wyatt Initiate (0) Nov 18, 2009 Louisiana

    agreed. in a majority of markets the supermarket or local bar is where most craft beer is sold.
  31. ElChuques

    ElChuques Initiate (0) Oct 8, 2014 Arkansas

    I was being conservative. 0.0001% of the overall beer market.
  32. HeislerGold

    HeislerGold Initiate (0) Oct 19, 2013 Michigan

    I did too. It was piney and delicious. A pleasant surprise for sure. It reminded me of New Belgium's retired Red Hoptober which was, to me, one of the best non-Lips of Faith beers they've produced.
  33. HeislerGold

    HeislerGold Initiate (0) Oct 19, 2013 Michigan

    They're test marketing it? Damn. I may never see this on shelves.
  34. Pisthetaerus

    Pisthetaerus Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2014 Connecticut

    They did the same thing with rebel rouser. It'll probably see wider distro sooner or later.

    +1. As a general rule I ignore most beers that I have to put an excessive amount of time/effort into getting.
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  35. HeislerGold

    HeislerGold Initiate (0) Oct 19, 2013 Michigan

    I hope so. I'm guessing I'll end up seeing the Sam Adams nitro cans on shelves before this.
  36. nc41

    nc41 Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina

    Do not judge before ye drink. It's not like SA doesn't have the brewing talent, facilities, Distro network, and financial resources to make a killer beer. All they need to do is to do it, you never know. If they tippy toe well it will just be an ok beer, if they're serious, well that could be another story.
    Thecalmdrinker and Pisthetaerus like this.
  37. Pisthetaerus

    Pisthetaerus Initiate (0) Dec 3, 2014 Connecticut

    That's been the problem all along imo. They could've prolly been brewing some amazing IPAs for ages now if they weren't being so cautious/slow about it. They've been dipping their toes in the water while everyone else has been swimming for over a decade.
  38. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Grand Pooh-Bah (3,076) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Two things here:

    1) Define "amazing IPA".

    What brewer of Sam Adam's size even has a shot at producing a top IPA. All the top hoppy beers are mostly sold fresh from the brewery themselves, and/or are small operations.

    Sierra Nevada's double IPA, Hoptimum has a rating of 4.11, which doesn't even come close to scratching the top 100 for double IPAs. And their Northern Hemisphere Harvest IPA is a 4.17, and is #100 on the American IPA list. Celebration is 4.15. Are you going to suggest Sierra Nevada is also being slow and cautious?

    The only brewery that is even remotely close (and still not close) to Sam Adams size that has a somewhat high rated IPA, is Stone with Enjoy By. Which is, shocker, a beer meant to be consumed within six weeks of bottling.

    2) And as I said before, I don't believe Sam Adams has been brewing IPAs for the Beeradvocate audience. They're brewing IPAs that will sell the most volume. Remember, this is a company that owns Angry Orchard, and makes a boat load of cash off of Twisted Tea. Here's the IRI list of top selling IPAs (a bit old, but it's the best I could find) from mid-2014....notice who's number three...and even Lagunitas' top selling hop forward beer is their regular IPA, not Sucks...

    meefmoff and TongoRad like this.
  39. MVP09

    MVP09 Initiate (0) Oct 19, 2012 Massachusetts

    Rider is a typical crappy session
    Rebel is decent
    Rouser is very good
    Raw I am going is even better

    Born in MA and Sam is part of my beer drinking career. I always give nee products from them a chance.
  40. MVP09

    MVP09 Initiate (0) Oct 19, 2012 Massachusetts

    4 pages of thread still no rumor or leak about release.
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