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Shaun Hill on Craft Beer and Mental Health

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by cambabeer, May 24, 2018.

  1. EvenMoreJesus

    EvenMoreJesus Champion (886) Jun 8, 2017 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    I'm not one to say "never", but this is a situation that is on the "less than likely" side of things.
     
    tzieser and JayORear like this.
  2. Celtics76

    Celtics76 Defender (676) Sep 5, 2011 Rhode Island

    I agree with some of his points, but kind of a miserable dude. Makes me not want to ever visit HF. I'd rather drive the same distance to visit Foam or The Alchemist again.
     
  3. Crackerbarrel

    Crackerbarrel Initiate (93) Feb 10, 2014 New York

    Why? HF is one of the more relaxing brewery experiences I have...
     
    herrburgess and rozzom like this.
  4. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Crusader (774) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Trader

    Everyone at HF is incredibly nice and welcoming. There's no reason to not go there, and you'd be doing yourself a disservice not going.

    I agree with almost everything he says, and I think it's odd that some here think that he wanted this level of hype and success or that he contributed to his own hype. It's always been blatantly obvious that Shaun is a pretty humble, introverted (albeit opinionated) sort of person that just wants to brew in peace and quiet out in the country and share them with people who appreciate beer as much as he does. He did not ask for RateBeer to give him any awards. He did not ask for people to talk his brewery up. He just brewed great beer and the customers and eventually websites and publications did the rest.

    I don't view his discussion of being overworked as whining, either. They blew up so quickly that they had to expand but could not afford the construction or the staff to do so. He clearly chose to put money toward the construction and instead pushed himself (and probably his other employees at the time) to work harder, longer hours.

    It's easy to say that he should be happy with his success and just shut up and take our money and keep churning out excellent beer, but some people just don't want fame and aren't cut out for it. I don't see why we should slight the guy for having a hard time dealing with a situation he probably never foresaw and never asked for.
     
  5. jonphisher

    jonphisher Initiate (182) Aug 9, 2015 New Jersey
    Trader

    Everything he says rings true which is why I love them. Rating beers is dumb. I hate how people dis beers, think the only good beers are the ones you stand on line for, hazy ones, etc.

    There’s a reason beers that the craft beer I drank years ago are still around and I’m stores. And places that rely on hype and Instagram will eventually pay the price financially. They are a fad, craft beer is so much more than hype and shiny sticker cans with insane descriptors. Sorry had to get that off my chest and finally a thread where it was appropriate.
     
  6. chrisjws

    chrisjws Champion (818) Dec 3, 2014 California
    Trader

    I think he's correct and raises a lot of real issues there's reluctance to discuss. I see the idea of being an alcoholic joked about a lot where I think some people doing that are trying to rationalize their own behavior to themselves. I've had to do some self-reflection as I can get a little out of control and I can go several days drinking pretty heavily when I'm on the road, at festivals, etc.

    Everything in moderation. Self-reflection. Honesty with oneself. All things that need to happen with anyone who does anything more than a casual beer now and again.
     
  7. JayORear

    JayORear Meyvn (1,048) Feb 22, 2012 New York
    Society Trader

    Nicely put.
     
  8. grassrootsVT

    grassrootsVT Initiate (0) May 10, 2005 Vermont
    Industry

    Hello Everyone,

    I haven't posted here in quite some time - but thought this was a good time to weigh in with a few statements.

    I was in Plzen, Czech Republic to speak as the Keynote at the annual conference for the IBD (Institute of Brewing and Distilling). The chair/organizer of the conference had asked that I meet with a UK journalist that wanted to do an interview. We met the day before the conference and spoke for over an hour in a small conference room at Pilsner Urquell. James asked about how I came to brewing - about my travels- about Hill Farmstead and my thoughts on New England IPA. This was perhaps 95% of the interview. Maybe even a higher percentage. He asked a question about a comment that I made in a Good Beer Hunting podcast concerning consumption and alcohol in the beer industry - and I answered with some of what is quoted. I was not really speaking about any of these items - I was simply answering the (guided) questions that the journalist had asked.

    When I started receiving text messages this morning about this interview - I was incredibly curious why people were sending me notes... until I saw the original headline: "Beer Industry 'failing to address' mental health and alcohol link." My heart sank. How was this the lead of the interview? This person had asked me my thoughts about dozens of topics - and somehow had crafted a lead that made it seem as if I had intentionally sought a soapbox from which to speak. This material was less than 5% of the entire conversation but had been purported to be much more than I could have ever imagined.

    I certainly take issue with the light in which this article portrays my thoughts - as if I am some sort of of new wave prohibitionist with a puritanical self-righteousness. I was drinking half liters of Pilsner during this very casual interview.

    I am made to appear that I took an interview in order to talk shit about all of my peers for being drunks and mentally ill. The quotes/lead are out of context and, frankly, quite frustrating. I was asked to conduct this interview as it coordinated with my keynote speech on innovation in the brewing industry. This was a casual interview that, sadly, ended up with some sort of sensational headline that was a modified version of our conversation. No soapbox. Just an honest look at my life with an interviewer who seemed, at the time, very genuinely interested in learning more about how Hill Farmstead came into existence. Little did I know...

    Thank you all for allowing me to share my thoughts here. Please go back to enjoying beer. I will never conduct another interview with the same innocent naivety again. My understanding is that both Garrett Oliver and Paul Jones (from Cloudwater) had similar experiences with this same journalist. Taking fragmented thoughts and portraying things out of context.

    Shaun Hill
    Hill Farmstead Brewery
     
  9. IceAce

    IceAce Savant (905) Jan 8, 2004 California

    THIS is exactly how ‘fake news’ is crafted.

    Sorry about your experience Shaun.

    It’s all about the clicks...
     
  10. hopsputin

    hopsputin Meyvn (1,431) Apr 1, 2012 New Jersey

    Thanks for sharing your side, context is always important. Cheers
     
    LuskusDelph and PapaGoose03 like this.
  11. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Meyvn (1,484) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona
    Society Trader

    Well I hope you can spread the word about this journalist and get him banned from industry events and interviewing industry people. He is not someone I would want interviewing anyone with his track record. Sounds like a scum bag to me.

    Thanks for clarifying this for us and getting the truth out, its appreciated.
    Cheers
     
    PapaGoose03 likes this.
  12. Chuckdiesel24

    Chuckdiesel24 Savant (979) Jul 6, 2016 Illinois
    Trader

    Unfortunately this is becoming the norm in journalism - taking pieces of conversation (often out of context) to overemphasize certain points to create headlines. That was my suspicion when I read the full thing and the headline was just part of the article.

    Sorry I fell for the clickbait, personally. Glad Shaun came on here to correct.
     
    LuskusDelph, Frudel and PapaGoose03 like this.
  13. AZBeerDude72

    AZBeerDude72 Meyvn (1,484) Jun 10, 2016 Arizona
    Society Trader

    Cool, so what brewery do you own?
     
    Devman171 and JayORear like this.
  14. chipawayboy

    chipawayboy Devotee (402) Oct 26, 2007 Massachusetts
    Trader

    Love this guy and everything he’s built in Greensboro Bend. The vibe in the tap room and amongst the folks that work there is, in a word - “mellow”. He cares about his employees and has thoughts beyond beer. I don’t totay agree w/his opinion on Instagram and its affect on craft culture - but I’m glad he has the courage to say what he feels - fanboys be damned. Cheers to one of the true pioneers of this awesome state of 2018 beer.
     
    JackHorzempa and SammyJaxxxx like this.
  15. bubseymour

    bubseymour Poo-Bah (2,364) Oct 30, 2010 Maryland
    Trader

    Thanks Shaun for touching base with us here on BA to give the straight story and not the media spun version of your interview. @IceAce really hit on the "fake news" reality of our world. Take anything you hear with a grain of salt and get lots of different sources.

    As far as some comments on the article, pub culture vs. taproom culture are pretty different cultures. Even in taprooms they can vary. From my experience, if I visit a taproom that is very crowded, like on a Saturday afternoon, chances are I'm drinking alone and no one to talk with...everyone in ther tight knit social groups that aren't welcoming for outsiders to converse. If I stop by on a Thursday at 4pm when they open and its on a few people and the employee pouring beers, strangers are always so much more open to group conversations. With that said I always enjoy stopping by when there are no crowds just for that reason. Feels weird to be alone and isolated in a large crowd.
     
  16. gr8ful

    gr8ful Initiate (82) Aug 17, 2014 Texas

    I just finished a book "Sapiens" ... short history of mankind. Excellent book, but preachy at times, but one of the themes in the book challenges if all the inventions and change are really "progress", at all.
    There is much more to the book than this but does have that in it.
     
    AlcahueteJ likes this.
  17. EnronCFO

    EnronCFO Zealot (511) Mar 29, 2007 Massachusetts

    Probably the best interview I’ve seen from Shaun. I applaud him speaking his mind on these sorts of issues.
     
    thebeers likes this.
  18. thebeers

    thebeers Poo-Bah (2,412) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    Not sure he agrees, but I do! :slight_smile:
     
  19. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Savant (905) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts

    On the other side of the coin, I think some people overemphasize what a "problem" is.

    If you're functional, responsible, and leading an otherwise healthy life, it's hard to pin alcoholism on a certain number of drinks. The line is certainly blurry in some situations.

    I think @MNAle's post I quoted below is a great description of what a "problem" is.

    As some have already mentioned, I belive the comment was about those in the industry repeatedly attending events, not simply a regular consumer attending a beer festival.

    Here in Boston the breweries really aren't much cheaper, if at all, than the bars.

    I like how they specifically call out swimming while drunk. Is that a huge issue?

    That's not how my life is.

    And I'm not sure what part of this article is true or taken out of context. But in general, you never know what someone is going through.

    We all deal with certain situations differently. Some people find public speaking to be the easiest thing in the world and can never understand why it's a common fear. For others, just the thought of standing up and announcing your name to a group of people can be crippling. And they'll avoid situations like these at all costs.

    Did they have to expand? I'm genuinely asking. I'd be interested to learn more about the pressures or necessity of expanding. Especially in today's volatile market.

    How was the Pilsner?

    Was it regular old Pilsner Urquell, the unpasteurized/unfiltered one, or other beers they have at different gravities? Or the different pours I've famously seen?

    I can sympthasize with this feeling.

    But oddly I sometimes enjoy it. I'm a very social person, so I occasionally enjoy being alone, relaxing by myself. It's kind of nice to do whatever you want and not have to worry about where 5 different people want to go.

    I also enjoy hanging out having a beer while out and reading on my phone. I honestly see no difference between that and when people would be alone reading a book or a newspaper.
     
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  20. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Crusader (774) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Trader

    This was four years ago that they began. When I was there last year, it looked like it was completed, but I can't find any articles that say so. Short answer: yeah, they expanded. The article that this thread is based on sort of talks about it (they had to borrow money), too.

    I am in agreement with your sentiments as well, especially about the gray area that is the slippery definition of alcoholism, though I think some would consider a person that drinks two or three drinks often/every night yet still does not let it impact their life as a "functioning alcoholic." I am not sure I agree, and I'm not sure where I land on the issue/definition of "alcoholism," but that is certainly a point I've heard bandied about.

    I am also in agreement that a lot of the industry practices encourage (or at the very least, don't help curb) alcoholism, and I believe this is relevant to craft beer and Big Beer alike; I won't touch imports because I have no firsthand experience with other countries' drinking cultures. The limited nature of certain offerings creates the horrible acronym FOMO (shudder), which means that people feel the need to try rare beers when given the opportunity, which leads to people drinking 30 pours at a beer fest full of these types of beers (GABF, FoBAB, Shelton, Extreme, etc.). This is just one example (and can even apply to something as low-profile as a tap-takeover or a brewery event at a liquor store).

    The encouragement of what would probably be termed "alcoholism" is compounded exponentially for anyone in the industry. I used to work as a representative for a distributor, and it was expected (indeed, all but required) that you try new products in each and every 8:00 AM meeting, Monday and Friday, every week; such tastings usually involved anywhere between three and twelve products, (a wide range, I grant you), and often many employees would have what I considered excessively large pours of the products, sometimes taking seconds or volunteering to finish the bottle, all before driving upwards of an hour to their respective territories. You have to drink other distributors' products as well because you need to be knowledgeable about competing products, too. It was expected that you go to events hosted by the company and/or colleagues (which took place nearly every night) and drink. It was expected that you host your own events and drink at them (in both cases, your event or someone else's, bar tabs were paid for by the company, which is obvious encouragement). I was told many times by superiors and co-workers that I should go to this or that event and get drunk with everyone else on the company coffer. This all might sound great, but when driving is a big part of doing the job, and public transit is very inefficient, it can get dangerous, quickly. Any event that I went to, I saw fellow employees and especially bosses drink to excess and drive away at the end of the night. Ultimately, I left the company because the pressure to drink from the company and the peer pressure of fellow reps, which was mostly inadvertent "Come have fun with us!"-pressure, was too great for me. I know for a fact that my distributor was not unique in these practices. I know that distributors aren't unique in the industry in these practices. This sort of thing is very much the norm, as I assume anyone who has had experience with the beer (and alcohol) industry will corroborate.

    Sorry for the long anecdote, but I think it's very relevant to the topic at hand. (Also, of course, I don't mean any animosity toward anyone, least of all you, @AlcahueteJ.)
     
    #60 THANAT0PSIS, May 25, 2018
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  21. Oktoberfiesta

    Oktoberfiesta Aspirant (256) Nov 16, 2013 New Mexico

    I look at the haul thread and wonder, when does one have time to drink all these beers? I was walking through a VT beer store in late March and counted what appeared to be 18-20 NE or VT style ipas. Maybe one was below 6%. The rest easily in ther 7.5-8.5% range. I wanted to try them all lol. I ended up trying about 12 over a 8 day span. Unless people are doing samplings with friends and family constantly and consuming mere ounces vs. an entire can, it just doesn't seem possible for the common fan.

    I follow people on my UT and sometimes see 7-8 entries. Presumably it appears to be from the same afternoon. I just don't know how people keep up. I look at beer store Facebook feeds with 20 new releases per week. I've begun to only drink on the weekends and don't even find time now to drink at my favorite local breweries. The # of highly functioning alcoholics intertwined in craft beer is terrifying. I hope many others see the light soon.

    I was in SD in November last year and pretty much made it to one brewery. After three beers at modern times, it felt like my limit was up. Yet we had 15 other places on our list. The number of breweries out there and the FOMO/ ticking community has created some ugly habits.
     
  22. MNAle

    MNAle Meyvn (1,108) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota

    Well, I quoted the Mayo Clinic web site. They are located in MN, and drinking and water sports is a cause of several accidents, even deaths, every year.
     
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  23. Sesmu

    Sesmu Aspirant (203) Feb 28, 2007 Massachusetts

    This article is not about a problem of alcoholism, this article is about Shaun Hill rambling about all things he doesn't like. And since his life and work revolve around beer then he and the author tie it all to beer.
     
    Chuckdiesel24 likes this.
  24. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Crusader (774) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Trader

    Did you even read Shaun's response to the article? He was obviously completely misrepresented.
     
  25. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Savant (905) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts

    I think sometimes the term “alcoholic” is thrown around a bit too much.

    Personally, I think I could have six beers a night over the course of an evening and have no ill effects on my life (aside from weight gain, and for the record, I don't have 6 beers a night).

    There's no distinct number that defines an alcoholic in my opinion. It needs context. Are you drinking and not tending to responsibilities? Are you having 6 beers in one hour, or 4 hours? Are you drinking and driving?

    Your comments on the industry are very interesting. Thanks for sharing. That being said, is this really unique to craft beer? I imagine it occurs in the wine and liquor industry as well.

    I would like to hear from some people who post in those threads on how they consume that many beers. The majority of them are IPAs...shelf isn't great on these either...

    Oh, I'm sure this is a problem...but to mention it alongside driving was sort of random in my opinion.
     
  26. utopiajane

    utopiajane Poo-Bah (2,532) Jun 11, 2013 New York

    I have not read the article either just the comments here as I so often do. I will say that since I have been tasting beer I have literally been accused of alcoholism in much the same way as inspector Javert exclaimed 'J'accuse!" Right now I just sat down to a beer. The logic behind the comments I receive are always a little perplexing like you cannot type well so you are obviously drunk. I do not think that craft beer culture promotes alcoholism. In fact i think the opposite. I personally have felt excellence in beer appreciation, beer reviewing, cooking and food and beer pairing as well as the free use of the social network platform to be a welcome creative outlet in a culture that to me seems stunted and somewhat redundant. I personally have met fewer alcoholics than I have met what I will call the remnant of the hippie generation who have taken to life with the same passion and the same causes. Cheers.
     
    cavedave and Squire like this.
  27. rozzom

    rozzom Crusader (781) Jan 22, 2011 New York
    Trader

    For sure (as not remotely an expert) I totally agree that people are different. Two people where all else is equal (same weight, age, gender etc) that both consume 4-6 beers a night - one may be an alcoholic and the other not. I don’t think there’s any dispute though, that from a physical health standpoint (barring one of them being some sort of genetic anomaly), they’re both going to suffer in the long run.

    As far as the hauls thread - yes I imagine there are people drinking too much beer posting in there. But also i’d say just as much (if not more so) there are people who have a different “issue” - namely that their focus is collecting rare / sought after beers, building up a cellar etc - more about beer acquisition than beer consumption. Which is why the new years resolution annual thread contains a “need to drink down my cellar” post for every “need to drink less post”

    For sure there is a problem with the craft beer scene and alcoholism. But barring some slight nuances, I can’t imagine it varies wildly from [insert any sort of alcohol based hobby] and alcoholism.

    The problem with any sort of discussion on here is because it’s obviously a contentious topic, and (as with any discussion on here - major or minor) it will be the polar extremes that tend to rise to the top. So at the one end of the scale you get the guy who “provides for my family, goes to work every day, pays the bills on time and drinks 10 beers every day ‘but I don’t have a problem’”, and then at the other end you get those snide/pious fuckers who respond to someone who says they probably average 2-3 beers a day with “you should probably get that checked out - I usually have one beer a week. Two tops”. So for me any sort of healthy discussion on the topic on BA - I just don’t see it happening.
     
  28. cambabeer

    cambabeer Meyvn (1,066) Dec 29, 2010 New York
    Society Trader

    While I shared the article because I found it interesting and did agree with a good deal of it, I feel somewhat responsible for generating more buzz around an article that misrepresented the interview Shaun gave. I'm grateful he responded here, and am happy for this community of discussion.
     
  29. Patrick999

    Patrick999 Meyvn (1,015) Oct 18, 2006 Florida

    I'm with you. I don't understand how some of these people try all these different beers. Not even just 7% NEIPAs, too, it's often 12% barrel-aged pastry stouts. I agree that a lot of this is due to the FOMO thing...I see it mostly with the younger people in the community, but some of the older guys aren't immune, either.

    I now only drink on the weekends, too. I was never an "alcoholic" by any formal definition, even when I was much younger and just getting into craft beer, but there did come a point when I noticed that even the 1-2 beers I'd drink on, say, a Wednesday night, were causing problems for me....even with that little alcohol, I'd sometimes wake up the next morning feeling utterly unrested. If I went to a tap takeover, beer dinner or something, as I did with some frequency back then, not only would I be unrested, I'd have a mild hangover and be irritable and borderline useless at work the next morning. Hitting the gym the next evening? Nope, that's tough to do when your sleep was terrible and you're a little hung over....so one night of being unhealthy turns into two. This may not be alcoholism, but it's a classic example of alcohol causing a problem. I recognized it and fixed it.
     
  30. jageraholic

    jageraholic Disciple (324) Sep 16, 2009 Massachusetts
    Trader

    I dont agree. If the beer made at hill farmstead was average, the hype wouldn't there. But because the beer is some of the best made in the states and is recognized as such, the hype is built. He build his brewery based on his experiences out in Belgium serving beer to the local community. People choose to travel to his remote brewery but that wasn't necessarily his intention.
     
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  31. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Savant (905) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts

    Your entire post was well said.

    Regarding the part I quoted...I have to ask, are they going to suffer in the long run?

    I have occasionally looked at studies regarding this, and as with nutrition in general, it's difficult to speak in absolutes over long periods of time. You simply can't control for all the variables in a large population over years or even decades.

    Obviously alcohol is a poison, but many studies look at people who are blatantly full blown alcoholics. Not your "Average Joe" who imbibes a bit more than what is recommended (2 - 3 drinks a day for a male, 1 - 2 for a woman).

    If you have 6 beers over a few hours each night, and your BAC level never goes above 0.08, is that truly harmful?
     
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  32. timobkg

    timobkg Aspirant (204) Aug 24, 2006 New Jersey

    To be fair, that person sounds more like an obsessive craft beer drinker than a full fledged alcoholic. There's clearly an addiction going on if they can't eat a meal without beer - and that's a clear indication of a drinking problem - but otherwise they sound more like they're struggling with their obsessive and compulsive behaviour than with alcoholism.

    All the alcoholics I've known - even the people who weren't full on alcoholics but still had clear drinking problems - don't wait for meals to drink, don't agonize about finding the perfect pairing when they do, and their closet usually sits close to empty.

    But as someone else said, drinking problems run along a continuum. At one end are alcoholics - who can't control their drinking, have their drinking negatively affecting their life, etc - and at the other end are people who might binge with 4+ drinks in a day every so often but usually only have 1-2 drinks and can go days/weeks/months without a drink without a problem. In the middle you have people like the above, who drink in moderation but compulsively - needing a night cap before going to bed, or a beer to go with every meal - or people who have periods of uncontrollable binge drinking.
     
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  33. timobkg

    timobkg Aspirant (204) Aug 24, 2006 New Jersey

    Alcohol is carcinogenic, so the only "safe" amount to consume is zero, as every drink above zero raises your chances of cancer.

    There was a study recently where they found that every drink above 5 pints a week takes some time off your final life expectancy, and that this number increases greatly for binge drinking those pints in one day versus spacing them out over the week. Here's a synopsis of it, which also includes a link to the study itself: http://theconversation.com/drinking...unt-as-smoking-a-cigarette-new-research-90346

    So, to answer your question, yes - 6 drinks over a few hours is harmful.
     
  34. rozzom

    rozzom Crusader (781) Jan 22, 2011 New York
    Trader

    Yeah that seems like a valid point - and without having any sort of expertise I definitely wouldn’t want to argue it. I’d just say that for me personally - based off the things I’ve read and my very limited understanding, personally I’m going to play it safer than that (much as I love the idea of 6 beers a day!)
     
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  35. Celtics76

    Celtics76 Defender (676) Sep 5, 2011 Rhode Island

    Sounds like you're describing Kurt Cobain
     
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  36. thebeers

    thebeers Poo-Bah (2,412) Sep 10, 2014 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    Just a public service announcement for people who talk to reporters: they typically want to write/produce stories that people are going to read. That often means running with the most controversial things you say over the course of a discussion, not the most characteristic/mundane things you discuss.

    Certainly people can be quoted out of context to imply a different meaning. That's bad form. The reporter here quotes Hill at length, though, and the only context suggested is that of a rambling conversation that covered a bunch of topics. Totally fair game, IMO.

    And, again IMO, this is a really interesting piece! Far more interesting than an insider story about where HF sources their hops or the output of their bottling line or whatever.
     
  37. laketang

    laketang Meyvn (1,039) Mar 22, 2015 Illinois
    Society

    Just an observation after reading the interview comments and the posts. While we all know alcohol can be dangerous to our health and lives, there seems to be a good number of BA's that used to drink quite excessively but don't anymore, pointing out the obvious to drinkers that are in a place in their lives that you were in some time ago. But really, everyone learns from their experiences along the way, that's how you gain wisdom. Most use their wisdom to realize they need to change things somewhat, some dont. So let people learn their limits because people don't usually do things just because they are told to.just my thoughts.
     
    Troutbeerbum likes this.
  38. Celtics76

    Celtics76 Defender (676) Sep 5, 2011 Rhode Island

    Too long a drive to a brewery run by someone seemingly disenchanted with the whole thing. I do love the beers and will enjoy them at bottle shares.
     
  39. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Savant (905) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts

    Nothing in that study is conclusive. It's thorough, and controls for many things, but it's far from conclusive.

    There's many many things in life that are carcinogenic that we consume on a daily basis. The study can't control for all of those. And certainly not over long periods of time. And these studies also rely on self-reported data, which in itself is variable.

    I quickly scanned the study a bit, and it doesn't appear it accounts for exercise and nutrition in the individuals who participated in these studies. It also doesn't control for the time period in which drinks were consumed. There's a huge difference between someone who has 3 drinks in one hour, and another who has a drink at lunch, later in the afternoon, and then at dinner. These are obviously nearly impossible to quantify over long periods of time in large groups, but can certainly have major impacts on how alcohol affects an individual.

    I believe this is the same study that was linked in a thread about a month ago. And these same issues were discussed regarding problems with such studies.

    I'm not going to tell anyone that I think alcohol consumption is healthy. But I'm also not going to definitively say a certain number of drinks per day for each individual is detrimental to their health.
     
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  40. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,752) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania


    Ever hear of Pascal’s Wager?

    It can be restated to fit this situation.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager