Should we re-enable replying to trade posts?

Discussion in 'Trade Talk' started by Todd, Jul 11, 2017.

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  1. HopSynonymous

    HopSynonymous Initiate (0) Dec 29, 2013 Massachusetts

    Apologies if this has been covered already, but...

    Would it be possible to bring it back, but allow users to flag abusive/unhelpful posts? Figure this could make it easier on moderator's end to simply delete a post if it gets flagged a bunch of times, without having to patrol posts.

    Then, good ones are there and helpful, bad ones take care of themselves...
     
  2. colby600

    colby600 Crusader (799) Mar 24, 2015 Connecticut
    Society Trader

    I'm not sure what your problem is, but I only trade $4$, so it's of no consequence to me. I'm just not interested in listening to stupid comments like yours.
     
    readyski and BravoDawg_WS like this.
  3. kgncfl

    kgncfl Aspirant (208) Dec 24, 2013 Washington
    Trader

    Totally agree. It isn't a need at all.

    This is a discussion around if comments should come back, has nothing to do with needs at all.

    This is purely a want discussion. Is it better with or without comments?

    To get to your point...what is your reason for not allowing comments?
     
    rspauldi likes this.
  4. gatornation

    gatornation Poo-Bah (12,177) Apr 18, 2007 Florida
    Society Trader

    In Favor of bringing it back. Replies good or bad are helpful to all parties, most times it will lead to closing the trade. If some one is abusive or reported several times , then take away that users privilege to post
     
    #204 gatornation, Jul 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
    Vidblain likes this.
  5. zacky_U

    zacky_U Initiate (0) May 22, 2013 Michigan

    simply put, yes.
     
  6. ECCS

    ECCS Initiate (0) Oct 28, 2015 Illinois

    I would say no

    I posted an ISO/FT a few months ago. I received 4 messages... 2 from ppl that said it was a BS offer and 2 from ppl that offered exactly what I posted.

    I think if replies are enabled, the first few months would be fine but then people would find a way to manipulate the system to boost their trade value. I think their would end up being 15-20 frequent posters persuading trade values (fair or otherwise). If the community as a whole were interested in educating new traders, we would be more dedicated to the completed trade forums. But we're not... so it would end up being a small % of the BA community providing a large % of trade value feedback. And from my anecdote above, trade value is completely subjective.

    I think if replies are enabled, people would also abuse the ability bump their thread to the top of the list.

    I do like the idea that a poster can choose to allow others to comment on their own ISO:FT post though... if that's possible.
     
    elvisdoc, FBarber, maximum12 and 3 others like this.
  7. Brewhead55

    Brewhead55 Initiate (180) Apr 21, 2014 Missouri
    Trader

    Can you activate it, but only make the posts visible to the OP? That would be ideal, can provide constructive criticism, but I've also seen trades go awry because someone convinces someone else not to do it for one reason or another- sometimes valid reasons, other times not valid at all. I think its beneficial for OP to get real time feedback, but it can confuse and alter trades from happening too.

    Plus the trolling thing got crazy before. Sifting through trade offers is hard enough, not to mention if we add 50 posts about how so and so's offer is stupid.

    EDIT: Or could you allow the OP the option to activate comments if they so choose?
     
    elvisdoc, Sabtos and colby600 like this.
  8. Frosty11161

    Frosty11161 Aspirant (233) May 2, 2016 California
    Trader

    Your initial thoughts on it only being available to OP doesn't really change the current system where the OP would get messages. Just a different inbox.
     
    Jaycase and JayORear like this.
  9. tikk

    tikk Initiate (0) Apr 15, 2007 Canada (YT)
    Deactivated

    I actually spent more time here when replying was around. The "threadshitting" was very entertaining to me. The reactions from OP when they got "butthurt" from seeing their 3 treehouse cans couldn't close for a big stout or sour. I think it actually draws more sets of eyes to a trade post seeing a few replies.

    That being said I like the transparency and it will really help sort out trade values. It will probably cut down on some of the sillier trade posts.
     
  10. Eddiehop

    Eddiehop Defender (649) Jun 28, 2014 Texas
    Trader

    Don't open it up!

    A trade of any kind takes two sides to agree. It's irrelevant if one person pulled one over on another or what's 'fair'. If you trade enough, you'll end up on both sides of the fence - but it doesn't really matter b/c both sides got what they wanted.
     
  11. BravoDawg_WS

    BravoDawg_WS Initiate (138) Jun 6, 2014 New York
    Trader

    Easy tiger. I'm the same way. Relax
     
    readyski and tikk like this.
  12. mattisloco

    mattisloco Disciple (302) Feb 13, 2007 Texas
    Trader

  13. Punisher1976

    Punisher1976 Initiate (67) Jan 4, 2015 Michigan
    Trader

    I like an upvote/downvote system. I guess I'd just like to see some self policing. Beer "advocacy" in the trading forums, in my mind, is more about getting and giving beer to people who normally cannot get said beers easily. BA'ers I've traded with have been cool with a $4$ trade and not totally consumed with perceived "trade value".
     
  14. josephwa

    josephwa Zealot (505) Jun 4, 2012 Minnesota
    Trader

    This is a utilitarian website, but it's also for entertainment. Some of those comments in the past were pure gold. I don't recommend harassment, but a little comedy never hurt anybody. The feedback was helpful too. Please bring the comments back!
     
  15. Prince_Casual

    Prince_Casual Disciple (356) Nov 3, 2012 District of Columbia
    Trader

    I have only done IP trades since commenting was removed (it wasn't THAT long ago, was it?). I wouldn't guarantee it would get me trading by mail again, but anytime I hear of something I might want to track down, and then see the pages upon pages of the same couple people posting the same 'never going to happen' trades, I forget about it. That's also the case on the IP forums, but at least there once you're in your region, at least Mid-Atlantic, there's only a few people who [FT: Veil + Aslin ISO: Prop VR Backyard Cherry Rye] damn near every single day.

    There's no way to make rules about "posting inane FT::ISO" but everyone on this site is over 21, I can't really imagine how much of a little snowflake you have to be, to cry to a moderator that people shat on your FT::ISO.

    I TOTALLY understand moderation on: posting trades outside trade forums, abusive content, inappropriate images, stalking/doxxing... but threadshitting on a person who knows they wasting space seems like a victimless crime to me. If they truly thought they could trade 2hearted for BAVDL, it would be nice as a community if it didn't get abusive immediately, but as others have said, there's no way for anyone to know if someone is Trolling hard or just clueless, easily confused unless there's a pattern of trolling and/or they have been on the forum for a long time.


    TLDR: bring it back!
     
  16. Meowschwitz_Ocelot

    Meowschwitz_Ocelot Initiate (0) Jul 24, 2016 Florida

  17. Beergasm1

    Beergasm1 Initiate (129) Jan 26, 2014 Massachusetts
    Trader

    You should bring it back. But have a way you can allow the person that started the conversation to block anyone just for the trade conversation.

    Give them admin rights just for the trade conversation. Which will take the nonsense from the situation.
     
  18. HopBomb515

    HopBomb515 Initiate (0) Jun 15, 2013 New Jersey

  19. cfh64

    cfh64 Zealot (556) Aug 16, 2005 Texas
    Trader

    Whoa boy! Talk about opening a can of worms. Here are my generic thoughts that have already been stated several times.

    The Pro side seems to focus on a few main themes. The primary reason is "it's helpful" followed by "it's entertaining". It's definitely entertaining and that's only when people thread shit and/or troll. I'm about 99.9% sure the people who think it's entertaining aren't saying that because they like reading true constructive criticism.

    I may have once bought the "it's helpful" theory but not that was a long time ago. How is it helpful? So others can see what you traded? That's what the completed trades forum is for. As has been stated, if people truly want comments because they're helpful then contribute to and read the completed trades forum more. That's a public forum where everyone can see what got done specifically not just "you need to add".

    If some are so concerned with helping others then they can PM them with their thoughts but most people don't do that, although they will comment/be helpful in the replies section where everyone can see them. Why is that? Perhaps because they have other motives then just being "helpful" (ie protecting trade value) and they have an audience. Take the audience away and they're not in the mood to be "helpful" anymore. If that many were actually trying to be "helpful" then those who claim the open replies were helpful wouldn't be requesting them. It's not that hard to click on an icon and send a private message.

    People complaining about the same post every day. First of all, that poster should be smart enough that something needs to change when they don't get responses. Crickets tell them all they need to know and I'm sure they know that but continue posting. How are replies going to change that? By publicly calling them out and harassing them under the guise of "being helpful"? Perhaps but that's not being helpful, that's thread shitting.

    We all know the secondary market is in full swing, more then ever. I'm willing to bet my house that almost every "helpful" reply will be based on $4$ in the secondary. Most people trading beers know where to find those values if that's how they trade. If that's not how they trade then other people's comments shouldn't matter which brings me to my next point.

    A good trade is when two people are both happy with the trade. I've lost some and won some according to others but I've won all of them in my mind because I was happy. How are the comments going to help? They don't. It's people trying to tell other people they're giving too much or too little based on their opinion. Why do so many other people care what others trade their own beers for? Afraid of "devaluing" the same beer they own and stood in 8 hour lines to get? Again, PM if you want to be helpful or crickets and the completed trades forum will help. If you want to trade based on secondary values, most know where to look.

    Those of you that try to use the excuse, "we don't want people to be taken advantage of". Just stop. What does that even mean? That they have a highly coveted beer that they can get more for than what they're asking? Replies enhance a shitty trend in trading culture that used to not exist. Trying to maximize every trade instead of being happy with the trade you posted is essentially what most replies are.

    Overall, I don't see any benefit other than entertainment and there's no doubt they are entertaining. I definitely wouldn't allow a free for all. I don't have the perfect solution but going back to the enabling comments or not would definitely be a start. I also wouldn't allow the poster to delete comments because they can obviously skew their trade to look more beneficial.

    If you decide to do this, shortly after I have a feeling you'll regret it and realize why you stopped it but to each his own. Unless you come up with a better system or just let it be a free for all and not care then this will most likely end up being a monumental task. Good luck whatever you decide to do.

    Cheers everyone!

    Edit: sorry for the in-cohesiveness, typing all that on a phone sucks.
     
    #219 cfh64, Jul 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  20. abb610

    abb610 Initiate (0) Oct 14, 2010 North Carolina

    No. It brings out the bad in too many people. The completed trades forum should be the only resource needed to determine trade value. Maybe adding a trade value forum? Either way, i like how clean and free of bad vibes the new format has been.
     
    Scour likes this.
  21. dolomite128

    dolomite128 Initiate (155) Sep 17, 2014 Massachusetts
    Trader

    Absolutely - yes.
     
  22. MarkJC1018

    MarkJC1018 Aspirant (271) Dec 27, 2009 Massachusetts

  23. Yabu

    Yabu Disciple (307) Feb 4, 2015 California
    Trader

    One problem with the completed trade forum, is people can (and do) post bogus trades to jack up trade value. Reddit has the feature that both members have to validate the trade. Then everyone can see the details of the trade.
     
    FBarber and abb610 like this.
  24. nedvalton

    nedvalton Initiate (0) Dec 29, 2012 Alabama

    Bring it back
     
  25. Brewhead55

    Brewhead55 Initiate (180) Apr 21, 2014 Missouri
    Trader

    Fair enough, then I guess it's a No from me :-) I like my other idea, leave it up to the OP to decide. That way if they want feedback they can get it... if not, they can turn commenting off.
     
  26. ELS

    ELS Devotee (460) Apr 22, 2012 Florida
    Trader

    Absolutely bring it back. It makes beer trading a lot more fun and educational if you're making a bad trade.
     
  27. Brian29

    Brian29 Devotee (495) Nov 15, 2013 Ohio
    Trader

    Vote Nay,

    The troll society is too strong. Everyone has an opinion on completely arbitrary values. Arbitrary.
    Traders set values on beers that no one has ever had. Ive been told countless times by traders that their beer x was better than beer y and hadnt had either. I prefer not to read trolling posts about how someone is "way off" and a myriad of reasons. Would rather people just be happy and remember this is beer.
     
    Scour, warrendietrich2001 and ECCS like this.
  28. lefty17

    lefty17 Initiate (161) Mar 26, 2015 Illinois
    Trader

    No, I like taking advantage of uninformed traders.
     
    maximum12 and SammyJaxxxx like this.
  29. Hopsiam14

    Hopsiam14 Devotee (422) Jan 23, 2013 Minnesota

  30. BeerThirty

    BeerThirty Initiate (126) Mar 7, 2012 California
    Trader

    I am in favor of bringing back the ability to reply to ISO:FT posts. I have fallen out of touch with values, plus have no idea what the new acronyms stand for, and would really appreciate the ability to catch up to current times via peoples replies (even with the trolls lurking, it never took long to recognize who was truly being helpful and who was trolling and deserved to be ignored). Hell, that's how I learned the first time around. No clue how new traders learn today. I'm getting old:slight_frown:

    Plus, reading the replies use to be half the fun. It made the ISO/FT threads more entertaining and definitely made things way more spicy.

    How about reinstating replies for a set period of time and taking another poll? The traders that it would help the most (new to the block) have more than likely never been on the forums when replies were enabled. Maybe give them a little taste and see if they think it is sweet or sour.
     
    #230 BeerThirty, Jul 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  31. aasher

    aasher Poo-Bah (3,608) Jan 27, 2010 Indiana
    Society

    Honestly Todd, as a member here for a long time I think that less people use that part of the forums because with the lack of replies, it seems robotic. It puts BA at a disadvantage compared to sites like Facebook or Reddit. I'm all for replies. Just my two cents.
     
    zach60614, Chris_H_2 and BeerThirty like this.
  32. Jaycase

    Jaycase Poo-Bah (1,874) Jan 13, 2007 Illinois
    Society Trader

    That's entertainment!

    This in a nutshell covers why the vast majority of those in favor are saying yes. These other comments like "helping the newbies out", as others have brought up, does the PM function not work for you? I've PM'ed a few people when I have seen requests for really old IPAs in the Chicago area. It's really not difficult to do. Opening up replies is all about entertainment value imo. Not that there is anything inherently wrong with this but this is what it is.

    @cfh64 made a great post just above and I agree with most everything he wrote. I was reading through the thread while thinking about the topic so might be a bit repetitive here. Imo, many of the peanut gallery commentators/Beer Street Journal columnist types do have ulterior motives in protecting their regional 'beer value'. And if I never see another 'Great trader here" or "Someone hook this guy up!" comment in the trading forum it will be much too soon.

    Regarding letting the poster switch on/off replies, this would not be a good idea imo. It's either all on or all off. Selective comments will just result in people switching it off when seeking what many might see as lopsided deals. So feedback when it would be most needed, in some minds, would not be available per the OP's choice of switching it off.

    I appreciate BA opening up this discussion and soliciting feedback. I do agree in some instances feedback could be beneficial but I think the negative aspects far outweigh the positive. And a simple PM can be used to be constructive to the poster. My vote is no.
     
  33. ScottO

    ScottO Aspirant (299) Mar 4, 2012 California
    Trader

    I vote yes.
     
  34. Aguirre

    Aguirre Initiate (125) Jan 24, 2009 Missouri
    Trader

    nah, I don't miss it. So much threadshitting.
     
    Dexterski likes this.
  35. DVMin98

    DVMin98 Poo-Bah (4,313) Nov 1, 2010 North Carolina
    Moderator Society Trader

    Nope. Too many people respond with less than stellar words. You should have at least a minimum amount of characters if you do, but still, its just a place for people to troll others.
     
  36. Darkaeon03

    Darkaeon03 Initiate (0) Sep 25, 2014 Texas

    Absolutely!

    I fee that it creates a more balanced market to allow feedback and helps new traders because it's easier to gauge whether an offer is good or not based on feedback to the post, and encourages more traders to provide feedback if they don't have to go through PMs for everything.
     
  37. PDXAmbassador

    PDXAmbassador Devotee (435) Sep 16, 2015 Florida
    Trader

    No! Please don't bring it back.

    (1) comments are enjoyed by those who comment, but usually just annoying to the original poster. Comments on Reddit tend to be "no way that'll get done!" Or "you'll need to add" -- which help no one. TB ("Talk Beer" forum) replies are often either mocking the OP, or spinning off into unrelated topics. BA is the only place that is clean and simple and safe.

    (2) seeing new ISO:FT posts at the top (instead of whichever post got the most replies) is helpful for traders.

    (3) BA Is unique in disallowing comments -- and that is a selling point! Stay unique and stick to your guns. Comments do not improve the specific service.

    One helpful thing for BA Admins to maybe work on is warning when beers are potentially infected. When a beer is announced to have infection problems, a ton of people try to quickly unload there's on this forum. On Reddit / * people can reply to warn trader's, but on BA there's no checks and balances. Maybe the admins could flag posts of infected brews somehow. Just an idea.
     
    #237 PDXAmbassador, Jul 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  38. Dexterski

    Dexterski Initiate (0) Feb 8, 2014 New Jersey

    Please do not. It sounds good in theory, but you end up with trolls who think they are the beer police. It's simple enough to just message someone.
     
    warrendietrich2001 and ECCS like this.
  39. Dexterski

    Dexterski Initiate (0) Feb 8, 2014 New Jersey

    Really well said. I want to like this 1000X times.
     
    Brewhead55 and ECCS like this.
  40. TGanyone

    TGanyone Disciple (325) Jan 29, 2014 Iowa
    Trader

    If it bugs you that much than post your trade and just wait till you get a pm. You can ignore your thread altogether.

    Maybe somebody should put a poll together. Curious to see where it would land.
     
    #240 TGanyone, Jul 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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