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Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by Todd, Jul 26, 2021.
Now you're just being argumentative, Mr. Cleese.
This thread has seriously gone sideways...
Ahem, that would be a New England Keller Zwickel.
Oh no wait, it's a lager, so we need to use the appropriate hip term for lager.
Crispy Keller Zwickel.
Wha..? I must've missed a memo.
I thought it was just Pilsners that were supposed to be crisp. Are the hipsters rewriting the glossary again?
This is glorious
Yes. I was going to go with the term “super session” version of Bigfoot, but just used session.
Nothing about the Okto is even remotely close to Bigfoot, but it is reminding me of it.
Funny actually that PA is considered the session version of Celebration IIRC (this was mentioned by Terence or Ken? during one of their beer videos) and the Okto def gives off the same SN signature flavor profile I get with PA. Obviously not as hoppy though.
I believe Celebration and Bigfoot have the exact same malt/hop profiles.
Pale Ale is all Cascade.
Celebration/Bigfoot is Cascade, Centennial, and Chinook.
They all have the same malt profile.
I think "crispy" and "crispy boi" is a bro term, not hipsters.
Please enlighten us on the differences so we can identify the species in the wild.
While you're at it, maybe you can help us separate Hippies from Yippies?
Hipsters = PBR
Bros = New England IPAs (more specifically Tree House)
Did you mean “yuppies”?
And still not buying your breakdown.
When @steveh wrote "Yippies" I wondered if people would confuse it with "Yuppies" (a pretty old - but still used? - characterization itself). When I read @AlcahueteJ guess that it was a typo, I thought to myself, "Oh, man - there's was no confusing Yippies with Yuppies..." and then I remembered the sad tale of Jerry Rubin:
I preferred Hoffman (a preppy Democrat-type dude in high school used to call me "Abbie", in fact , and it wasn't meant as a compliment). Somehow I got on the Yippies! mailing list and I'd get a occasional complimentary copy of their Yipster Times for many years...
Did you get her #?
I think I'll just continue to call them Pilsners.
Ha, ya learn something new everyday.
And as a former card carrying “bro” and living in New England, I feel I’m well versed to speak to the topic.
I also live in Somerville, the capital of “hipsters” in MA, and likely would be the capital for the country next to Brooklyn.
Isn't Kramer the President of the Hipster association? Maybe he gets to decide the Hipster capital?
I think Fishtown/Northern Liberties here in Philly would be #2 and many from Brooklyn are moving here and further pushing the needle
Could be...but MA is the most liberal state in the country, and Somerville is the most liberal city in MA.
For what this is worth: I'm having one of my last cans of the SN '21, packaged on 07-07-21, and it seems to be turning already.
Somewhat vinous and oxidized in nose and flavor. Hop bitterness is leaning to harsh. It actually reminds me of some of the aged Amber Marzens I was weeding through last winter.
I came across another reference to the malt bill of Munich Märzen beers which I thought I would add here. Karl Michel (director of Munich's brewing school at the turn of the century) writes in his book Lehrbuch der Bierbrauerei (1893), in a chapter about the Bavarian (Munich) beers, and after going over the regular jungbier (young beer, i.e winterbier, i.e schenkbier) and lagerbier:
"Another speciality to be mentioned is the Märzenbier - original gravity 15%. It contains up to 1.25 pounds of hop addition per hectoliter malt, and is sent out after 2½-3 months of lagering. Well kilned malt is used without a color malt addition."
Patrik, my read here is that the beer is brewed using 100% Munich Malt. Do you agree?
I had another one recently and felt that same way and it immediately reminded me of the typical SN whole cone hops taste.
You'll have to define that "whole cone" taste to me. I still don't equate this beer to any other SN beer I've ever had -- maybe a couple of their Okto collabs, but I can't pin-point.
I think that this is as good a guess as any, particularly when one considers the references from 1923, 1933 and 1961. I at least would consider this a safe bet. Michel mentions elsewhere that the Munich beer is typically made with 0.5-1% of farbmalz (color malt), Kulka notes that Munich beer is made from Munich malt and with an addition of color malt. The 1961 reference notes that Munich beer is made with 0.5-2% color malt and often with a bit of caramel malt. I think that this was the main differentiating factor between a Munich sommerbier or winterbier, and a Munich Märzen, in the early 1900s, apart from the higher original gravity, and later between a Munich dark lager and a Munich Märzenbier, when a similar relationship in original gravity came to be albeit with lower original gravities for each class of beer.
For me it is how the hops taste in pretty much every SN beer minus their hazies and if you hand me a hoppy SN beer blindly I will probably be able to tell you that it's one of theirs. Just like with SA's Lagers I can do the same because of the yeast that they use.
Hmm. I agree with you on Sam, but I never found the hop character in SN Summerfest to be anything like SNPA or Torpedo (let alone Celebration or Bigfoot).
To my palate, the '01 Okto is definitely more herbal noble hopped than the usual Pac Northwest hops used in so many of the SN ales.
'01? Sorry, been watching the news too much this week. '21.
Yeah, having my first one now and it doesn't taste anything like SNPA to me. Classic German noble hop and malt flavors. Perhaps a bit richer and sweeter than the German marzens, but in the same ballpark.
The August 9th cans are drinking great.
That doesn't bode well.
Gonna hijack this thread for a quick second. @SierraTerence Any chance of seeing Ruthless this fall?
I think you missed your chance. Well, assuming you could have had it shipped from their e-commerce site when it went on sale earlier in the year. Otherwise, no chance.
Well i'm just gonna cry in a corner now.....
WTF is wrong with SN. Bring back Ruthless, Tumbler, Flip side, and Helles in the tropics, and get these crappy haze and sour knock offs off of the shelf's. Just really dont understand there thinking...
Have you seen the sales and re-order statistics from their distributors and retailers for that list of SN beers? No? Yeah, me, neither. But you know who has? The people making those decisions at Sierra Nevada. Not sure their overall brewing and business philosophy, but it's likely, in part, based on what they can sell and what they know is selling for them.
The "thinking" you should be doubting are SN's customers but it's their money and their taste, so...
As for their hazy beer:
It's been well established on these boards that their business philosophy is to abandon beloved beers that sell like hot cakes and replace them with beers that NO ONE wants all to spite their long time customers.
Some suspect the whole operation is just designed to waste water and beer ingredients to spite the planet as well.
Those "Hazies" were all a big misunderstanding from what the industry scuttlebutt says. Apparently SN owner Ken was walking by the big glass window when the consumer panel was trying out the new recipe. The SN employees thought that was what the taster meant when he shouted out:
"That's Gross, Man!"
I don't even try.
And I thought that was Stone’s strategy.
Stones strategy is to sue everyone else out of business, and then reinvent german beer culture