So, how's Beer Trading going?

Who cares if they're offering limited stuff for some (relatively) easy-to-get Pliny? If I offered a Rare for a sixer of Modus, how am I wrong? There is no objective trade value to these beers, simply the desire of both parties involved.

If I had my druthers, ISO/FT would remain reply-less, and any tade value threads would be relegated to their own sub-forum so only those beer-brokers (as opposed to beer-traders) can have their fun arbitrarily citing this stat or that spec to determine "values" apparently inherent in the bottles.

And I don't tend to BM anybody regarding "mis-balanced" trades, but if I did, I wouldn't tell them it's not gonna happen because their beer isn't rare/special enough to garner what they're asking for, but rather tell them that apparently beer trading is all about returns on investments and landing the most limited, most special beers possible and that their beers just aren't up to snuff in the eyes of these brokers. Dammit, people, let's bring trading back to traders and away from brokers!

 

You can do whatever the hell you want but if I thought the only way for me to get it was to offer something limited I would be happy if someone posted in my thread and let me know I didn't have to. If I still wanted to hooray for me. But either way. Who cares. I, like most of you have traded limited stuff for easy to get stuff and vice versa. However, I went into it with my eyes open. All someone's response does is give more people more info. The benefits definitely outweigh someone being mildly irritated by a few responses. The vast majority of responses are on topic and therefore not threadshitting. And if someone gets more than mildly irritated by a response to a thread I don't think we are having the same conversation.

 

Generally speaking, I agree that more information tends to be better than less. However, my point above was that allowing replies in the ISO/FT forum isn't going to make trading any better (I think I'm using a "spiritual"/holistic definition for that), but rather it's going to keep taking things down the wrong road by reinforcing the idea that some beers are intrinsically worth more than others and that a kind of beer value caste system truly exists.

Maybe I'm too much of an idealist, but not only allowing that to happen but also helping it along just seems downright wrong in my eyes.

I will concede, though, that anyone ought to be allowed to trade for whatever with whatever and with whomever, regardless of the opinions of others, so my opinion on this is technically just as meaningless as those that sit on the opposite end of the philosophical spectrum. Still...

 

the number of troll/parody/insane offers is through the roof. If I was a new trader, I'd be so bewildered I don't know what I'd do.

I know you've been back and forth on this one, but if you're leery of moderation, let some users who have been around the block a bit moderate.

I'd prefer if it was an active user, but not an active trader, so there's no conflict of interest. Someone who's posting huge trade offers all the time prob. shouldn't be moderating the trading forums.

 

PS I think there needs to be some serious overhaul for the format- I've seen a HUGE uptick of beer trading on facebook as people leave BA as there's no good way to discuss trades.

And I know the reasons why replies were nixed... just sayin'.

 

I know a lot of people stopped using BA and started using Rate Beer because of the change to how the trade forums are currently with no replies and asinine offers here. I just went to Facebook.

 

Hey my bad man. I was the one who originally used those two beers as examples and in my quick skimming of the thread I must have thought you were saying that in response to my comment.

 

No problem, I can see how it could have been confusing.

 

all right, all right, i'll do it. jesus. stop begging.

 

Honestly, there was more entertainment value with the replies being allowed in the ISO:FT forum. I visited the forum more frequently. Now I don't really log in much unless I am working on a trade myself.

 

I don't mind comments in the ISO:FT forum.

People new to trading getting "schooled" in public on some common etiquette and beer valuations is an efficient way for them to learn the ins-and-outs of beer trading.

When I first started thats how I learned a lot. Also saves time me time from BMing someone who has no idea what they are doing.

 

My personal experience is that beer trading is no longer a BA activity. I simply have less interest in going to the ISO/FT forum without replies being allowed. There are too many outrageous requests without the unmoderated commentary that would make the site fun.

I've used BA less than ever before, it's just lost its mojo for me.

 

Yes to both a Bad Trader sticky and a Trading 101 thread.

For the most part I'm staying out of the conversation debate, but offering a simple "bumping" solution. It's similar to what someone else said above but with less coding, and it would inherently need to be used with a rule about the max number of ISO:FT threads a week. Another forum I'm on handles it this way and it works well. Any post you make in your own thread is a bump. You can bump your thread once every 72 hours. If you bump early you get reported and a one month ban. I'm not saying on THIS forum you should be automatically banned, but warned for sure and temp banned for repeat offenders. That forum is a marketplace, where money is exchanged, so that's why they dish out immediate bans for it.

 

Not an easy/quick solution but here's another offering anyways:

Implement a visual indication of forum misconduct (whether publicly or on the user's profile as a private thing, I prefer public). I think this solves a couple problems. Currently many users feel that user banning/silencing happens randomly and inconsistently. Instead of up and banning someone tick off one of (3?) "strikes" against their account. Make it visual and public so that they know when they did something wrong and how close they are to being banned.

Now, allow replies in the trade forums. Allow the fun banter and playful friendly ribbing that used to go on that so many apparently enjoyed. But when someone gets out of control they get dinged. They'll see that and know they are about to get banned for that behavior. It's pretty common on other forums/online communities to see people who have been silenced with a special icon by their name or something. Like I said I like it public because when I see that I often up and block that person on the spot because I don't want to potentially deal with their BS in the future. The publicity aspect also serves to warn the greater community as well.

I dunno, maybe this is too complicated or simply unnecessary, but I think it would eventually lead to a more grounded community that policed itself in some respects due to the public nature of it all. I also *believe* that I saw once that you guys already keep tabs so to speak on user "bad karma" anyways.

To bring this full circle - tie it directly into beer karma, which is still on the list for the final site rework, yes? Over time/with exceptional good karma users can potentially lift one of the strikes against their account.Perhaps the visual indication of the bad karma is just the opposite of whatever you use for good karma. It can go positive or negative, or move from cool icons to ugly/embarrassing ones.

And of course you still reserve the right to immediately ban someone for any reason you deem appropriate.

 

Given the other thread how about leave ISO:FT as is, leave help as is and create a subforum for something like "current trade trends" where people can post "value/what does it take" threads which yes are a form of ISOs with commentary, etc? People posting in there will be fully aware comments are allowed and people who just want no comments can post in ISOFT.

Maybe I am missing something but it seems like a decent compromise and serves to keep ISOFT clean, will declutter help a bit and allow people to get feedback in another area.

 

Yes
Yes

Replies without bumping seems to make the most sense. Trades will still get done with negative feedback, but the trading community as a whole will benefit from the feedback.

Being a newer user (1year old), learning what is a fair trade through feedback and posts is what taught me how to be fair. If I read a bunch of crazy ISO/FT (like we see currently) it would distort my view on trading and only continue to create this view with new traders.

Craft beer is a growing industry which means beer trading and this site will continue to grow. I think it's a good idea to be proactive in the growth and fairness and teach new craft beer lovers that trading isn't about winning but about sharing.