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so it happened to me.. no options?

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by jaminjohnson, Oct 23, 2012.

  1. deadbody

    deadbody May 10, 2010 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    Companies violate ToS all the time on their own terms for customer loyalty reasons. Those are the terms they give you, if they choose to violate them to your betterment there is not a problem there.

    My guess is the cop didn't read the terms clearly, or didn't really understand them/decided it was a civil matter not criminal. If OP had pushed it and said he wanted the dude arrestted for theft and wanted to file a police report I think a different tune would have been sung.
  2. beer30jax

    beer30jax Jun 27, 2012 Florida
    Beer Trader

    I would stand on public property in front of the guys store with a sign that says "don't use this business, they screwed me" or something to that affect. I guarantee he doesn't want that to happen and will cave, if the beer is still there.
    Beerandraiderfan likes this.
  3. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    IANAL, but if there is one thing I have learned over the years from the lawyers I do know, it's that there is only so much they can do both a) over the Internet, and b) outside their direct area and geography of practice. Point being, it's not quite as easy as golawyeritupformebro.
  4. gn0sis

    gn0sis Dec 17, 2007 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    I know. I'm hoping with the large volume of lawyer BA's we'll get lucky.
  5. nanobrew

    nanobrew Dec 31, 2008 California

    seems like the place has no reviews. Maybe the OP can help out. Whether he is following rules or not, the manager sounds like a jerk. The solution is easy, hand back the box and say "don't do it again". Destroying the contents is just to prove a point and to flex some pseudo power. I never understand why some managers like flexing their muscles when it only cost them business. There truly are a lot of shitty managers out there, and they wonder why their sales go down.

  6. jbeezification

    jbeezification Jun 6, 2012 Texas

    I am obviously late on this topic, but it is not illegal to ship alcohol through fedex, people ship wine literally all the time and they actually make packages specifically for wine bottles. The guy is trying to scare you and he obviously is doing a good job and trying to strong arm you into paying some fine or I don't know something. Lawyer up.

    I had a shipment get damaged a few weeks ago (I made a thread also) and not only did they send back my broken bottles, but they accepted and are paying my insurance claim as well as giving me free shipping for when I re-package and ship again, which I reshipped yesterday at no cost.
  7. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Jul 19, 2009

    Let's stop the madness.....it IS ILLEGAL to ship alcohol across state lines without a license. Period.

    Not saying this guy isn't a douche, but let's keep it to the facts. Three-tier system and all that jazz. Places that DO ship have licenses to do so.
  8. OneBeertoRTA

    OneBeertoRTA Jan 2, 2010 California
    Beer Trader

    Would suck if the FedEx guy found sugar in his gas tank.

    I kid I kid...
  9. Franch

    Franch Mar 22, 2011 District of Columbia
    Beer Trader

    i'd goandlawyeritupformebro just because this guy sounds horrendous and whether it's losing or not, it'd be not a lot of work for a great cause, but unauthorized practice of law is unappetizing.
    Beerandraiderfan likes this.
  10. Ispeakforthetrees

    Ispeakforthetrees Apr 2, 2012 Colorado

    I'd love to know the Fed-Ex location.
    I'd like to file some complaints, and maybe a few personal notes :D
  11. Beerandraiderfan

    Beerandraiderfan Apr 14, 2009 Nevada

    Re: Egregious abuse of power: I don't know how you could make such a determination without knowing what the OP agreed to as his TOS.

    On what basis do you assert the claim of duress? OP certainly hasn't claimed it. He said he didn't know what he was signing. That's not duress. That's carelessness. Harsh, but true.
  12. Beerandraiderfan

    Beerandraiderfan Apr 14, 2009 Nevada

    Well, I think its more complex than, "it's illegal. period." The 21st amendment, section 2 I believe made it up to the states whether the transportation/importation of alcohol is prohibited (or even prohibited outright, which is still permissible, constitutionally speaking).

    So like we've all heard from attorneys before, the correct answer is "it depends." And what it depends on is the law in both the shipping and recipient state, and possibly all those in between.

    This is a decent resource:

  13. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Jul 19, 2009

    That is what source I used actually, and sure there are a couple of exceptions but the general jist is a license is required. Plus you are dealing with packages entering more than just two states for the most part. It is a much more true generalization to say illegal than it is to say legal, surely you will agree with that.

    Edit : not to mention most of the exceptions are for wine and beer if I understand correctly has different laws in most states and is required to be purchased via three tier system
  14. jaminjohnson

    jaminjohnson Jul 3, 2012 Yukon (Canada)

    brees6221 and nanobrew like this.
  15. OddNotion

    OddNotion Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    whiskey, Durb777, robinsmv and 5 others like this.
  16. jegross2

    jegross2 Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    As a friend of the other trader who hear what happened, I'm pretty certain they can't destroy your box. They are bailees for hire. That does not give them rights of anything but possession
  17. jegross2

    jegross2 Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    They can fine you all they want; they have 0 authority to enforce it except to ban you until you pay. They are not a government entity
  18. jegross2

    jegross2 Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    So i just glanced through the FedEx terms and conditions of service, and i did not see any disclaimer of bailee duties, nor anything related to "we can keep your package or destroy it."

    Bailees for hire owe various duties, including a duty care/return of goods and liability for failure to do so. You should seriously call fed ex legal if they havent destroyed your package. they have 0 right to hold it as far as I can tell

    The best they can argue is you maybe violated Sec. 16 of the terms of service...
    "Customer agrees that domestic and international carriage by FedEx of any shipments tendered to FedEx using SHIP MANAGER shall be in accordance with the terms, conditions and limitations of liability set out on the NONNEGOTIABLE Air Waybill, Label, Manifest, or Pick-Up Record"

    But no penalty is specified.

    Neither is something allowing them to do it specified in the prohibited article clauses.

  19. JustinQ

    JustinQ Nov 24, 2011 California

    ahhhh, Shit like this pisses me off so much. The feds and all these other people need to back the F*** off, Not like we are mailing explosives. The government has alot of Pros, But Some of these policies are just F***ing ridiculous. I wish there were REAL people involved, not just these Drones They got runnin shit. If I was shipping my homebrew (which i still do sometimes) I would have no problem paying taxes or whatever, But When I send a box of Commercial beer to a buddy of mine, Who cannot find it where they live, I should not have to put up with ignorant government policies.

    Also, Fedex has no say in ANYTHING unless it's shipping your box, or not shipping your box, If I were you I would go up there and raise hell, and if that did'nt work I would be an idiot and be violent, then claim self defense and look like more of an idiot. Folks Should not be able to regulate our personal activites, I know I sound like an activist of some kind right now, But this kind of stuff is so stupid. Does anyone agree?
    gn0sis likes this.
  20. jegross2

    jegross2 Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Other buried mystery terms from fed ex i found:

    Any domestic U.S. package that is deemed undeliverable (not defined in the rules) will be the responsibility of Customer. Notwithstanding the foregoing, in the event Customer has designated a package threshold value, and such package is below that value, it will be destroyed. >> in which case they would have to reimburse you.
  21. evilc

    evilc Jan 27, 2012 California

    Small claims = you win. Value the beers high. Add costs for fuel to buy them, all of it.
    afrokaze, cbeer88 and JohnGalt1 like this.
  22. jegross2

    jegross2 Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Further inspection:

    "In all cases, it will be necessary for you to prove, in a legally unquestionable manner, the amount of the loss or damage suffered and submit your claim to FedEx within the period set out in Section 8 below. FedEx is not providing any insurance, something that you expressly acknowledge. With the exception of the foregoing, FedEx does not accept any other liability for loss or damage that you may suffer. FedEx will also not be liable for: (i) acts or omissions of the sender, addressee, or any third party, including, among others, defects or faults in wrapping, packing, marking or labeling the shipment; (ii) violation of the terms and conditions contained herein, by the sender or the addressee; (iii) prohibited items; (iv) loss and/or damage arising from causes not the fault of FedEx or from Acts of God, force majeure, natural disasters, public disturbances, or acts of subversive groups, guerillas, or organized crime, or for any other acts or omissions of government authorities, whether federal, state, or municipal."

    BUT that doesnt mean they can intentionally destroy your items. Just that if prohibited items are broken in transit, there is no duty to compensate under their bailee duties (at least that is how i interpret)
    Beerandraiderfan likes this.
  23. jegross2

    jegross2 Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader


    "9. Right to inspect. FedEx may inspect the shipment at any time and may permit government authorities to carry out such inspections as they may consider appropriate. FedEx, in addition, may reject or suspend the carriage of any prohibited items or one that contains materials that damage or may damage other shipments or that may constitute a risk to FedEx equipment or employees or to those of its service providers." >> no right to destroy
  24. badbeer

    badbeer Jun 19, 2005 Iowa
    Beer Trader

    Or a thirsty MF who wants to try some beers...
    MaxSpang and cavedave like this.
  25. ilovermont

    ilovermont Jul 18, 2012 Vermont
    Beer Trader

    OP: do NOT give up on this. This guy is screwing you (without giving you the common courtesy of a reach-around) and is essentially stealing from you. The police aren't going to intervene as it's a property manner. At the very least, take his business to small claims court. (You do not need a lawyer and the expense is minimal).

    This guy is clearly going out of his way to needlessly create stress/headaches for you. There are plenty of things that you can (legally) do to create stress/headaches for him. Forcing him to deal with you in small claims court is just the beginning...
  26. JustinQ

    JustinQ Nov 24, 2011 California

    I have not read much in this thread, But It seems to me like Taking the F**ker to court, or calling the cops or anything else will cause more issues, and possible financial loss then the, say 110$ bucks you spent to send the box. Asshole wins, another BA down on their luck :(

    I would still start some problems just cause thats how I am. But I dont know man, Best of Luck
  27. OneBeertoRTA

    OneBeertoRTA Jan 2, 2010 California
    Beer Trader

    If they don't show up to small claims court, are you awarded by default?
  28. OddNotion

    OddNotion Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Thats what I was saying there, they can fine but cant enforce it as they have no authority to enforce collection.
  29. Beerandraiderfan

    Beerandraiderfan Apr 14, 2009 Nevada

    Of course I will agree with that, its true. Like I said though, its more complex than "its illegal, period."
    MordorMongo likes this.
  30. Ispeakforthetrees

    Ispeakforthetrees Apr 2, 2012 Colorado

    Well, go me.
    I'm a Yelp Elite '12.
    I get to have a bit of an "extra say" when it comes to businesses.
    SaisonFest and jaminjohnson like this.
  31. Beerandraiderfan

    Beerandraiderfan Apr 14, 2009 Nevada

    I agree it is stupid and you would look like an even bigger idiot like you said by pulling the violence/dishonest self defense claim/perjury, but I think you're incorrect in placing blame on "[t]he feds." Federal government gives control to the states over this issue. . . and yet this issue is between a private company and a customer.
  32. Cavanaghty

    Cavanaghty Apr 19, 2012 Maine

    So I just shipped, on Monday, beer through Fed Ex, no issues as of yet. It was dropped at a Fed Ex owned store too. Haven't heard if it made it to it's destination yet, but still no calls no problems yet. I would imagine it is already there or will be soon since it is going from Maine to Florida. Curious to know how this situation turned out for you jaminjohnson?
  33. jaminjohnson

    jaminjohnson Jul 3, 2012 Yukon (Canada)

    Fed ex's customer service manager said, hmm well they should have just given it back to you etc. They are investigating the situation and sopposed to be getting back with me shortly.
  34. lvoutlawjlh

    lvoutlawjlh Mar 15, 2012 Nebraska
    Beer Trader

    What movie is your avatar jaminjohnson? #oopsIfail
  35. jaminjohnson

    jaminjohnson Jul 3, 2012 Yukon (Canada)

    Ice T as a Post apocolyptic ninja kangaroo
    Tank Girl
    *the ninja kangaroo in my pick isnt Ice T though, but the other burnt out funny one
    lvoutlawjlh and tacosandbeer like this.
  36. jamvt

    jamvt Aug 5, 2005 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    jaminjohnson likes this.
  37. Theeabyss

    Theeabyss Apr 19, 2012 Illinois

    Hopefully him and his fat Romney loving ass never reproduces. They will make some ugly ass babies.
  38. Ispeakforthetrees

    Ispeakforthetrees Apr 2, 2012 Colorado

    Did you get any sense of closure or response as of yet?
  39. jaminjohnson

    jaminjohnson Jul 3, 2012 Yukon (Canada)

    no, going to call fed ex in the am to see what they have done, called back friday morning and they said they were investigating and that they wouldnt be continuing it on the weekend so it might be a few days.
  40. jegross2

    jegross2 Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    franklinn likes this.
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