1. Looking to trade some beers? Check out How to Get Started with Beer Trading.

so it happened to me.. no options?

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by jaminjohnson, Oct 23, 2012.

  1. Beerandraiderfan

    Beerandraiderfan Initiate (0) Apr 14, 2009 Nevada

    Well, I think its more complex than, "it's illegal. period." The 21st amendment, section 2 I believe made it up to the states whether the transportation/importation of alcohol is prohibited (or even prohibited outright, which is still permissible, constitutionally speaking).

    So like we've all heard from attorneys before, the correct answer is "it depends." And what it depends on is the law in both the shipping and recipient state, and possibly all those in between.

    This is a decent resource:

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004/alcohol-policy.htm
     
  2. jaminjohnson

    jaminjohnson Initiate (189) Jul 3, 2012 Yukon (Canada)

    brees6221 and nanobrew like this.
  3. OddNotion

    OddNotion Devotee (478) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    whiskey, Durb777, robinsmv and 5 others like this.
  4. jegross2

    jegross2 Meyvn (1,210) Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    As a friend of the other trader who hear what happened, I'm pretty certain they can't destroy your box. They are bailees for hire. That does not give them rights of anything but possession
     
  5. jegross2

    jegross2 Meyvn (1,210) Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    They can fine you all they want; they have 0 authority to enforce it except to ban you until you pay. They are not a government entity
     
  6. jegross2

    jegross2 Meyvn (1,210) Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    So i just glanced through the FedEx terms and conditions of service, and i did not see any disclaimer of bailee duties, nor anything related to "we can keep your package or destroy it."

    Bailees for hire owe various duties, including a duty care/return of goods and liability for failure to do so. You should seriously call fed ex legal if they havent destroyed your package. they have 0 right to hold it as far as I can tell

    The best they can argue is you maybe violated Sec. 16 of the terms of service...
    "Customer agrees that domestic and international carriage by FedEx of any shipments tendered to FedEx using SHIP MANAGER shall be in accordance with the terms, conditions and limitations of liability set out on the NONNEGOTIABLE Air Waybill, Label, Manifest, or Pick-Up Record"

    But no penalty is specified.

    Neither is something allowing them to do it specified in the prohibited article clauses.

    FYI:
    http://www.fedex.com/cgi-bin/global_legal.cgi?cc=us&sc=/legal
    http://www.fedex.com/us/freight/rulestariff/prohibited_articles.html
     
  7. JustinQ

    JustinQ Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2011 California

    ahhhh, Shit like this pisses me off so much. The feds and all these other people need to back the F*** off, Not like we are mailing explosives. The government has alot of Pros, But Some of these policies are just F***ing ridiculous. I wish there were REAL people involved, not just these Drones They got runnin shit. If I was shipping my homebrew (which i still do sometimes) I would have no problem paying taxes or whatever, But When I send a box of Commercial beer to a buddy of mine, Who cannot find it where they live, I should not have to put up with ignorant government policies.

    Also, Fedex has no say in ANYTHING unless it's shipping your box, or not shipping your box, If I were you I would go up there and raise hell, and if that did'nt work I would be an idiot and be violent, then claim self defense and look like more of an idiot. Folks Should not be able to regulate our personal activites, I know I sound like an activist of some kind right now, But this kind of stuff is so stupid. Does anyone agree?
     
    gn0sis likes this.
  8. jegross2

    jegross2 Meyvn (1,210) Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Other buried mystery terms from fed ex i found:

    Any domestic U.S. package that is deemed undeliverable (not defined in the rules) will be the responsibility of Customer. Notwithstanding the foregoing, in the event Customer has designated a package threshold value, and such package is below that value, it will be destroyed. >> in which case they would have to reimburse you.
     
  9. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) Jan 27, 2012 California

    Small claims = you win. Value the beers high. Add costs for fuel to buy them, all of it.
     
    afrokaze, cbeer88 and JohnGalt1 like this.
  10. jegross2

    jegross2 Meyvn (1,210) Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Further inspection:

    "In all cases, it will be necessary for you to prove, in a legally unquestionable manner, the amount of the loss or damage suffered and submit your claim to FedEx within the period set out in Section 8 below. FedEx is not providing any insurance, something that you expressly acknowledge. With the exception of the foregoing, FedEx does not accept any other liability for loss or damage that you may suffer. FedEx will also not be liable for: (i) acts or omissions of the sender, addressee, or any third party, including, among others, defects or faults in wrapping, packing, marking or labeling the shipment; (ii) violation of the terms and conditions contained herein, by the sender or the addressee; (iii) prohibited items; (iv) loss and/or damage arising from causes not the fault of FedEx or from Acts of God, force majeure, natural disasters, public disturbances, or acts of subversive groups, guerillas, or organized crime, or for any other acts or omissions of government authorities, whether federal, state, or municipal."

    BUT that doesnt mean they can intentionally destroy your items. Just that if prohibited items are broken in transit, there is no duty to compensate under their bailee duties (at least that is how i interpret)
     
    Beerandraiderfan likes this.
  11. jegross2

    jegross2 Meyvn (1,210) Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    More:

    "9. Right to inspect. FedEx may inspect the shipment at any time and may permit government authorities to carry out such inspections as they may consider appropriate. FedEx, in addition, may reject or suspend the carriage of any prohibited items or one that contains materials that damage or may damage other shipments or that may constitute a risk to FedEx equipment or employees or to those of its service providers." >> no right to destroy
     
  12. badbeer

    badbeer Initiate (0) Jun 19, 2005 Iowa
    Beer Trader

    Or a thirsty MF who wants to try some beers...
     
    MaxSpang and cavedave like this.
  13. ilovermont

    ilovermont Initiate (43) Jul 18, 2012 Vermont
    Beer Trader

    OP: do NOT give up on this. This guy is screwing you (without giving you the common courtesy of a reach-around) and is essentially stealing from you. The police aren't going to intervene as it's a property manner. At the very least, take his business to small claims court. (You do not need a lawyer and the expense is minimal).

    This guy is clearly going out of his way to needlessly create stress/headaches for you. There are plenty of things that you can (legally) do to create stress/headaches for him. Forcing him to deal with you in small claims court is just the beginning...
     
  14. JustinQ

    JustinQ Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2011 California

    I have not read much in this thread, But It seems to me like Taking the F**ker to court, or calling the cops or anything else will cause more issues, and possible financial loss then the, say 110$ bucks you spent to send the box. Asshole wins, another BA down on their luck :(

    I would still start some problems just cause thats how I am. But I dont know man, Best of Luck
     
  15. OneBeertoRTA

    OneBeertoRTA Devotee (487) Jan 2, 2010 California
    Beer Trader

    If they don't show up to small claims court, are you awarded by default?
     
  16. OddNotion

    OddNotion Devotee (478) Nov 1, 2009 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    Thats what I was saying there, they can fine but cant enforce it as they have no authority to enforce collection.
     
  17. Beerandraiderfan

    Beerandraiderfan Initiate (0) Apr 14, 2009 Nevada

    Of course I will agree with that, its true. Like I said though, its more complex than "its illegal, period."
     
    MordorMongo likes this.
  18. Ispeakforthetrees

    Ispeakforthetrees Aspirant (232) Apr 2, 2012 Colorado

    Well, go me.
    I'm a Yelp Elite '12.
    I get to have a bit of an "extra say" when it comes to businesses.
     
    SaisonFest and jaminjohnson like this.
  19. Beerandraiderfan

    Beerandraiderfan Initiate (0) Apr 14, 2009 Nevada

    I agree it is stupid and you would look like an even bigger idiot like you said by pulling the violence/dishonest self defense claim/perjury, but I think you're incorrect in placing blame on "[t]he feds." Federal government gives control to the states over this issue. . . and yet this issue is between a private company and a customer.
     
  20. Cavanaghty

    Cavanaghty Champion (857) Apr 19, 2012 Maine

    So I just shipped, on Monday, beer through Fed Ex, no issues as of yet. It was dropped at a Fed Ex owned store too. Haven't heard if it made it to it's destination yet, but still no calls no problems yet. I would imagine it is already there or will be soon since it is going from Maine to Florida. Curious to know how this situation turned out for you jaminjohnson?
     
  21. jaminjohnson

    jaminjohnson Initiate (189) Jul 3, 2012 Yukon (Canada)

    Fed ex's customer service manager said, hmm well they should have just given it back to you etc. They are investigating the situation and sopposed to be getting back with me shortly.
     
  22. lvoutlawjlh

    lvoutlawjlh Disciple (301) Mar 15, 2012 Nebraska
    Beer Trader

    What movie is your avatar jaminjohnson? #oopsIfail
     
  23. jaminjohnson

    jaminjohnson Initiate (189) Jul 3, 2012 Yukon (Canada)

    Ice T as a Post apocolyptic ninja kangaroo
    aka
    Tank Girl
    *the ninja kangaroo in my pick isnt Ice T though, but the other burnt out funny one
     
    lvoutlawjlh and tacosandbeer like this.
  24. jamvt

    jamvt Disciple (379) Aug 5, 2005 Massachusetts
    Beer Trader

    jaminjohnson likes this.
  25. Theeabyss

    Theeabyss Initiate (0) Apr 19, 2012 Illinois

    Hopefully him and his fat Romney loving ass never reproduces. They will make some ugly ass babies.
     
  26. Ispeakforthetrees

    Ispeakforthetrees Aspirant (232) Apr 2, 2012 Colorado

    @jaminjohnson,
    Did you get any sense of closure or response as of yet?
     
  27. jaminjohnson

    jaminjohnson Initiate (189) Jul 3, 2012 Yukon (Canada)

    no, going to call fed ex in the am to see what they have done, called back friday morning and they said they were investigating and that they wouldnt be continuing it on the weekend so it might be a few days.
     
  28. jegross2

    jegross2 Meyvn (1,210) Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    GL
     
    franklinn likes this.
  29. Theeabyss

    Theeabyss Initiate (0) Apr 19, 2012 Illinois

    Well today was my last day working for that shit company. Thankfully I was halfway out the door looking for a new job. I may just visit this jackhole now.
     
    lvoutlawjlh and jegross2 like this.
  30. Tilley4

    Tilley4 Poo-Bah (1,605) Nov 13, 2007 Tennessee
    Beer Trader

    You lost your job over this incident?? I may be using a different vendor if that's the case...
     
    Theeabyss likes this.
  31. deadbody

    deadbody Aspirant (293) May 10, 2010 Minnesota
    Beer Trader


    Serious dick move by the company.
     
    Theeabyss and MordorMongo like this.
  32. da_bulls

    da_bulls Initiate (0) Jun 7, 2012 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Just when you thought this thread couldn't get any worse. :eek: Best wishes and good luck to both parties of this F'd up trade.
     
  33. jaminjohnson

    jaminjohnson Initiate (189) Jul 3, 2012 Yukon (Canada)

    damn this sucks, what was the reason? its not like you know what people send you?
     
  34. VegasHopHead

    VegasHopHead Aspirant (234) Jun 21, 2012 Nevada
    Beer Trader

    Its a civil matter, get a lawyer involved is your best bet. that being said, generally with civl matters involving property belonging to you thats in the custody of another, generally if you can prove its yours then i would release it to the owner and make it on the business to file civil charges. Sounds like the police are just being way to timid and dont want to work.
     
  35. jegross2

    jegross2 Meyvn (1,210) Jan 3, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    At will employment is a bitch :(

    Sorry I couldnt be of more help to you Jeff
     
    Theeabyss likes this.
  36. hooliganlife

    hooliganlife Meyvn (1,302) Apr 12, 2007 Missouri
    Beer Trader

    Fed ex busted me once, they told me to come get the box and that it just needed to be sent with signature confirmation by someone 21 years of age.
     
  37. Theeabyss

    Theeabyss Initiate (0) Apr 19, 2012 Illinois

    not upholding company name and integrity. Biggest line of BS ever.....i told myself I would avoid going to work in corp america again. Guess I learned my lesson.
     
  38. jaminjohnson

    jaminjohnson Initiate (189) Jul 3, 2012 Yukon (Canada)

    that is the weakest shit ever. sorry man..
     
  39. jaminjohnson

    jaminjohnson Initiate (189) Jul 3, 2012 Yukon (Canada)

    Closure
    My end - FedEx said after investigating they couldnt do anything for me and it was just between me and the "mail box store" so I lost a combined 100$ of beer and non refunded shipping. shitty but will deffinately get over it

    Other end - A BA lost not beer.. but their job

    wow.....just.. wow

    I guess it can only get better from here on out

    extremely sorry Jeff, I hope everything works out for the best!
     
  40. Ispeakforthetrees

    Ispeakforthetrees Aspirant (232) Apr 2, 2012 Colorado

    I'm confused as perhaps this was already debated earlier but because FedEx said it is between you and the store, how can the store claim you violated FedEx policies?
     
  • About Us

    Your go-to website for beer (since 1996), publishers of BeerAdvocate magazine (since 2006) and hosts of world-class beer events (since 2003). Respect Beer.
  • BeerAdvocate Microbrew Invitational

    Join us June 2-3, 2017 in Boston, Mass. for beer, cider, mead, kombucha and sake from over 70 small producers.

    Learn More
  • Subscribe to BeerAdvocate Magazine

    No fake news here. Get real beer content delivered to your doorstep every month.

    Subscribe