So when did "extras" become mandatory?!

Discussion in 'Trade Talk' started by mtbdonn, Jan 2, 2013.

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  1. Tiger33

    Tiger33 Initiate (0) Oct 28, 2011 North Carolina

    I don't think extras are mandatory but I think they are always a I nice surprise. Something unexpected or something from someone's hometown is always nice to see. Only once or twice have I not sent extras and that has been because I didn't have anything handy and was in a rush to ship.
    tacosandbeer likes this.
  2. OneDropSoup

    OneDropSoup Meyvn (1,048) Dec 9, 2008 Pennsylvania

    The only time I haven't sent extras was with a quick, utility trade where we specifically agreed to no extra (& I still received one - thanks again, Cuzco!).
  3. 2beerdogs

    2beerdogs Poo-Bah (2,033) Jan 31, 2005 California
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Don't worry Petie. If the trader was good to you, send'em a message that says what you said right here. All will be fine. There's a learning curve least for most of us there is.:slight_smile:
  4. juliusseizure

    juliusseizure Aspirant (262) Feb 11, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    Unless the deal is X and extras/locals for Y and extras/locals, no extras should be expected. It is an "extra" for a reason and if you are expecting something in return, you really aren't sending the extras for the right reason. You are just expanding the trade so you get something extra in return.

    I've had good reasons not to include extras, like coming back with growlers and growlers from HF where shipping quickly to all trade partners took precedent over trying to find the right extras. Not one of the trade partners complained and I got an extra in each of those trades. I've completed second trades with a couple of those traders as well.

    I've also had trades where the extras were worth as much as the actual trade. In the end, extras are just that, EXTRAS. People espousing views of "I never trade with these people again" should stop calling them EXTRAS and call them their TEST beers, i.e. testing if a trader is worthy of future consideration.
  5. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    Because many traders are in this community for fun, and extras are a huge part of the fun of trading. Not sending extras doesn't make you an asshole, or even necessarily cheap, but it does make you somebody that most established traders are probably not going to want to trade with.

    Really, if you can't be arsed to include a couple of extra bottles in a box like most traders, why even bother? The difference in shipping cost with an extra 2-3 bottles in a box is negligible, and nobody is saying you need to send crazy whales as extras. Just try to hit a locally obtainable want, or give them something good that they've never had.
  6. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Poo-Bah (2,482) Jun 18, 2002 Arizona

    But aren't tips expected nowadays?

    'Gratuity' strikes me as no longer relevant as an accurate descriptor. Maybe it should be "service fee".
    oldp0rt likes this.
  7. jmw

    jmw Initiate (0) Feb 4, 2009 North Carolina

    So you're saying that a box sent to or received from the UK would not be expected to have any extras? Tipping is relative, extras are extra.
  8. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    I don't think anybody is going to complain about not getting extras when there is good reason not to (such as rushing back a HF growler). But from the sentiment of your post, you clearly believe in sending extras when practical to do so. And on your profile page you call out traders who sent great extras, so you do put some stock into them...
  9. daysinthewake

    daysinthewake Initiate (0) Nov 13, 2010 California

    I understand, but that makes it sound like extras are a tip. The fact is that they're not mandatory, but they are very likely. I'll bet he sent you some. If I don't want to send extras I make that clear, so they don't waste their money. I think that's standard. Extras are the most fun part about trading.

    Edit: Should have read the thread first as it appears all of this has been said.
    oldp0rt likes this.
  10. oldp0rt

    oldp0rt Initiate (0) Feb 24, 2011 Quebec (Canada)

    I'll always do my best to fit in a few extras because I love getting some in return. Whether they be wants, favorites or even random locals that let you discover new breweries. Extras make the whole game fun as long as both parties play along.

    You don't want extras to be involved, make that clear at the start.
  11. Sarlacc83

    Sarlacc83 Crusader (752) Mar 2, 2008 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    Extras are mandatory, not because they're 'mandatory', but because they're fun and everyone enjoys receiving a thoughtful gift. The lot of you who are scrooges about the whole thing, or who are weaseling out of them by saying, it's an 'extra', scare me. It's like there's a cadre of people looking for the loophole in the system. Be generous.

    Dude's a crappy negotiator? Send him a couple locals and be done with it. Maybe no one ever knows you did so in spite of the other person being a prat, but you can either shame someone with guilt or shame them with kindness. And who knows, maybe that person gives you a sterling trade endorsement to another trader who proceeds to hook you up. Again, be generous.
  12. VncentLIFE

    VncentLIFE Meyvn (1,417) Feb 16, 2011 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    well you hooked me up with some great beers, so I had to return the favor!
    Holmes698 likes this.
  13. litheum94

    litheum94 Initiate (0) Dec 29, 2008 California

    I totally get what you're saying and agree that it's not that big of a deal. I throw in extras in almost all of my trades. It's just that some of these replies reek of the beer geek entitlement issue, and that bothers me.

    Trading is supposed to be fun. So don't get bent out of shape if someone didn't give you extra beer.
  14. jtmiller03

    jtmiller03 Initiate (0) Feb 2, 2008 Oklahoma

    I always ask my trading partners if they want me to send a 6 or 12 bottle shipper. Their reply always sets the tone for extras. I also try to always ship first and let them repack the same box. Then everyone knows what/how much to expect. I aklmost always get outdone with the extras. Be nice, karma is real.
  15. kenpo23

    kenpo23 Initiate (0) Oct 8, 2009 Massachusetts

    I had the pleasure to do a trade and a BIF right before ending up unemployed, which killed my ability to trade. I made sure to include extras for one simple reason.... I wanted to. I wanted to make sure the people who got those boxes opened the box and said "Awesome!". Part of the problem with people today is that we all expect something in return. When I can afford to trade again...I will continue to put extras in and see no reason to be mad if there is no extra in my box.
  16. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,441) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    Oh, I don't know, if you look at it like tipping I think those two descriptors are right on the money.
    MordorMongo and dvelcich like this.
  17. draheim

    draheim Poo-Bah (2,436) Sep 18, 2010 Washington
    Beer Trader

    You just got me to check which list I'm on.
    MordorMongo and cavedave like this.
  18. Johnnyramirez

    Johnnyramirez Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2012 California

    My problem is I hate surprises. So I usually blurt out what I sent including extras. First trade was for 2 Pliny and I sent an Enjoy By 12/21 and I explicitly told him I was sending it. But it's still an extra.

    My next trade I meant to include Stone Mint Chocolate Stout and Damnation 23 as extras but ended up including them in the main trade and send a Mischief, Redemption, and AleSmith IPA as extras. That was a 200+ oz box before extras and I couldn't fit anything else in the box. He knew what they were before I sent them too. But again they were extras.

    Maybe it ruins the surprise but I wouldn't expect them to send extras just because I normally send them. That said I have gotten extras that I enjoyed in my first trade and I'm getting a 50 LB box today in my second, so a surprise box is probably in order.

    The way I see it, unless either of us is being a dick, I probably want to trade again with them, so like a crack dealer, give them extra and keep them coming back for more.
  19. merc7186

    merc7186 Initiate (0) Dec 5, 2010 New York

    Man...this thread is great!!! It is helping me compile a list of people who don't send extras because they don't feel the need to and because 'Im entitled' Please keep it coming.

    To any new traders out there, while this thread has gotten very heated to the point where people are picking sides (Go Team Extras!), extras are up to you...but if you want people to post positively on their Profiles, toss in a couple of local cans or 12oz bottles, you'll feel better about it and be happy with what extras you get in return.

    Another great thing about this thread is that it has made me aware to update my profile page regarding extras too.
  20. Johnnyramirez

    Johnnyramirez Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2012 California

    I hope I'm not on anyone's shit list because I say what extras I send. :/
  21. tacosandbeer

    tacosandbeer Aspirant (284) Sep 24, 2010 Nebraska
    Beer Trader

    Sounds like you should update the Beer Trading Rules & Info bit.
  22. thenamestsam

    thenamestsam Initiate (121) Sep 13, 2012 New York

    Tipping at a restaurant or tipping at a Starbucks or tipping at a book store? The reality is that the etiquette behind giving that something extra depends almost entirely on the situation and as with any unwritten rules there's going to be a world of disagreement.

    My minimum tip at a restaurant for even the most miserable service is 20%. Tip goes up from there as service improves. I'd call someone who'd tip 0% under any circumstances a complete asshole, but I'm 100% sure that some posting in this thread would disagree. Matters of etiquette are always more complicated than people want to make them seem and obscure matters of etiquette are even worse.

    My recommendation: There's only one way you can be in a position where you can be sure that nobody's feelings will get hurt, which is that you plan to be generous with extras out of the goodness of your heart and legitimately will not be upset if you don't receive anything in return. If that's you then don't worry about it. But that seems to cover very few people on this thread. Most either don't send any normally, or do send some normally, but with the expectation that they will get some in return. In either case the best thing is probably for both parties to make their expectations clear during the process.
    johnyb likes this.
  23. starrdogg

    starrdogg Champion (827) Jun 21, 2010 District of Columbia
    Beer Trader

    I'm not sure that extras are mandatory, but after 2+ years of trading on this site, I would say that extras are certainly expected. If you're not planning to include extras, I would highly recommend laying this out at the beginning of the trade so that your trade partner doesn't feel obligated to include them either, otherwise he might feel a little put-out. It's totally cool if you don't want to include extras, but most people do, and not doing so without making it clear beforehand is a bit of a dick move in my opinion.
    claaark13, johnyb and buffs9 like this.
  24. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,441) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    merc7186 likes this.
  25. tacosandbeer

    tacosandbeer Aspirant (284) Sep 24, 2010 Nebraska
    Beer Trader

    How is this an extra? What was the point of mentioning it and the price tag if it's an 'extra'?
  26. ColonelCash

    ColonelCash Initiate (0) Jul 6, 2011 Tennessee

    Wouldn't asking for extras make it part of the trade, albeit a potentially random part of the trade?
    MordorMongo, SammyJaxxxx and dvelcich like this.
  27. Johnnyramirez

    Johnnyramirez Initiate (0) Nov 17, 2012 California

    I don't think you're supposed to ask for them. Just say "I'm sending x beers for y beers, plus ill shoot you a few extras" if they want to send them then they will
    merc7186 likes this.
  28. Pando

    Pando Aspirant (208) Dec 5, 2011 Connecticut
    Beer Trader

    I've always traded with a $ limit (Ex: $50). When we talk about the trade (specifically our wants) I would give them an idea on what would bring them up to that limit. With that being said, I always go about $10-$15 over that limit but that is because I WANT to do that and I like when the person I'm trading with gets excited when they open their package. If they do the same I am always happy, but if they don't I don't take it personally…..I don't get offended. Tack this up to the "Pussification of America" and people thinking they are entitled to things or are too worried about offending someone. I treat everyone with the respect that I expect to be treated with….that is until they don't deserve my respect anymore. I won't however trade with someone who rubs me the wrong way in our conversations like "mtbdonn" is talking about.

    If "extras" are talked about, they are NOT extras…..they are beers talked about and agreed on in the trade. Extras are beers people aren't expecting. In my eyes, extras should be a surprise that the person doesn't know about.
    johnyb likes this.
  29. pschul4

    pschul4 Zealot (562) Jan 7, 2011 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    Personally this is my favorite part of trading. I still remember a text from RochesterAaron early the morning my box landed on his door step "Dude... WTF?!" That is a way way better feeling than "winning" a trade.

    If the "winners" need a reason to throw in extras keep this in mind: If you regularly crush porches everyone is going to want to trade with you and will likely be more willing to let their favorite (read: rare) beers go if you've shown a tendency to go overboard with the extras. The opposite is also true
  30. merc7186

    merc7186 Initiate (0) Dec 5, 2010 New York

    You're putting the pussy up on a pedestal... :slight_smile:
    domtronzero and Pando like this.

    CORKSCREWFISH Initiate (0) Apr 22, 2011 Illinois

    I absolutely love this answer! Can't agree more! Entitlement issues at work bigtime here. Reflection of society as a whole today.Pretty sickening IMHO,of course!
  32. thenamestsam

    thenamestsam Initiate (121) Sep 13, 2012 New York

    Based solely on this thread it seems like it may not be as customary overall as it has been in your experience.

    Either way, I don't disagree with you, except to add that if you're going to be upset if you don't receive them why not just take it on yourself to bring up the issue when you're discussing the trade? In the situation you're describing both the person who isn't planning on sending any extras and the person who will be upset if they don't get any extras know that there is the potential for one person to have hurt feelings/be upset about the trade. I think both parties should take it upon themselves to make clear their expectations. Nothing is lost by doing so.
  33. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    I've done about 50+ trades, and I have never, not once, received or sent a box without extras unless it was clearly laid out ahead of time. i.e. "I'm shipping these two bottles in a 2-bottle shipper, so let's not do extras". Or, "let's set a price limit on the box and just send whatever" (basically a 2-person BIF).

    For the most part, if you look at the "anti-extras" camp, it's a lot of newer users and/or users who don't trade a lot. i.e. people who don't really understand the customs of the trading community.
  34. tacosandbeer

    tacosandbeer Aspirant (284) Sep 24, 2010 Nebraska
    Beer Trader

    Nice to see they have a spokesperson.
  35. Bad_Trader

    Bad_Trader Initiate (0) Nov 8, 2012 Namibia

    The best part about extras, are that they aren't required but are still expected. I can send out a box without them, get a box in return that has awesome ones, and not only do I win the trade in landslide fashion, but you can't label me as a bad trader because the agreed upon beers arrived on time and in tact!

    Seriously though; my actual take on this scenario is that the person who posed this question didn't feel like he had a smooth enjoyable experience, and elected to not send extras. Guy he traded with became a whiney tard and rudely let him know he was bothered by it. I would have still sent extras, but if the trade didn't go smoothly, they wouldn't have been as nice as they otherwise would have been, and I typically send brewery only extras etc, often at greater desirability than many/all of the agreed upon beers.

    To use the analogy that everyone sees most fitting.

    I had an unenjoyable experience/bad service at a restaurant. (Bad trading communication)

    I neglected to tip/tipped very little. (no extras)

    Server/bartender made a stink about it. (Trader cried about receiving no extras)

    I would have tipped/over-tipped despite bad service. (I still would have sent some extras, probably not as many)

    I usually tip about 25%, sometimes as much as 50% if it's a single beer etc. (I send great extras usually)

    Crying about not getting extras (in this case) seems like a much douchier move than not sending them, given the details provided.
  36. Fluke828

    Fluke828 Initiate (0) Feb 2, 2011 Massachusetts

    This. Unless explicitly agreed upon by both sides prior to shipping, I always toss in at least a couple "extra" beers. Makes trading more enjoyable, both in surprising the other person as well as opening up a box and being surprised myself.
  37. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Crusader (719) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    This word really needs to be removed from the dictionary. It has been overused to the point that it has completely lost all meaning.

    Either side of this debate could justifiably sling the "entitlement" word at the other side, which is almost always the case, which is why nobody should ever use the word again.
    vurt, jedwards, Levitation and 4 others like this.
  38. dvelcich

    dvelcich Initiate (0) Feb 6, 2008 Illinois

    I can't believe all the negative sentiment in this thread. There are clearly too many people who don't understand the spirit of trading.

    Extras are mandatory unless you specify in the trade that you're not going to be sending any for whatever reason.

    Those reasons can be whatever you want them to be, but don't let someone go out of their way to nail a couple of your Wants and spend some extra $$$ on you when you have absolutely no intention of reciprocating.

    That is what makes you an asshole.
  39. smutty33

    smutty33 Defender (632) Jun 12, 2009 Connecticut
    Beer Trader

    I have always given/received extras.Then again I always makes sure to ask and see if trade partner wants to participate.If not,cool,atleast I know and we are on the same page.As its been said already,extras can be the best part of a trade!I just make sure and say,"I don't care if its a pale ale,as long as I don't get it in my area and it's FRESH,I'm game!"

    Happy Trading,

    Cheers All........
  40. Dope

    Dope Poo-Bah (2,384) Oct 5, 2010 Massachusetts

    If you're worried about money or the efficient use thereof, then trading is not for you. If you want to receive hard-to-get beers that you would not be able to obtain via any other method (except maybe ebay), then trading is a good option.

    As for the original question, I would say that extras are customary, not mandatory. I've never done a trade where I did not send or receive extras (unless explicitly defined ahead of time).

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