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Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by RayOhioFelton, Feb 24, 2013.
I'm not really sure you know what we're talking about, but it's OK.
ISO: best offer
I will argue that you are misapplying the definition. A commodity is a relatively generic product that differs little between producers. Milk is a commodity, you can buy it from several different sources and it there is little difference between the product. There is nothing about it that stands out, nothing that really develops any brand loyalty, nothing that will draw one person to one brand over another.
If someone was to miss out on KBS there is not a readily available substitute. You cannot go out and pick up just anything off the shelf that replaces it.
I didn't bother trying to find KBS last year because I didn't feel like going through the hassle it's become. I wound up finding some at a store a little over a month after the release, just by chance. It kind of seems as though a few weeks after it drops, people generally stop caring, and whatever stores might still have it lying around start putting it on shelves.
As such, part of me would like to see stores stay quiet during the release, then just throw a bottle or two up for sale every now and then. I feel like so much of the mania (and subsequent bitterness, should one not get any) that is driven by KBS's arrival is everyone's expectation that it's going to be somewhere at a given time - "I've got 48 hours to find my bottles or I'll never get any!" If you take that sense of urgency out of the equation, I doubt even the craziest KBS fanatics would keep up the game too long, going from store to store every single day. If you happen to go to the store one day and see a bottle, great. If you go to the store one day and don't see a bottle, it doesn't bother you too much because you weren't counting on seeing one.
Of course, I see no reason why any individual store would want to do this.
In my analogy KBS is milk. Different beer shops are the sources. But your point about brand loyalty make sense. I think stocks are probably a better analogy.
That solved the problem of people lining up for Pliny the Younger. Oh, wait.
But KBS is one brand made buy one producer, when talking about a commodity you are talking about uniform product from several competitors. You may have a better argument with stock, we'll have to see.
Good debate my man. I am glad that some can see an honest back and forth between two people as a worthy conversation and not turn it into something more than that. We may never agree on this but I feel beer as a commodity is an interesting conversation to have.
We likely never would agree, and honestly my belief on this applies to everything, not just beer. I think auctions are shown to be the most efficient pricing mechanism across all products merely for arriving at a price. Actually putting this into practice would probably be quite inefficient. I am speaking more on theoretical terms. But anyway, I am glad I can get beer that in my eyes is undervalued and hope it stays that way and am looking forward to KBS Day to drink my fill.
I worked for a distributor and our allocations of limited releases like this were based on an account's sales volume for said brand. For example, the number of cases of KBS a shop got were based on the number of cases of Founder's year round and seasonals they sold, YTD.
I'm not even sure it would be feasible, but it makes me wonder if a shop could apply the same practices to thank the customer's that allowed them to get their cases. This may be difficult to execute but it seems like there could be ways to make it work, wheter it be saving receipts or creating a punch card for each brand that gets punched when a 6 pack is purchased. Whoever has the most full punch cards from a brewery when they have a special release could redeem them for first shot at purchasing some. Or if a store has the technology they could just create a customer database and capture purchase history, essentially doing the same thing.
the true fair way is first come first serve/put it on the shelf. Honestly a store owner doesn't HAVE to do anything more.
Essentially the same idea as most of the rewards programs. The rewards are really just incentive to get the customer to allow capture of purchasing data.
Because if he lied to you and then you found out he got a case that is what the thread would be about. Sounds like he was just being truthful to you. I don't have an issue with that. The store I frequent rewards customers in varying ways and sometimes I miss out and sometimes I get lucky. I am happy either way, I shop at the store because I like the owner and the people that work there. The store just works for me, and if a few limited releases fall in my lap so be it, but whether that happens or not it won't change my frequency of visits.
I'm not understanding why you're wasting your time in this other store when there are two others you say are "Far superior".
Listen. I've been shopping at this place for years. The owner brought up the fact he gets a case of KBS after I told him I scored one this winter on a trip up to Michigan. He must have slipped because asking about it on a future trip he says I don't spend enough to get one. That's fine I'm not going to picket outside the place or anything.
The point is it isn't cool that he tried to pull a bait and switch with a KBS at the end of a stick! I stop in multiple times a month to check things out, shopped there for years and have spent a lot of money so tell me it's already spoken for or something. Don't tell me sorry bud break out your wallet. That is just rude. If I really wanted KBS tell you what, I'll take the 4 hour drive to Michigan and score more than the two beers being kept from me for not spending hundreded a week on beer.
Side note there is a lot of wines and a nice humidor in the store. The millionaire who buys a $120 bottle of wine and a $50 cigar an have the KBS.
Anyone who thinks that's an appropriate way to talk to any customer isn't getting the point. I'm in no way upset not to get one special release. I haven't got one of these KBS from this store for the past 3 years. The difference this year is I was informed about the opportunity and told to spend more money. Told I'm not spending enough. Could you imagine going any other establishment and being told you aren't spending enough to please the owner?
That's beer for ya though. I feel like I was this guy gettin the snicklefritz!
you mean "Buku bucks" .
but yeah i'm with you. i agree that his business model (method?) is kind of messed up
Limited release hurts the craft beer industry. It pisses you all off against the breweries and the stores. This trend will kill off a huge chunk of the people hoping to make a living off of making beer.
Abre los ojos industry peeps
Hey did any of you assholes ever hear "life isn't fair"? Why should beer releases be?
Or 1 ticket for every $10 worth of beer you buy.
I think if you are a store owner, it's just good business to skim a few bottles off the top to hold for your VERY best customers. For example, my pops has a shop he probably spends $200-$300 or more every month in, gives the guy bottles he hasn't tried or hasn't heard of, etc. I think you always want to make sure you are effectively managing relationships like that as a biz owner of any kind . With that said, I think it's equally wise to put at least some allotment on the floor be it through lottery or just first come first serve.
I think it really is a combo of all (save for the lottery one), mostly revolving around first come/first serve. I think first come first serve, but that is counting a waitlist. For example, if I put myself on a list this past Friday for KBS, I am ahead of those who come in April first to get some, even if I am working April 1st and cannot physically get there until later. Most places I know put a limit on it, though. Some places it is 1 bottle per person, some it is a 4 pack. Either way, no one can come in and buy them out, and people who know they may not get there to buy some before they sell out (or people who can get there right at opening but are just paranoid about missing out) can swing in a couple weeks in advance and put themselves on a waiting list. I do know of a couple local stores that are giving loyal customers (and that doesn't mean those that spend the most, it means those that frequently shop there whether they buy 1 case a trip or 10) a little loser limitation on it, so to speak. But the shops I know are still limiting the amount to two 4 packs max, and they aren't 'hoarding' any away for the loyal customers. They have to either show up or get on the waitlist to buy just like everyone else.
In a nutshell, the shop you're referring to sounds like a doucheshop.
Beer stores aren't your friend.They exist to make money. Don't confuse the standards you apply!
If anything the store owner may have been too honest,on the other hand,if he told you something else or hid it from you and you found out later;I suspect you'd be even more pissed!
Life can't be made fair. Beer releases can be.
Hide individual bottles around town and sell clues for a dollar.
I had the same thing happen. I was 23rd in line at my local bottle shop for the BBC (Budweiser Black Crown) release and then they announced that the beer would be given out by lottery with a 4 case limit. It went from a friendly gathering of guys who love BBC to Wrestlemania VII, I tell you! I had waited 6 hours and now some schmuck who just sauntered in looking for a non-super-premium lager like CLITC (Coors Light in the can) would have the same chance as me for a load of BBC. A guy who likes it in the can, mind you! Well, I will not be going back there for my super-premium bottled lager needs anytime soon.
I have a better idea. Bear with me here. But shops could do a scratch-off type lottery system. We will trust that the bottle shops will donate all proceeds to charity. Im quite certain this would make everyone perfectly content.
IMO....very well said
The store near me did exactly this last year with part of their KBS allocation. They threw up a bottle a day for the first 2 weeks or so at a random time, so a random person could get it. They then put up the rest behind the counter with a 1 per person per day limit. I got a bottle from them each way. I thought it was funny because the KBS behind the counter lasted a few days before it sold out, where I'm sure had it been out there on release day it would have all been sold immediately.
First come, first serve one 4-pack limit. Get it the hell out of my store as fast as possible so I am the furthest I can be from having to deal with this nightmare again.
And how many threads show up because a store "lies" and says he does not have/is not getting a particular beer?
Pick a smaller store. The size of the store probably impacts the release method as well.
never said it would stop people from buying it ,just suggested it would make life easier for the stores that have to deal with the hoarders and bottle strokers because in their minds they are the only ones the stores should sell to.
Supply/demand works with non-commodities. There is a reason rare art is often sold at auction. It not being a commodity makes it very difficult to price. The "fairest" way to price it then is to auction it off.
Auctions work BETTER for rare items than for commodities. For commodities, auctions are cumbersome, better to just set a price and adjust it as supply/demand changes over time.
I suggested it. A 2nd item auction is probably better though.
Lets say you get 24 to sell. Everyone submits bids, the highest 24 bids get to buy it at the 24th highest bid price.
The keg of KBS that got to a local bar near me sold out in something like 12 minutes.
How much were they charging for Keg Stands?
Its beer. Who really cares.No one is entitled. If you get a beer then good. If not oh well. I run across somethings that are hard to get. I buy some and not others. My pockets are not huge. The WF I go to keeps limited beers at the counter and you can buy one. I have seen many tough to get beers and most I pass on as they are too much money. Whatever shops do someone will think its not fair. If you do not get a beer then you think the way it was sold is not fair, if you got one then its fair?
Do you really think shop owners have time or want to do lottery, punch cards ,auctions etc?
Craft beer is all about friends and contacts. Get what you can get, and share what you have. It'll work itself out. It's just beer anyways (really good beer, but nonetheless).
A store is going to do what a store is going to do...they each have different approaches...evaluate the stores near you and develop a rapport...it often works out just fine but avoid the gouging store owners...KBS is not worth sacrificing your self respect for...I realize this is easy for me to say about KBS living in Michigan however Im a big fan of breweries taking care of their own first...the hype train for any of these beers we chase after is gettin old...