Talking SMaSH

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by AlCaponeJunior, Jan 28, 2013.

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  1. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    probably most anything, homebrew or domestic :grinning:
  2. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    Well just an update:

    The bravo/munich didn't get made. We got a late start and didn't want to push it into the late evening. Perhaps tomorrow it will get brewed. Soon we'll have the new "man-cave/brewhouse/super-deck" completed. Then night brewing will be more appealing, as we'll have lots of lighting!

    Two batches got bottled tho!

    I'm going to order the grain for SgtStogie's carmelized 2-row/fuggles idea. It's either next or the one after that.
    sergeantstogie likes this.
  3. axeman9182

    axeman9182 Initiate (0) Aug 5, 2009 New Jersey
    Beer Trader

    I did a MO/Citra Pale Ale last spring that turned out pretty well last spring.

    10lbs MO

    .25oz Citra FWH
    .75oz Citra @ 15 minutes
    .75oz Citra @ 10 minutes
    1.25oz Citra @ flameout
    1oz Citra dryhop

    Wyeast 1272 American Ale II

    Using this as the starting point so I can work this in towards a house pale ale recipe. Just kegged iteration #2, I backed off the Citra a little bit and layered in some Willamette hops.
  4. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    My first SMaSH (and first AG) was a maris otter/willamette with 11 lbs maris otter. It wasn't quite hoppy enough (bitterness level was OK but taste wise it was almost all malt). Some citra would have been nice in that one.
  5. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    UPDATE: Just popped a bottle of Bravo/Munich SMaSH. The aroma is wonderful! It's kinda red and just slightly hazy (possible chill haze?) but mostly pretty clear. Taste is a good balance of hops and plenty of malt character. It's got bite, but it's not at all over the top. It's a very tasty pale ale. I'm really liking the bravo hops.

    I think for future smash recipes I'd use the bravo again. I'd probably choose a different grain than munich tho. Whist tasty I think I'd like to keep trying smash brews with other malts. Munich is a bit grainier than would be perfect for this brew. Actually, about half munich and half 2-row would have probably been perfect with the bravo. But this is why we brew smash beers, to learn about malts and hops, and overall I'm very happy with the results. This one won't last long.
  6. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    Well I finally tried new albion, liked it. Very simple, could easily be a smash. I personally would hop it more but the simplicity and easy drinking were appealing.
    herrburgess likes this.
  7. MrOH

    MrOH Defender (633) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    What kinds of flavors did you get from the bravo?
  8. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    Definitely spicy big time, a little peppery too. Herbal, some. I have read that there are a lot of fruity flavors from bravo, but I wouldn't call this beer heavily fruity by any means. Lightly fruity. Quite a bit of bitter citrus, nothing like orange juice but more like grapefruit rinds from one of those really yellow, bitter grapefruits (not the fairly sweet ruby reds). Possibly some lemon and lemon rinds too.

    There is some chance that the munich might be affecting my sensory perceptions on this, and of course I'm not a master BJCP judge or anything like that, so I'm not perfect at detecting flavors. However, I think this description should be helpful.

    The main point is that I will certainly use them again, especially as aroma/dry hops additions. Bittering wise I am sure they work just fine too, with their high AA%, but I think the dry hopping is my fav on this beer. The aroma is really nice, I can't stop sniffing the glass! I would drink several more right now, but I have to leave for my metal band's practice soon. :sunglasses:

    This beer is fairly bitter, but it was scheduled to be that way (45 IBUs or so). I am not surprised that the "perceived bitterness" is high either, as there was quite a lot of bravo in this beer. I drank a commercial IPA yesterday that doesn't seem as bitter but has a higher IBU.
  9. MrOH

    MrOH Defender (633) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    Sounds good. Everybody is enthralled by the super-fruity hops nowadays, its cool to come across some different flavors/aromas.

    I'm gonna be brewing a Golden Promise/Pacific Jade SMaSH APA soon, as well.
  10. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Meyvn (1,026) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    I'm thinking a munich smash would go well with maybe saaz, mt hood, something a little more noble, or maybe something spicy and earthy like fuggles.
  11. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Initiate (0) Mar 22, 2011 California

    Sounds tasty. I think that is one of the most unique hops I've ever had. Very peppery, but citrus rind heavy as well.
  12. MrOH

    MrOH Defender (633) Jul 5, 2010 Maryland

    I'd been meaning to get some for a while, especially since I've enjoyed other NZ hops so much. Picked up 8oz from Farmhouse when I got my Centennial, Amarillo, and Simcoe this year. Never had a beer using them to my knowledge, either, so I figure that SMaSH would be the way to go. 4oz in the SMaSH, then I plan on using the rest in a Belgian IPA and an American IPA.
  13. firstthenlast

    firstthenlast Initiate (0) Nov 25, 2013 Massachusetts

    A friend of mine and I are interested in a smash recipe. I found this thread and just wanted to try and start it up again. We were thinking about doing a saison with WYeast 3711, 1060 OG with Pilsner and a noble/noble-like hop. We also tossed the idea around of doing vienna or munich, but are strongly leaning towards pilsner. We planned on aiming to collect 7 GA of wort, and making 5GA of saison and making a lager out of the remaining 2 GA. We thought a saison style beer was a great candidate for a smash recipe because of it history of being a simple beer made by farmers with what they had available. We were a wee bit concerned that simply using pilsner as a malt would make a "bland" beer. Ultimately we do not want to sacrfice the quality of the beer to simply say we made a smash so we thought about adding some wheat malt in there. What do y'all think?
  14. VikeMan

    VikeMan Meyvn (1,351) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    I think a 100% pilsner malt/3711 yeast/noble hopped SMaSH could be excellent.

    p.s.- Wheat would be fine, but I'd be inclined to try it the simpler way first.
  15. sjverla

    sjverla Devotee (490) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    Well since this thread has been resurrected, I can chime in on this. I made a Munich/Glacier smash that turned out fantastic. It's not terribly heavily hopped but quite well balanced. I get a mild tea-like quality from the hops which blends very well with the Munich. I fermented on US-05. I'm tempted to open on now to provide a more substantive and descriptive opinion, but I have none in the fridge. I'll put a couple in now and maybe circle back at the end of the workday. At any rate, it's a solid combination.
  16. Seacoastbrewer

    Seacoastbrewer Aspirant (211) Jun 5, 2012 New Hampshire

    I think 3711 can produce a characterful beer with pilsner malt and noble hops. This would be a beer where the yeast shines. To encourage that, I would ferment it very warm, 75-80degF.

    My co-brewer and I made a saison with 3711 this past fall but used 3-4 oz of Apollo hops and with 2 row as the base. The flavor combination of such an overpowering hop and the 3711 was not pleasant for either of us.
  17. od_sf

    od_sf Aspirant (265) Nov 2, 2010 California

    Saison Dupont is 100% pilsner malt. I've done a few SMaSH brews with just pilsner malt, a noble hop (usually either Styrian Goldings or Hallertau) and either 3724 or 3711, and I love them. Go for it!
  18. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    This thread was resurrected because I thought it was better to post this conversation here. Essentially, here's my answer to the newly posed question:

    the jist of the saison smash was that it was either odd notion's or MrOH's idea (someone take credit, it wasn't my idea and my memory is fuzzy on that one!), and they said cool ferment it. Not a problem, I keep the fermentation freezer at 64F anyway, so all I had to do was "nothing." 3711 is a beast even at the lower temperature I used. I think it might ferment with a little less of the yeasty saison type flavors, but that is speculation (it still. tasted plenty "saisony"). I might try it at higher temps, but I've already tried 3711 at higher temps (different recipe) and IMO it shines at 64 and at 75.

    I didn't use much hops in that either. Came out great. 3711 could make great beer out of water and an old boot, probably. :rolling_eyes:

    I just re-made a very similar recipe, but with more hops this time (willamette tho, these are pretty weak hops, even tho I really like willamette). Also I used T-58 this time cuz I was too lazy to make a starter and didn't have any 3711. So far T-58 has done me right, but this will be a pretty direct comparison to 3711 (save the hops difference, but it probably won't matter that much).

    You really can't go wrong with the "petite saison smash" done at 64F. Petite probably referred to OG, which was 1.060. Pilsner malt, some sort of weak hop (fuggles, willamette, noble hops, just not super-galena, citra, mosaic etc, that would be making a different beer, which might be good, but wouldn't be the same as petite saison smash).

    all my beers from day 1 are on my blog it's easier to google "beer and stuff saison smash" than trying to use the tags on wordpress, lol. I search for my own blog using google. :rolling_eyes:

    IMO the best smash malt is golden promise. I really like munich too tho for smash beers. ANY malt can make a damn fine smash tho, it depends on the yeast and hops, plus obviously the fundamentals.

    In general smash beers really are about learning about individual malts and hops. Sometimes they totally kick ass tho, in which case you brew them again! Even the so-so ones are still tasty beer.
  19. sjverla

    sjverla Devotee (490) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    OK, so I'm sitting here with one now (Munich/Glacier/US-05). The aroma is fruity - blueberry preserves, faint citrus (lemon) and just a very slight hint of fresh cut lawn. It's fairly grainy too, but not in a solvent way - more like whole grain bread.

    The taste is very balanced like I said before. Malty and bready and fairly sweet with some black and green tea notes. It finishes with a palate-cleansing bitterness that doesn't linger too long and isn't too drying. I actually bittered with .5 ounce of Warrior so it's not truly a smash (sorry Al), but it's close enough for Drewbage and it's close enough for me.

    I only used 4 ounces of Glacier. Not a ton, but not exactly modest either.

    So there's that. Do whatever you want with it.
  20. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    Well, we all have faults, but there's always "plausible deniability" if you get caught*. :rolling_eyes:

    I see there are now more data points for the ol' "munich malt makes good smash beers" hypothesis. :grinning:

    *definitely keep the ol' "my account got hacked" option, i.e. "the weiner option" in mind. :rolling_eyes:
  21. sjverla

    sjverla Devotee (490) Dec 1, 2008 Massachusetts

    Ha. My only fault is that instead of spending another 5 bucks on Glacier (at least for this beer) I wanted to spend the money on some newfangled Aussie variety called Summer that will also be going into a smash (+ Warrior because it's only 5.8%AA (this time you get the 'sorry, not sorry')) come late spring.

    Description says it's got notes of melon and apricot. I'm thinking a split batch with pilsner malt; half with 05, half 3711.
  22. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Initiate (0) May 21, 2010 Texas

    I don't think you can go wrong with those options.

    I needta make a smash with super-galena. I have never tried them, and I have an unopened bag that I shall soon open.
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