News The Challenges Facing Craft Beer

Discussion in 'Beer News & Releases' started by Todd, Apr 11, 2013.

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  1. Danielbt

    Danielbt Initiate (0) May 4, 2012 Texas

    Wine is legal in SC, yes? You're flailing at the wrong party here, going on about high gravity beer. Your lege is stupid, or corrupt.

    So is mine, so don't feel too bad.
    cavedave likes this.
  2. justyouraveragebeerguy

    justyouraveragebeerguy Initiate (0) Feb 5, 2013 Illinois

    The d-baggery/smugness is a problem but you guys do a great job of monitoring and we are thankful! I'm sending you guys a box of beer to that p.o. box.

    I just think its funny how people that jumped on the bandwagon in 2009 act like they know everything and have been there all along. I openly admit that I am still new to the craft brewing scene and still have a lot to learn. I respect those that have really been them all along. I remember seeing an interview with Dr Bill and he was saying beeradvocate has been around since the 90's! That's crazy! Just wanted to let you guys know we appreciate all your groundbreaking work. I can't even imagine what it would be like if I couldn't even get any stone, dogfish head, or Sierra Nevada.
  3. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,016) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    Again, not pointing out their stupidity as much as pointing out how some things about craft fuel the fire of their stupidity.
  4. JGam115

    JGam115 Disciple (354) Apr 8, 2013 New York
    Beer Trader

    If AB 100% owns it, but most of the original brew team is still Goose Island, the ingredients and contracts are still with Goose Island, the recipe is the original from Goose Island, and the equipment being used for BCBS beers are Goose Island, can you really say AB makes it? The 312 Wheat, Honkers, Mild Winter, etc are AB through and through though.
  5. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    Yes. Its easy. 100% ownership means everything Goose Island does is being done by ABI too. That doesnt stop me from drinking a Matilda or whatever if I want to (Im not a stout fan, so dont care about BCBS).
  6. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    Fuels the fire or shines a bright light on?

    I dont want to read too much into your post if you dont mean this, but you seem to be saying that craft should restrain themselves to avoid the legislature acting like the idiots they are. And that is BS.
  7. JGam115

    JGam115 Disciple (354) Apr 8, 2013 New York
    Beer Trader

    Legally it's 100% owned. In reality, BCBS is not an ABI beer. My point was the smugness of the store owner. All it means is more BCBS for me since it's "not craft" :slight_smile:
  8. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,016) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    You tell me. The brewers association ended up "restraining themselves" as far as the ABV cap and serving sizes go. Read about it here: and call BS on them if you want a ready-made target.

    What I was saying is that a "balanced" approach to the challenges raised by the bill and the legislature might have been wiser. Say, adding something about breweries agreeing to brew and offer session beers <4% ABV in addition to the 14% ones. Hell, we could have even marketed SC as the craft brew "Sessionist State." But no; because, as we as enlightened "beer advocates" all know, bigger is always better....
  9. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    Political compromise isnt "restraint" as I meant it. They asked for everything, as they should, and then compromised to what they could get. You wanted them to pre-restrain themselves to avoid having to compromise in the first place, and that is BS. Be open and honest about what you want, then take what you can get.

    Just because you dont like big beers (I rarely drink them too, but that is beside the point as far as Im concerned), you think other beer advocates shouldnt like them too. It looks to me like the final compromise is a huge move in the positive direction. And if they had taken your initial position, they would have gotten much less, it just would have happened quicker and without a fight.
  10. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,016) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    That's a whole lot of inferences ya got there! You yourself said that including any ABV cap at all was "already bending" to the legislature's demands, so I don't see how my suggestion that that perhaps adding a lower-end offering as "balance" (which is something I believe in) may have been wiser than putting the 14% front and center in the bill as it was originally drafted. In other words, perhaps they should have not only been "open and honest" about what they and their ilk want, but also about what the other 94% of the population wants.

    My favorite inference that you and so many others make is that if I advocate vocally for balanced and lower ABV beers, that I must somehow dislike big beers. All I ever say is that holding them up as the best is short-sighted at best and potentially damaging to U.S beer culture at worst. As for your final inference about how the legislature would have reacted to my suggestion(s), I happen to be friends with one SC legislator who has been advocating for craft brewing since the early 1990s, and he agreed that my ideas were good ones.
  11. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    To correct what I said then, you dont think big beers are the best. And you think other people who hold them up as the best is wrong, even though they think they are the best. If someone loves big beers, why should they lie about it?

    And looking at what the final bill is going to be, assuming it passes, it looks like it is better than your suggestion. A 12.5% cap at the brewery isnt ideal, but I cant imagine that many beers at all will be affected by that.
  12. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    4% is less than 14% so session beers are already "front and center". Unless you plan on mandating that brewers make session beers, I dont see how mentioning it does anything.

    Im not much for non-binding flowery-clause bullshit in laws. All laws should be written in lojban. :slight_smile:
  13. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,016) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    To clarify (hopefully) once and for all: I think some big beers are among the best in the world; but to hold so many of them up as the best to the exclusion of so many perfectly crafted smaller beers is, yes, wrong.
  14. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,131) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    Well since less than 1% of craft beer drinkers and less than 2% of craft breweries do what you are worried about I'd say there isn't much of a problem. Unless one assumes vocal people on a beer forum speak for all. :-)
    rlcoffey likes this.
  15. Mebuzzard

    Mebuzzard Poo-Bah (3,458) May 19, 2005 Colorado

    Along the lines of too many SKUs / shelf space, distribution needs a look at. As in, Bud and Coors distribution monsters and the "deals" they propogate. More and more, at least in CO, these deals benefit the largest stores that have the buying power. For example, Big Store A can buy 150 cases of New Belgium at a much lower rate than Small Store B, and the shelf prices reflect this. Customers not living close to Big Store A lose out--or they can drive 20min. But also, Small Store B loses out on allocation since the Big Store A buys more product.

    New beer comes out? Guess who gets it. And guess who will still have it in 2 months sitting on a warm stack, quality control be damned. (Big Store A)
    Consumers, Small Store B, and the breweries suffer. And since Bud / Coors distribute most of these, they'll all for it. Fewer pallet drops, fewer competitors, damage craft beer's QC, and reinforce the snobbery of craft beer at smaller stores due to higher prices. It's becoming that not on Bud / Coors do this either. Distributors of all sizes are following suit. Fewer drops, fewer shops, just move the product---who cares if it sits for months? Go out of date -- deal with it. :grimacing:

  16. herrburgess

    herrburgess Meyvn (1,016) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Industry Beer Trader

    If I may infer from what you're saying that my voice carries as little weight as the Top Beers list, I'm good with that. :wink:
  17. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,131) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    I think the inference I'd prefer you take is that some of us attend to and listen closely to your voice a lot of the time, but that you tend to suffer from what is known as the "confirmation bias" when it comes to some issues. :slight_smile:

    Have a nice day!
  18. YaloMac

    YaloMac Initiate (0) May 6, 2013 Mississippi

    Really interesting discussion guys. We are opening a brewery soon which will be the only one for over 100 miles. It seems that some of the discussion has been about the craft industry hitting a bubble. Craft represents such a small percentage of sales overall that I think that bubble might be a little further away. We have seen a complete open-arms approach by EVERY brewery we have toured, traded or talked with about pretty much every aspect of our and there business. It is refreshing to walk into an industry with such enthusiasm for the craft.
    I do agree that many craft or even corner stores with craft sales have a huge selection of unfamiliar or new and trying labels with the usual strong holds beside them, but this is part of the culture, isn't it? You never know how a label will sell until you release it to the craft community. Small start-ups are just that, small, until they find their staple labels and then take off.
    For us, the goal is to make a citra IPA and a stout and to make them the best available. I know that's a tall order, but we have some great guys on our team. Later, we might introduce seasonals but only after we are certain of the longevity and quality of our staples. At first, I guess there would be no way for us to not be just another label. Hopefully with quality product we might be a regular and even prefered craft beer for all of you guys.
  19. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,131) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    A bit of food for thought. Victory brewing in SE PA has had an IPA as one of their flagship brews since their earliest days that was also their best selling beer for years. A couple of years ago they brought out an APA that has been so popular that it sells as well as or better than that IPA. Another local, Yards, has an APA they re-formulated about five years ago that is now the best selling beer in their lineup. From where I sit I see more good IPAs available than I see good APAs available. Maybe an APA would suit your market better as both a staple in folks fridges and as an intro to your brewery.
    JackHorzempa likes this.
  20. YaloMac

    YaloMac Initiate (0) May 6, 2013 Mississippi

    The citra IPA is something we have been working on for a while and are very pleased with in general. The stout is a great second that we are experimenting with right now and working on as a milk stout. I think an APA might be a great addition, but it's just not something we have worked with a lot. In our area, we are hoping to provide a great IPA, which seems to be lacking. We will explore the APA. Thanks for the thought.
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