The current state of the Horse Brass Pub

Discussion in 'Northwest' started by John_M, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. ElijahSF

    ElijahSF Aspirant (242) Aug 30, 2013 California
    Beer Trader

    I believe his original comment was focused on the amount of whining that takes places in this particular forum and he's correct, there's a lot of it. Well that and some sprinkles of pretentiousness beer snob attitude who's city and quality of life is far superior to that of anyone else living in the country. I really just can't believe you don't understand that's how you're coming off.
     
  2. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (5,177) Sep 24, 2007 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Again, coming from you, a complement. If we suck so bad up here, why do you spend so much time on our forum? Why do you make so many trips up here? If we are so far beneath your contempt, why do you pay attention us?

    I've only been out here 18 years, so I'm still considered "new" in these parts. My native East-Coastedness has yet to totally erode. The natives are much more polite than I, and seem more likely to follow their Moms advice of "if you can't say something nice..." You and I have this in common; we seem unafraid of looking someone else in the eye and telling them they're an asshole.

    Let me know next time you come to Seattle, I'll come down and buy ya a couple pints, and we can tell each other to fuck off in person.
     
  3. Reidrover

    Reidrover Poo-Bah (2,848) Jan 14, 2003 Oregon

    Kind of got a bit heated in here fast !
    Sadly though it appears the PNW is going the way of the rest of the nation. Like it or not craft beer is now a luxury item rather than a treat everyone could enjoy (up here).
    The popularity of it and this region has indeed killed the golden goose.
    I am lucky in Salem I can still get $5 imperial pints..but that will not last lo ng.
    I think the coming shake out of the industry will make the
    Is worse for a while..then the next big economic downturn will level most that's left.
    Pessimistic about a movement..yes a movement..not just a thing to buy..one I love
     
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  4. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Moderator (1,279) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    I really hate to agree with this... what started as a movement to put flavorful beer into the hands of the many is becoming a shit show of non-beer flavored beer pricing itself out of the hands of the many. I hope the bubble bursts and gets us back to locally brewed outstanding beer flavored beers for $5/pint. I want to see the average Joe sitting down at his local brewery taproom, order a couple full 16oz pints of balanced well made beers, with proper head, no off flavors, no gimmicks, and tip the server well.
     
  5. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (5,177) Sep 24, 2007 Washington
    Beer Trader

    To quote from the movie The Right Stuff: Fucking A Bubba!
     
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  6. John_M

    John_M Moderator (6,071) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    If this comment came from anyone else other than you, I would be surprised and would be wondering if the poster was being intentionally disingenuous. However, you have so little self awareness, and such a complete inability to see anyone's point of view other than your own, I'm not at all surprised by your question.

    Suffice it to say, there is no explanation I could possibly provide you that would allow you to see why RPK1967's comment (which came completely out of the blue, was completely gratuitous, served no benefit, and was clearly aimed at antagonizing people and just pissing them off) would qualify as an attempt to just stir shit up.
     
    #46 John_M, Jul 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  7. derftron

    derftron Disciple (361) Feb 8, 2012 Oregon

    the thing is, there wasnt any whining going on. It was a discussion about a drastic price change at one of the best know bars in the city/state/(world?) and what could be the reason. This led to a discussion about prices changes as a whole within the city, and some of us (me) chiming in that there is still a ton of places with lower and more competitive prices, so paying $7.50/$8/$9 for an IPA doesnt make a whole lot of sense given the landscape.

    and then, for no real reason some guy from VA chimes in that we are "ungrateful" or "whining", and basically trying to stir up shit, when there was no reason to.

    and then, almost as if a magic spell was cast to conjure up a message board golum anytime dbaggery begins to occur, you pop in with regional pissing contest content and unwanted opinions about the Portland beer scene
     
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  8. ElijahSF

    ElijahSF Aspirant (242) Aug 30, 2013 California
    Beer Trader

    "I was actually wondering if this thread would get a visit from that helpful gent from SF who has such vast knowledge and keen insights about the Portland beer scene. I had to go check to see if I'd set his profile to "Ignore.""

    "and then, almost as if a magic spell was cast to conjure up a message board golum anytime dbaggery begins to occur, you pop in with regional pissing contest content and unwanted opinions about the Portland beer scene"

    Check every interaction I've had with people on this site and you'll see the only people I've ever had a problem with are a handful in the PNW forum.
     
  9. sharpski

    sharpski Champion (866) Oct 11, 2010 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    I'm not going to waste time checking out your every interaction, so I'll just concede the point. That doesn't absolve you of acting like a troll, it just means you only act like a troll in the NW forum. So, uh, thanks for that.
     
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  10. ElijahSF

    ElijahSF Aspirant (242) Aug 30, 2013 California
    Beer Trader

    I've already explained why in this thread and I haven't been trolling.
     
  11. jbakajust1

    jbakajust1 Moderator (1,279) Aug 25, 2009 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    So what is on tap right now at the Horse Brass?
     
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  12. John_M

    John_M Moderator (6,071) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    I think that's actually debatable.

    I checked over your interactions since early January. As one would expect, most of your posts are in the Pacific forum. However, you also had 3 posts in the Midwest (for a Toppling Goliath release), 3 posts in the South Atlantic (another release), and then I think one in the South (for yet another release). In each case your comments and questions were confined to things like can and bottle counts, release prices and so on. You were polite and non judgmental, and your questions and comments elicited nothing but polite responses.

    Here in the NW I counted some 41 or 42 responses from you, and a sampling of your comments included statements about how pretentious members are in the NW, how unsophisticated we are (about pricing), and how we clearly don't appreciate and/or understand great beer (Great Notion and Modern Times, for example).

    I've said this more than once @ElijahSF, but you should really take a good look at yourself. If you made the sort of comments you've made in this regional forum in any other regional forum, I can pretty much guarantee that you'd have very similar "problems" with members in those forums.

    I'll throw out one last observation for you to mull over. In pretty much every regional forum I've visited, with very few exceptions, most members in the region are convinced the brewers in their part of the world are making the very best beer on earth. They're proud of the beer being made in their region, and they tend to frequently boast about. Personally, I call that completely normal, and certainly nothing to chastise someone about (regardless of whether or not I happen to agree with their opinion). Yet as far as I can tell, the only region you've deigned to visit with your condemnation of this practice is here in the NW. My recommendation is that you post similar comments in other regional forums and see how that plays out. I'm pretty certain that before you know it, the NW forum won't be the only place where you have problems with a handful of members there.
     
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  13. John_M

    John_M Moderator (6,071) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    They actually have an online taplist that they update once a week. As today is Wednesday, it's likely still fairly up to date. By Saturday, probably anywhere between 10 or 15 of the beers on tap will have blown, and so the online taplist will be a lot less reliable.

    For popular things like PtE and Blue Dot, one should always call in advance to make sure the beer is still on tap before heading over (no matter what it says on the online taplist).
     
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  14. Strangestbrewer

    Strangestbrewer Initiate (181) Oct 17, 2014 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    I mean, every time I see you here you've come over to seemingly stir shit, not to have an actual conversation so :rolling_eyes:
     
  15. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (5,177) Sep 24, 2007 Washington
    Beer Trader

    has Blue Dot regained any of its former luster? A few years ago, it would show up around here once in a while, and when fresh it was one of the best IPAs I've had. Seems like it's slipped some. Would love to see it return to previous form.
     
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  16. distantmantra

    distantmantra Meyvn (1,053) May 23, 2011 Washington
    Beer Trader

    These prices are what we’ve had in Seattle for a long time now. I’ve always been shocked at how much cheaper Portland and Bend are in comparison. I guess all good things... you know...

    On a related note, I've talked to a couple brewers from Oregon and their biggest complaint about Portland is that "everyone is super cheap and complains about pricing more than anywhere else."
     
  17. John_M

    John_M Moderator (6,071) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Not really. There continues to be a lot of variation from batch to batch it appears. HOTD is now making a TIPA called green dot that I believe they're going to bottle and distribute (haven't seen it in distribution yet, but that's what I was told). Anyway, the last time I was at the tasting room I got a glass of Blue Dot to compare to the Green Dot. It was actually pretty decent, and I liked it better than the Green Dot. However, that's probably the first time I enjoyed a glass of Blue Dot in several years now. Some of the versions I've tried over the past few years have been nearly undrinkable.

    I used to order a glass of BD whenever I visited the tasting room, but it's been a number of years since I discontinued the practice. I still get a glass every once in a while for old times sake, but that's about it. The tasting room and the Horse Brass are pretty much the only places I ever see BD any more.
     
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  18. distantmantra

    distantmantra Meyvn (1,053) May 23, 2011 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Blue Dot used to be one of my favorite beers. It was a hazy IPA before hazy IPAs were a thing.

    Now it's just sad. And makes me sad.
     
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  19. RKP1967

    RKP1967 Aspirant (285) Sep 26, 2010 Virginia

    This is what I came here to say I the first place. I like to travel and when I travel I like to visit breweries. This leads me to visit other regional threads to get the inside scoop and I agree with John M that yes, people in various regions are very proud of their local beers. And many think their own local beers are the best on earth. And typically, the don't whine about having to pay a premium for great local beer. Except for maybe a few in this forum!
     
  20. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (5,177) Sep 24, 2007 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Yeah, your enthusiasm for BD was what made it a must buy the first time I saw it. IIRC, I bought 2 22s without having tried it before. Happy that I did.
     
  21. John_M

    John_M Moderator (6,071) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    Sad doesn't begin to cover my feelings about the current condition of Blue Dot.

    As this is sort of a Horse Brass thread, I'll reminisce a bit. Once upon a time, the HB would only get a keg from time to time, and when that happened I would immediately look into leaving work early so I could make it down in time before the keg blew. This was back in 2005 and 2006 I think, and obviously the beer landscape in PDX was completely different then. Yet BD was so popular back then, it was no surprise to see the keg blow in an hour or two after tapping (more than once I got down there too late to get a glass). When I got a job transfer back east and drove back to Baltimore, I stopped by the old HOTD brewery first, where Alan Sprints himself poured me a growler ($10) of blue dot. It lasted as far as Omaha.

    Trips back to PDX always included a stop at the HB before I did anything else after my flight arrived. I can still remember sitting down with a pint after not having any for so many months, sticking my beak in the glass and inhaling that incredible aroma of pineapple and orange citrus. It would always send shivers down my spine (and splash a huge grin around my face).

    So yeah... it would be fair to say I'm not entirely happy about the current state of Blue Dot.
     
    #61 John_M, Jul 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  22. John_M

    John_M Moderator (6,071) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    You obviously haven't been reading some of the old posts from @ElijahSF. He was always giving us a ration of shit for bragging about how good we have things here, and how lucky we were because prices were so reasonable. If you read his original post in this thread, you'll notice he's chortling now over the fact that prices have been going up of late, and how happy he seems to be that this is making a lot of us in the NW unhappy. In other words, his criticisms weren't directed at this forum because we were complaining about high prices.

    As has been alluded to by others, prices are slowing starting to creep up all over town, a product of various factors (increased recipe costs, increases in housing and rent prices, etc.). This hasn't really come as a huge surprise to anyone here, despite the comment made by @ElijahSF. We get it that this is just part of life, especially in a city that has become increasingly crowded and expensive to live in. That being said...

    To understand why I started this thread you would have to know some of the history behind Don Younger and the Horse Brass. At least while he was alive, the Horse Brass was always a comfortable place to have a beer, and you knew a visit there wouldn't break the bank. There were other good reasons to visit as well (fairly authentic English food and one of the best tap lists in the city), but the very gentle pricing was certainly a bonus, and something you had to think didn't happen by accident. That stayed more or less the same even after Don's death. However, the recent across the board price increase seemed very out of character for the HB, and the pricing for Red Seal Ale, PtE and the pFriem so completely out of character that it smacked of someone taking over the Horse Brass who had no understanding of the local beer scene or the history of the Horse Brass. That was my concern... that maybe the HB was picked up by some unsophisticated, not very business savvy outsider who would do something stupid and maybe run the place into the ground.

    That being said, no one likes to see sudden, significant price increases in a favorite bar, especially when that bar has previously always had the reputation for very fair and reasonable prices. Calling attention to something like that isn't what I personally would call whining, but that's just my opinion, and I can see where reasonable minds might differ on that. :sunglasses:
     
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  23. RKP1967

    RKP1967 Aspirant (285) Sep 26, 2010 Virginia

    Do locals generally extend the sadness to all of the HOTD beers? I've been to Portland several times and have always considered HOTD a must stop, but after my last visit earlier this year, no longer consider it so. They seem to be standing still and being passed in the race.
     
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  24. John_M

    John_M Moderator (6,071) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    That's a really tough question to answer. I still go to the tasting room on occasion, as I like the people who work there and I can usually find something interesting to drink. If worse comes to worst, the vintage bottle beer selection usually has a few gems I can order.

    Most of the time, the "from the wood" offering is usually something I'll like. The recent new Jim blend was pretty tasty I thought, and on occasion they'll have Matt, AFTW, Cherry Fred and other interesting beers on tap. The core line-up... I think it's pretty "mehh" otherwise. Nothing is bad, and personally I still like Fred and Adam, but those beers aren't so wonderful that I'll make a special stop to drink them. The last Doggie Claw versions have been hit and miss, and I know the last Cherry Adam received mixed reviews.

    Place is still popular as all hell in the summer time, so I guess there are still plenty of people who think HOTD beer continues to be the "cat's meow."
     
  25. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (5,177) Sep 24, 2007 Washington
    Beer Trader

    A second, maybe third, hand story about Don Younger.

    One year at GABF, DY and a bunch of other NW folks went to Falling Rock. DY starts a tab, and tells his buddies "hey, I'll buy ya a beer, just put it on my tab". End of the night, Don pays up and leaves. Forgets his copy of the receipt on the bar. A guy who knows him grabs it, so he can give it back. Dude glances at the total, and is shocked.

    Next morning, dude runs into DY, and says hey you forgot this last night. By the way Don, how did you drop $800 at the bar? Don looks at him and says "I didn't come here to fucking spectate!"

    Gotta love a guy like that. I wish I had met him.
     
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  26. John_M

    John_M Moderator (6,071) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    I always loved his comment about breakfast. Apparently, he was prone to a "liquid" diet, and really didn't tend to eat much in the morning. I think someone asked him about bacon once, and asked how he could forego having bacon for breakfast in the morning (I'm probably mis-telling this story somewhat, but this is the gist). Anyway, he apparently shot back with a retort "the closest I ever come to bacon in the morning is a Blind Pig."

    Don and his cronies would usually "hold court" so to speak, over on the right side of the bar. They would sit over there smoking these disgusting stogies all night long, drinking beer after beer after beer (Don was a session ale kind of guy, and over the years had also built up a bit of, ahem, a tolerance). I liked Don, but sometimes the aroma in the Horse Brass was a bit more than I could take. One time it got so bad I couldn't take it any more, and I walked out. I was pretty pissed, and I sent him an email expressing my disgust (suggesting that if he and his buds were going to smoke that shit, could they maybe at least open the doors and window). Much to my surprise, I got a response from him. He expressed his concern and sympathy, noted that he and his then wife/GF/partner had discussed the current policy, but that as it was his bar, he was going to do whatever the fuck he wanted in his bar! Sigh.... I think I boycotted the place for a couple of days and then threw in the towel and started going back again.
     
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  27. NWer

    NWer Crusader (733) Mar 10, 2009 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Adam and Cherry Adam are solid. I also tend to like whatever they have on tap from the wood. I can do without their stone egg though. It's run its course. I gave up on blue dot long ago. Sad.
     
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  28. OffTrail

    OffTrail Initiate (138) Aug 12, 2012 Washington

    Speaking of regional disparities, I moved out here four years ago from Boston. I was immediately struck by how much less it cost here to go out and have a beer. That's without considering happy hours, which are illegal in Massachusetts.

    That gap still exists, though it may be narrowing. It still feels very pleasant.

    So do cheer up.
     
  29. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (5,177) Sep 24, 2007 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Perspective is a real thing. Thanks for providing some.
     
  30. derftron

    derftron Disciple (361) Feb 8, 2012 Oregon

    This is probably an accurate view. However, Alan still knocks it out of the park from time to time. 2013 MATT still remains a gold standard BA beer IMO. Some of the old Adam from the Woods are still amazing. Pannapoch is awesome, and is Flanders Fred. Fred and Adam are both beers that I would order anywhere in the world. Some of the light beers he makes (Lila, Ruth , beerweek, etc.) are super solid.

    Current problem is that he doesn’t make a standout IPA, or even a serviceable IPA. The Green Dot is good, but very intense. IMO, Alan would be smart to make a 6-7% IPA that is dependable
     
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  31. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (5,177) Sep 24, 2007 Washington
    Beer Trader

    On my phone, so apologies on the bad quote. What do you mean by "too intense"? Shouldn't a " Triple IPA", by definition, be intense? Not busting on you, and this probably a verbiage thing, just looking for clarification.
     
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  32. Reidrover

    Reidrover Poo-Bah (2,848) Jan 14, 2003 Oregon

    I was brought up in Scottish workingmans pubs..never smoked myself but the stink never bothered me..same with the old HB
     
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  33. distantmantra

    distantmantra Meyvn (1,053) May 23, 2011 Washington
    Beer Trader

    HotD doesn't believe in reasonable ABV beers. Aside from the Little Dog beers being on tap, they don't really have good options if you're just looking for an easy beer with food.
     
  34. cavemanlawyer

    cavemanlawyer Initiate (172) Dec 7, 2010 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    What a shining example of beer advocacy. If only there were a moderator here to prevent ill-informed posts that deteriorate into insults, mud-slinging, and off-topic rants.
     
  35. RKP1967

    RKP1967 Aspirant (285) Sep 26, 2010 Virginia

    There are three or four white collar African-American guys at my gym who fiercely trash talk each other every day in the locker room. Yet, they're still great friends. It's just what guys do. Or at least some guys do.
     
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  36. John_M

    John_M Moderator (6,071) Oct 25, 2003 Oregon
    Premium Member Beer Trader

    It's funny. For every person on BA who complains about all the bad language, disparaging comments and mud slinging that goes on, there's at least one other member complaining about the "nanny state" level of moderation on this site.

    Todd recently removed our ability to hit members with warnings and penalty points (we just delete inappropriate posts now), and increasingly he's sided with a "let's not sweat the small stuff" approach. So I think it's pretty clear what sort of direction he wants to see the site headed.

    That being said, I/we still do see some pretty horrific stuff on the site from time to time, so I think Todd will likely reenact some sort of warning/penalty system at some point. Nothing I've ever seen in the NW forum has ever come even remotely close to some of the truly unbelievable, horrible stuff I've seen in some of the other forums.
     
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  37. sharpski

    sharpski Champion (866) Oct 11, 2010 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    Do you really have trouble understanding the difference between that scenario and this one? Maybe next time you're at the gym with those guys, you should call them greedy corporate tools and observe how they respond.
     
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  38. RKP1967

    RKP1967 Aspirant (285) Sep 26, 2010 Virginia

    They never boasted that they work for corporations with questionable ethics. In fact, they don't even work for corporations.
     
  39. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (5,177) Sep 24, 2007 Washington
    Beer Trader

    Just saw a FB post from yesterday, that Don Younger would have turned 77 yesterday. Happy Birthday DY!
     
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  40. derftron

    derftron Disciple (361) Feb 8, 2012 Oregon

    I didnt say "too intense", I said "its good, but very intense". just meaning that the only IPA offerings that HotD has are the ever inconsistent Blue Dot, and a hop-bomb Triple IPA. This isnt necessarily a bad thing, as I dont visit HotD if im in the mood for an IPA or a Kolsch, but I do think its something that has held them back within the current beer landscape where juicy/approachable IPAs seem to be all the rage