The How My Averagely Perfect American Stout Turned Out Thread

I've ordered the recipe. It shall be brewed this week.

 

Here are some judging notes from a recent competition that I entered this beer in...as well as my comments.

Aroma:

Judge1: Slammed in the nose with tropical fruit, papya? kiwi? Really lacking in any malt aroma.
Judge2: Strong tropical fruit aroma. New Zealand hops? Roasted malt aroma is lower than expected
Me: Interesting so much tropical aroma was noted, but I do agree that the hops dominate the aroma. Is it worth fixing? Could lower the aroma hopping or maybe do some late steeping of roasted malts? I'd probably start with the latter.​

Appearance:

Judge1: Dark brown with a tiny tan head if you force it, but doesn't last
Judge2: Light tan head with large bubbles dissipates to a ring around the glass. Dark, almost black.
Me: Beer was bottled from the keg, fairly young, could probably tighten up my bottling procedure as well. Currently from the keg this beer pours with a thick frothy head that lasts to the bottom.​

Flavor:

Judge1: That kiwi aroma carries over into the flavor which is really weird for the style but not unpleasant.
Judge2: The tropical fruit dominates the flavor. It's pleasant but not really the citrus/resin expected. Roast bitterness is evident as is hop bitterness.
Me: Maybe more Chinook and less Willamette next time to get more of the expected American hop profile? However, I like this profile so I probably would keep it the same. Maybe the Willamettes are very tropical this year, all hops used were 2013 crop.​

Mouthfeel:

Judge1: Medium bodied (too light for style) with medium low carbonation, light alcohol warmth
Judge2: Medium body. Some roast bitterness in finish. Medium carbonation.
Me: I disagree on the medium too light for style body. This thing is chewy IMO. I think they were either tired, or just had an example of an extremely full bodied beer. I would call this medium to full bodied.​

Overall Impression:

Judge1: As I look at the commercial examples I'm hard pressed to find anything remotely similar. I have a feeling this would have scored much higher as a 13D Foreign Extra Stout.
Judge2: The tropical fruit seems unusual for the style. This may score better as a tropical stout in the Foreign Extra Stout category. A good beer and pleasant to drink, but wrong style.
Me: I'm not sure if it would have done any better in the Foreign Extra Stout category. Tropical fruit flavors do not make a tropical stout. I can't think of a commercial example that tastes anything like this. But I guess it is a broader category.​

Both judges are experienced and BJCP recognized. There was not a single comment or check for any flaws (except for the carbonation level), so points were mostly style points. Judge1 gave it 27, and Judge2 a 31.
I still have about 1/2 corny of this left and it is holding up well. The hops are definitely subsiding but still dominate and delicious. It's a joy to drink and gets great reactions from the crowd, I'm glad I brewed this one.

 

Thanks for posting the judges notes. I can not imagine both judges getting so much tropical fruit (kiwi?) and so little malt aroma. Just reviewed the recipe again and there wasn't that much Willamette and pretty sure Chinook didn't add fruit aroma. I've used 2013 Willamette that was nothing like your results. Is it possible for a hop variety to be that measurably different from suppliers? Or could the tuity-fruity be from the yeast? Wyeast says to expect fruit and complex esters from 1084 . . . but "slammed in the nose" seems like a stretch.

 

I was surprised by the tropical fruit, but not by the other comments. Basically, how I thought the recipe would turn out. Granted other people have tried it, and came away with a different impression.

Thanks for posting the results.

 

I get the citrusy nose, mine has it. Tropical fruit mine is not. Plenty of roasty bitterness.

Mines not a hearty and heavy body though, medium body to it. I also ended up around 2-3 points higher FG than you did.

I will also say that I find the US05 version to taste better, IMO. Surprisingly enough, I've never done a stout with US05, and I think it's nice and clean and lets me play with grain and hops more. I get a slight fruity english character with the Irish ale, which is fine, but maybes thats what they are picking up on?

 

Thanks for posting the judges' comments. I wonder if the "tropical fruit" could be a fermentation temperature thing? Although both @Naugled and @VikeMan say they don't get that flavor.

I just put my keg of the 1084 version in the kegerator tonight (no room for the 1968 version), really looking forward to trying this.

 

Yeah, frikin hop heads got ahold of the recipe. Ridiculous. Al those late addition/flame out hops, in a stout?? Wtf??? Surprised they didn't vote to dry hop it...

 

Been away too long from the forums, dammit. Been looking for one to brew this weekend before I go for the Pliny the Younger clone. This may be it.

P.S. What no dry hopping?

 

It's not overly "hoppy", but tosses that citrusy hop note when you take a good smell from a fresh pull of the tap handle. A small dryhop of something earthy wouldn't have been too far out there, IMO.

 

I guess you've never brewed a russian imperial stout or drank a Surly Darkness... its hoppy as hell and delicious. Stouts can have hops, and if you look at the BJCP guidelines, you can see that for homebrewing competitions, american stouts are expected to be hoppy.

 

I love Old Raspy and Sam Smiths oatmeal stout, my favs... Based off what I just read about how this recipe turned out, this "stout" doesn't sound like its for me...

 

I agree this beer is nothing like Old Rasp or Smith's Oatmeal. The only beer I can recall that reminds me of this flavor profile was Goose Island's Night Stalker, which was a super hoppy RIS. This beer isn't as big, but the hop profile reminds me of Stalker.... I miss that beer.

 

Brewing it up this weekend.

 

So, I am finally drinking this beer. I have the 1084 in front of me. I also did 5 gallons with 1968 but I don't have room in the keezer right now.

I ended up with 11 gallons @ 1.070 split into two buckets, I never measure final gravity so I am not sure where it ended. Both fermented 64-66 degrees in my basement (no real fluctuations). I kegged after fermenting for 1 month and both kegs were then carbed and left in my garage for the last couple of weeks (temperature fluctuated between 30-60).

A: Very black with a thin light-tan head, a small amount of lace.
S: I am surprised how little the Chinook comes through, mostly just a hint of fruitiness (not even citrus) under the very distinct chocolate. Definitely no tropical fruits and not the black IPA I was afraid of.
T: The chocolate is most apparent with a hint of roastiness in the background. Again, the Chinook is very well hidden. There are some fruits mixed in, but I could easily blame that on yeast or dark caramel malts if I did not know better. No idea that oatmeal is there from a flavor point of view.
M: Slightly creamy, but not too "rich" or tongue coating, the carbonation helps this go down very easy. My guess is the mouthfeel is being driven by the oatmeal, there is a hint of slickness on the tongue.
O: I like this a lot, some what surprised because I was one of those who thought this had train-wreck written all over it. There is just enough sweetness along with hops that it is not a roast bomb, it goes down very easy, I will happily have a second one. All in all, a very good stout.

So, what would I change?
I would not bother toasting the oats and I might increase the amount of oats a little.
I would like a little more roast flavor so I would probably increase the roasted barley, but more likely would add some black patent.
I think the Willamette could/should probably be doubled or swapped for something a little more powerful. I would probably not change the Chinook at all.
The only other obvious thing to possibly change is the yeast. I am looking forward to the 1968 version and will try to remember to report back.

Thanks @VikeMan for herding all the opinionated cats in this project. I think this and the APA show that there is at least a little bit of wisdom in a crowd

 

Brewed it today. A little low on the OG (1.062). Raw tastes good.
Then the brewing debil took hold of me and I combined the second runnings with another light mash in (5 lbs 2-row and the remainder of my other ingredients - oats + a little black). 1.042 OG and a light Stout?

 

Brewed on March 1, kegged March 14.

Look:
Pours a deep black, looking at the edges of the glass it is clear, with deep garner highlights, though you can't see through it due to the darkness. Thick brown head stays throughout the whole drink leaving thick lacing all the way down. (3/3)

Aroma:
First thing to jump from the glass is a burst of Chinook hops, citrus, pine, and earthy Willamette hops. Quickly followed by chocolate malt and day old coffee, toffee, bit of toast. Nutty yeast, light esters. Hops are forward, but not dominant. Malt is complex and dark, just not as roasty as I would like. I am wondering if this is from using the higher roasted Crisp as it seems to have burned raisin notes more than coffee or roast. (8/12)

Taste:
First sip reveals nutty yeast and bread dough, followed by earthy hops, touch of citrus, toasty malt, toffee, coffee, bitter chocolate. Hops, malt, and yeast are all balanced. Hop forward for a stout which is good for style, but not forward enough to breach IPA range. Still slightly out of wack though, something no blending well. (11/20)

Mouthfeel:
Medium body, silky on the tongue, medium carbonation, balanced bitterness, it's higher, but not bracing. Finish is semi-dry, it is full and rich but the roasted grains and hops give a drier impression. (4/5)

Overall:
Early on this beer was out of balance, too much hops and the ones used were not meshing well. A month in the keg at cold temps has rounded all the flavors out some. The yeast, hops, and malts blend well with just enough of each. The toasting of the oats doesn't seem to add much except some toasty notes, which could be from the Munich too. Makes for a nice Spring beer, not sure it makes for the best one though. Something is slightly off, I think it is the Chinook as they are a little harsh here (odd since I love them in my IPAs), and possibly the choice of roast barley. (6/10)

(32/50)

 

We'll see what some BJCP judges think of this in a few weeks. Entering it into a local comp. I had really good feedback from the big dawgs in our Home Brew Club, including Denny Conn. Killed my keg to get the bottles to enter. Luckily I had 4 bottles so I have one left to compare to.