The How My Averagely Perfect NorthEast IPA Turned Out Thread

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by pweis909, Jul 30, 2016.

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  1. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,942) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    So, your fundamental objection here is appearance? You object to your 'NE' style IPA to no longer be hazy/murky/turbid/opaque?

    I have homebrewed just one batch of the so called 'NE' style IPA (a clone of Trillium Galaxy Fort Point) but my last bottle was about 2.5 months old (from bottling day). Those last beers were still hazy/murky/turbid/opaque but the hop aroma was very significantly faded and the hop flavor was still pretty good but notably diminished.

    FWIW I make it a point to consume all of my hoppy beers (IPA. DIPA,...) by the 3 month mark regardless of substyle to mitigate hop fade issues.

    Cheers!
     
  2. Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse

    Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse Initiate (146) Jul 20, 2016 Indiana

    No, that was just an observation. I don't necessarily care how hazy the beer is as long as it tastes great. I think mine dropped clear sooner than most as I used a dry yeast (M07) instead of the often recommended liquid varieties (Conan, for example). The hop fade is the reason I don't feel the beer is as good as it once was.

    In any case, I'd say your 3 month rule is a good one. I can't wait to taste the "regular" IPA I kegged yesterday, as it should be my freshest beer yet!
     
  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,942) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    I don’t think the issue was the format of the yeast (dry yeast) but the particular strain. Michael Tonsmiere wrote on his blog:

    “There are three English-origin strains that ferment most examples of the style (Whitbread, Boddington’s, and Conan).”

    I used the dry yeast version of the Whitbread strain (Fermentis S-04) and my so called ‘NE’ style IPA came out hazy/murky/turbid/opaque with no indications of clearing (albeit at the 2.5 month mark).

    I would recommend that if you choose to brew another so called ‘NE’ style IPA that you use either the Whitbread (e.g., S-04 for dry yeast) or Boddington’s (e.g., WY1318) strains. I have had Heady Topper on a few occasions and those beers had a bit of haze but they were not murky/turbid/opaque so maybe the Conan yeast strain is the least desirable of the three strains for these sorts of beers.

    Cheers!

    P.S. The link to Michael Tonsmiere’s discussion: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2016/08/juicy-sacch-trois-ne-pale-ale.html
     
  4. Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse

    Ten_SeventySix_Brewhouse Initiate (146) Jul 20, 2016 Indiana

    Thanks for the link. I chose M07, as some table somewhere on the internet said it was a substitute for 007 or 1098. In turn, 007 and 1098 were listed in a recipe supposedly provided by JC (of Trillium) himself. That's all hearsay, though, so maybe I'll give Whitbread a try, especially since M07 has been discontinued.
     
  5. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,942) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    I did find this: “Mangrove Jack’s British Ale Yeast M07 is very similar to White Labs WLP007.”

    http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shop/brewing-ingredients/yeast/dry-yeast/british-ale-dry-yeast-m07

    Needless to say but I am uncertain what “very similar” really means.

    Oh well, if M07 is discontinued I suppose this doesn’t matter too much.

    I can personally vouch for S-04 and I have read many accounts of WY1318 ‘working’ for the so called ‘NE’ style IPA.

    Cheers!
     
  6. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Poo-Bah (1,820) Jan 20, 2012 Colorado
    Society Trader

    Fwiw my NEIPAs never drop clear using 1318
     
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  7. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

  8. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,942) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    Bary, what attenuation did you achieve with this yeast? Did you make a starter?

    Cheers!
     
  9. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    I don't routinely calculate attenuation..I just taste the beer and let it speak :slight_smile:...seriously, the apparent attenuation...not the real attenuation :rolling_eyes:, was ~ 76.5%

    http://beersmith.com/blog/2010/09/14/apparent-and-real-attenuation-for-beer-brewers-part-2/

    edit: yes, I made a starter...almost had to...pouch was 4 months old
    Jack, just so you don't think I have my shit in one sock, this batch was when my grain mill was fubar and the OG was a little (a lot) low...1.051 cheers
     
    #89 GreenKrusty101, Jan 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Poo-Bah (4,942) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Society

    So, your FG was about 1.012? Is that what you expected with this yeast?

    Cheers!
     
  11. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    For that (lower than expected) OG and grain bill...yeah, pretty much
     
  12. smalloy88

    smalloy88 Initiate (0) Sep 13, 2016 Pennsylvania

    A few questions as I've never dry hopped during primary.

    Do your hops disperse after adding during fermantation, or do they float on top of the krausen? Do you include a marble or some sort of anchor to hold them below the surface?

    Do you worry about splashing when adding? I traditionally rack onto my dry hops but not w the primary. I'm using a carboy and am debating between dropping them right in or using some sort of sanitized screen to slowly drop the hops in.

    I'm also planning on doing the traditional dry hop in my serving keg. I'll hang the hops with floss for five days or so, remove, then carbonate. Do you see any issues with this?
     
  13. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Devotee (454) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts

    I put mine in a one gallon paint strainer bag weighed down with a stainless spoon and hung by dental floss. Granted I'm using a bucket so doing so in a carboy wouldn't work the same

    Re: keg hop. I do the same

    Good luck
     
  14. CarolusP

    CarolusP Initiate (0) Oct 22, 2015 Minnesota

    I actually just added the last dry hop for the AP NE IPA recipe last night. I have a Big Mouth Bubbler, so I just used a muslin bag with a sanitized shot glass inside to drop it to the bottom.
     
  15. smalloy88

    smalloy88 Initiate (0) Sep 13, 2016 Pennsylvania

    ok, so Murphy's Law held up for the duration of this batch for me. Pretty much from start to finish. Beer is still salvaged, but my patience is almost out.

    I'm in quite the predicament right now. So I used a corny keg as my secondary vessel. Purged and pressure transferred from my primary. I had two sanitized muslin bags hanging from string and tied to the relief valve, anchored down by shot glasses. After 1 day in the secondary, I notice I could only see one bag tied to the relief valve, so one of my hop bags fell to the bottom of the keg. Not a huge deal, instead of just lifting my dry hop bags out and carbonating, I pressure transferred over to the final purged keg. As I was transferring (3-4psi) I noticed a stoppage in flow. I immediately thought the hop bag was clogging the dip tube. right when I went to detach the liquid out disconnect to stop the transfer, I heard a pop and could see a ton of sediment coming through. Luckily I stopped it a second after the pop. So now I have an exploded muslin bag at the bottom of my secondary. I was able to transfer about half of the keg over. I ordered a filter earlier this week, so my options are..

    1. wait for the filter and filter inline between the secondary and the final keg, adding on top of the already transferred beer. I've been reading that this could increase oxidation in these NEIPA's so I'm not sure about this. I would do a closed transfer, transferring sanitizer solution through the filter with co2 before transferring the beer.
    2. remove the dip tube and put nylon or some sort of screen over it and transfer the rest immediately
    3. Carb up the one keg and keep the second half of the batch separate. Since this half is mostly free of hop sediment and the burn from the fines, I'm worried that adding on top of this would decrease the quality of the beer.

    4. Alternate idea. I really want to salvage the 2ish gallons that are in the secondary. FYI roughly 3 ounces of hops were in that bag

    Right now both kegs are purged with co2 and sitting sealed.

    Sorry for the novel..
     
  16. drink1121

    drink1121 Initiate (0) Mar 23, 2009 California

    Have you thought of just cold crashing, making the hops fall out and then transfer? I dont even use a bag for the dry hops and this works for me. I just keep the keg on its side, leaving the "in" on the floor (actually will be the out for you in this case). I have done it probably 6-7 times by now.
     
  17. smalloy88

    smalloy88 Initiate (0) Sep 13, 2016 Pennsylvania

    I ended up cold crashing and transferring over to a new keg, keeping the two separate. The dry hopping on its side sounds like an interesting idea. So you dry hop on its side, and then when it's time to transfer, you set it upright and transfer? Otherwise, the dip tube would only get half of the beer with the keg on its side. Or do you gravity feed out of the IN post (no dip tube) with the keg on its side?
     
  18. holzwama

    holzwama Initiate (0) Aug 27, 2015 Minnesota

    FYI: Since I first brewed this beer, I've used the same grain bill (almost) for the last handful of IPAs. I've swapped out the base malt, but mostly kept it the same. Playing with different yeast, maybe a different hop, but the timing and amounts of grain and hops is great.
    We do great work! Doing a version with Vic Secret soon.
     
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  19. drink1121

    drink1121 Initiate (0) Mar 23, 2009 California

    I pressure transfer with the keg still on its side. There is about 32 ounces of hop matter and beer left over when finished, but I am ok with that. I make sure to put the "in" side on the bottom, even though it becomes the out when doing this. Make sense?
     
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