thoughts on $4$ trades

Discussion in 'Trade Talk' started by bolognasuave, Apr 28, 2015.

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  1. JFMBearcat

    JFMBearcat Initiate (58) Dec 9, 2014 Ohio

    I agree that shelf and semi limited beer should roll $4$, but for brewery only/1 day per year releases, I easily see why they trade over $4$. I certainly don't see anyone trading $50 worth of their beer for BVDL on the FT forums. Supply and demand work themselves out, and there's nothing wrong with that.
    nc41, Robyn and dtjager like this.
  2. mhenson42

    mhenson42 Zealot (514) Nov 20, 2011 Texas

    Yet auctions are somehow wrong. Lol

    I really don't see a difference if supply & demand are gonna justify trade values. What better way to establish value than an auction format. Personally, I only trade $4$ so I don't worry about trades being lopsided. I don't care how .rar a beer is. I just care that that I'd rather drink the beer I'm trading for more than the beer I have. I'm not commodities trading. I'm actually gonna drink the stuff I trade for.
    breadwinner and KSOZE like this.
  3. ESeab

    ESeab Initiate (0) Jan 3, 2013 New Jersey

    Because I'd like to start trading, Carton to be exact

    But thanks for the help. Money for money? As in your retail = my retail?, makes sense
    KSOZE likes this.
  4. KSOZE

    KSOZE Initiate (0) Feb 10, 2015 Ohio

    Let me know if you want OH IPA's I'd love to try Boat and 077xx! BM me if interested.
    ESeab likes this.
  5. Yohann

    Yohann Aspirant (215) Apr 29, 2014 Wisconsin

    Well, IMHO yes and no. I try to keep to $4$ with beers of similar availability, but with the $ based on brewery/release prices. Just because I ran across a four-pack of BCBCS at an out-of-the-way shop for $40 doesn't mean I expect someone else to value it for that much in a trade.
    JavaNoire, Janeinma and KSOZE like this.
  6. black13

    black13 Initiate (0) Apr 11, 2010 Oregon

    This really is a moving target with no right or wrong answers, but lots of discusison.
    As others have said, it's a good starting point, but in the end it all comes down to this: Are both sides happy?

    There are so many factors to think about when you're making an ISO/FT.
    -supply/demand (of the beer you're looking to get and the beer you're offering)
    -bottle limits
    -Rarity for rarity
    -brewery only or distribution
    -retail price (will be different based on distribution)
    -perceived value
    -Hype associated with the beer and/or brewery

    The list goes on, but you get the point that there are many factors to consider. A couple examples to show how $4$ doesn't work. VSB and Sour Peach are brewery only releases that cost $8/bottle. You will not find anyone trading these $4$, particularly because there are not many/any bottles with the demand these bottles have at that price. Another example is de Garde bottles, where many are $9 or $10. In the past it was a bit easier to make trades for these beers becuase the limits were higher. But as demand has increased and bottle limits decreased to 1 or 2, it's now much harder to make $4$ deals on de Garde trades.

    In the end, trading is much easier and more enjoyable if you're flexible on what you want in realation to what you have, and you realize you can't have every beer released.
  7. HOPSareKey

    HOPSareKey Initiate (0) Oct 12, 2012 Illinois

    $4$ should only apply to shelf or readily available items. Once you are talking about a beer with bottle limits/special releases/low bottle count/etc, $4$ goes right out the window.
    Robyn, nc41 and mlhyatt like this.
  8. jdhowe

    jdhowe Initiate (0) Mar 18, 2013 Georgia

    Nailed it. If beers of of a comparable "tier" (shelf, limited shelf, brewery-only, special event, waelzbro, whatever) $4$ is a pretty equitable place to start. Ultimately, do whatever makes both parties happy.

    The only counter-example I've had to this is where the value of bottles in the trade were not really something that could be nailed down that $4$ as a notion went out the window. To provide a concrete example, this particular trade involved both Vanilla Rye and Fou Foune. Vanilla Rye seemed to be going anywhere from $17-$40, while Fou could have been anywhere from $20-$80+. If you're using $4$ as a metric, you can end up anywhere from VR:FF of 4+:1 all the way to 1:2. As a result of this inherent uncertainty, neither party in this trade brought up $4$ and we just quickly closed on an assortment of bottles on both ends that satisfied both parties.

    Ultimately, $4$ is just a good heuristic to use when trying to establish a trade that is likely to make both parties happy. Don't live and die by it, but don't dismiss it -- it's a heuristic for a reason.
    JavaNoire likes this.
  9. TonyLema1

    TonyLema1 Poo-Bah (1,932) Nov 19, 2008 South Carolina

    There's a difference between what it's worth, and what you paid for it...there's geographical and economical factors in play, in my limited trading, I've always disclosed what I pay for it at my store, and I don't need exact compensation, as long as it's in the ballpark
    KSOZE likes this.
  10. JFMBearcat

    JFMBearcat Initiate (58) Dec 9, 2014 Ohio

    Exactly, otherwise Huna or Dark Lord would be traded for two 6 packs of Pivo Pils. I doubt anyone is doing that.
  11. markgugs

    markgugs Initiate (0) Dec 20, 2006 New Jersey

    no, you're missing the key point myself and several others noted earlier in the thread.

    first & foremost, the beers need to be at the same level of rarity/availability/etc.

    as long as that holds true, $4$ normally works (there are always outliers, i.e. VSB, or odd situations, i.e. Cantillon)
    JavaNoire and KSOZE like this.
  12. JFMBearcat

    JFMBearcat Initiate (58) Dec 9, 2014 Ohio

    Oh I agree, I was more directing that towards people who say they trade $4$ no matter what. I probably quoted the wrong person.
    JavaNoire and markgugs like this.
  13. nc41

    nc41 Poo-Bah (2,771) Sep 25, 2008 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    $4$ works well for every day beers that are being flipped, but it goes out the window on ltd release hard to get beer. I've seen $300 worth of beer offered up on a single 12 oz Kbbs that cost $15, and some of the isos IMO were quite ridiculous, but I have no doubt it traded for other rare beers at a very tilted rate. Just the way it is on certain beers.
  14. gcg49

    gcg49 Initiate (0) Dec 29, 2014 Texas

    This - I had a guy give me attitude because I expected ~$35 of beer for 12 bottles of Zombie dust. First of all, $4$ should be what you paid, not the best possible price from the brewery itself. If it's too much, you can just walk away and find someone who lives in Munster. Second of all, shipping was going to cost about twice as much as a couple of bombers that I was looking for. Thankfully I was able to move on to another offer.
  15. CTFalcon

    CTFalcon Aspirant (269) Nov 9, 2014 Connecticut

    I understand prices vary so $4$ can be different to different people, but some established baselines do need to exist. I can't trade my $40 vanilla rye for 2x someone's $20 vanilla rye. Unless someone wants to do this haha, mine is more "valuable".
  16. gcg49

    gcg49 Initiate (0) Dec 29, 2014 Texas

    Agreed, I guess my point is that there are many more variables than the MSRP in play and all need to be considered to come up with a fair $4$. For truly rare stuff like BCBS variants, $4$ is pretty much irrelevant unless you trading another $20 beer that you waited in line for hours for.
  17. CTFalcon

    CTFalcon Aspirant (269) Nov 9, 2014 Connecticut

    Oh I agree, just raising the point is all. It applies to regular beers as well. A good local example for me is Sip of Sunshine. I've seen it from $14-$22 a 4pk. I think enough people have traded it that it had a fairly well established cost of $15 for $4$ purposes. Unfortunately some stores will charge more than others, in most cases I don't think that should factor into $4$.
  18. aasher

    aasher Poo-Bah (3,608) Jan 27, 2010 Indiana

    The prices are jacked up. Bloody nihilists.....
    spicoli00 likes this.
  19. CoverMePorkins

    CoverMePorkins Initiate (0) Sep 17, 2012 New Mexico

    I am just getting into trading. I was involved in a trade recently with a poster in this thread. I think we both were quite happy with the outcome. I wasn't worried about winning it and he wasn't either. Because of that we are working on another trade.

    I have another trade working for a sought after beer of mine. I have had this certain beer multiple times. If I can make another BA happy and get something in return in the $4$ range that is what this site is for. I have a lot of great beer and enjoy trying more. I am not trying to win.
    LehighAce06, striker2160 and beernuts like this.
  20. beernuts

    beernuts Initiate (0) Jan 23, 2014 Virginia

    Cheers, I'm right there with you. Although I am trying to win, I consider winning hooking up the other person bigger than they hooked me up. If we all have that attitude, everyone wins!
  21. spicoli00

    spicoli00 Defender (642) Jul 6, 2005 Indiana

    even Whole Foods doesn't charge that much:rolling_eyes:
  22. spicoli00

    spicoli00 Defender (642) Jul 6, 2005 Indiana

    Challenge accepted!

    I may not be able to, but i sure as hell am trying.

    This is why i extra 3F oude gueze that's turding up the shelves around here.
  23. KidIcarus1945

    KidIcarus1945 Initiate (0) Mar 10, 2015 Florida

    It's pretty simple actually, sometimes you have to go over $4$ to get a beer that is in high demand, the best way to approach these is to make up the difference with locals.

    I had some really tasty bombers that I traded for mead once, the problem is both my 22oz bottles would have only gotten me 1 375ml bottle of mead. I asked if he would do 2 bottles for the bombers + easier to get locals to make up the price difference, and it worked out for both of us.
  24. BradStokley

    BradStokley Initiate (0) Jan 19, 2013 Maryland

    $4$ trades are great if you're trading like distro'd or brewery only released beers in similar (not exact) quantities. Outside of that, if you're putting up an ISO (insert hard to find beer here) be prepared to go WAY over $4$ because that's most likely what it's going to take to land it. It's just the cost of landing some of these really hard to find whales.
  25. krustster

    krustster Initiate (0) Nov 22, 2013 Maine

    I would much rather get the same amount of beer from a trade than the same $ value. I haven't had any real problems doing trades at ballpark $4$ values though, as in "around $30-40" rather than "well this was $16 so I will need 3 of your $6 bottles rather than the 2 you were offering" type things. It's pretty easy to see when people are trying to take advantage of the $4$ standard and avoid them. One guy on here was offering a growler of hard to get IPA and looking for a hard to get BA stout in return. He said "I want to go $4$ and this was $35 so I'm looking for 7 bottles of x." Needless to say he was met with crickets.

    Same guy made a thread not long after, offering a BCBS variant for like $70 worth of beer he wanted. What happened to $4$ buddy? :rolling_eyes:
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