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Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by krl2112, Dec 26, 2012.
Sorry, edited for clarity
If people want to hoard hundreds of bottles, than that's their own gamble. Yes, it's annoying to go to a store and not be able to find what I'm looking for because someone decided it'll be a good idea to put away 19309301930193 bottles for a "special occasion". Truth is that most of the time, people don't have the correct storage facility to store and properly age beers, and their collections get out of hand. But it's their cash, and if they want to run the risk of ending up with a foul or over the hill beer, it's their money and not mine.
Like some the other posters, I guess my biggest issue with selling beer are the people who take advantage of limited release events and who have zero interest in the craft beer community. I've heard some horror stories on this site about people getting beer, changing clothes in their car and getting back into the line, that kind of shit. For last year's KBS release, apparently there was a group of people who set up camp like 2 days before and looking around their tents when I finally got to the front of the line, I saw an awful lot of Coors Lite cans. And I'm not going to assume where they were from but they had Chicago Bears tents and attire one, lol.
EDIT: Quick postmortem on that story, because of the massive amount of people that showed up, Founders cut the allocation from a case to 1/2 case. Let's just say people who had been waiting in line for more than 36 hours were a little put out ;-)
Yeah I honestly would be a little aggrevated with people who truly don;t enjoy the passion and are out for JUST the money. I know I mention capitalism up above and all that. I guess it bothers me a bit but again, whatever floats people's boats. If they are willing to spend the time waiting in line, etc then whatever, but I do feel your frustration on that one!
Right, and it probably does happen less than people may think, I truly believe like 90% of the people at limited releases are their for their own personal enjoyment. That being said, it does piss me off that it happens at all more than anything b/c these damn releases have become regular shitshows. But there's not much one can do about it I guess.
Wa wa so your angry because ppl are calling you names and picking on the hoarder. Get over it, your need to defend your actions through that rant in your OP, is evident that you are aware of your selfesh acts and that your wrong for doing it.
Just try and think about your fellow BAs, next time you go truck chasing to grab 30 bottles of something. If you do, i'm sure you would come to the conclusion that the 10 you got from your mules, are good enough.
Dead? or just Dirty?
"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
All this talk....I want a Beer!
Actually I don't think I doing anything wrong and too bad u did not actually read my OP where I say to please be constructive.
I don't care if the weenies can't afford the best beer. The weenies don't comprehend the benefits of the free market.
If the beers were retailed at a natural market price, there wouldn't be hoarders nor a secondary market. The brewers (and distributors) would make more money. It would incent more brewers to brew more of the bigger better beers. Competition. Beers gets even better and prices become somewhat more affordable. This would benefit the brewing industry, and the consumer.
It's simple beer advocacy over weenie advocacy. I'm for beer advocacy! I don't much care for the weenies.
Being constructive went out the window when you said you were angry with the ppl that have an opposing opinion as yours.
Either way, this debate has been beat to death, and this thread (like your previous one about a month ago) is only stirring up shiot. Plus your views have changed, as mentioned, so this is pointless.
Next month you'll start a thread about how much you hate hoarders, truck chasers, and sellers.
Nice. Model citizen. You must have been raised under high tension wires or maybe fetal alcohol syndrome or something as you clearly don't understand my posts. Don't understand em, don't read em or respond to em! Other people have good input and I thank them. Ur what we refer to as column fodder.
Haters wanna hate. Lovers wanna love. I don't even want, none of the above.
Drip, drip, drip.
Blah blah, very "constructive" response. Just remember you started this convo, knowing ppl would not agree with your practices or what you have the need to say about them.
My true opinion on the matter is, though i find the act of hoarding, collecting, and not selling/trading $4$ is wrong. It is your money and you can spend it however you want. I have no business telling anyone what to do with their money. I just ask that you think of your fellow BAs as you do so.
I know I started it and I am TOTALLY ok with people not agreeing with me, just be constructive which your new comment actually is. So I appreciate that!
I'm OK with people doing whatever with their beer. I'm even OK with other people labeling them with names like hoarder, seller, non-advocate, etc... But I draw the line at people who get fed up with the ones doing the labeling.
That's pretty funny!!
As an experiment, the next case of Cantillon i get in at the store i'll be purchasing myself. I'll then document myself opening each bottle and dumping it out. This way, there's no issue with trading, horading, cellaring, or ebaying.
If only this could happen.
Too bad it isn't, and so many "advocate" other solutions.
Lol was that a jab at me sir?
I mainly buy beer for my own personal consumption (limited releases as well as everyday beers).
I will attempt to get more than I would normally be entitled to (4 pack, 6 pack, bottle) if...
A. - I love it and I want more
B. - I am asked by another if I can get one for them ($4$ trade)
C. - I decide to include one as a "extra" in a current/future trade
D. - I decide to include it in a 'box-o-beer' sent randomly to a former trading partner just for the heck of it
E. - all of the above
Actually, Wherever you heard that, It was B.S. I was in that tent all dang cold a** night and we were drinking a shit load of very awesome beers. I saw no Coors Light cans or any of that kind of crap that night/morning. We set up Friday around 5pm. So also B.S.
The people who came and set up were dedicated to getting the beer that "WE" wanted to get. If you think about how many bottles (24) we had thought we'd get, It was worth hanging out, having a good time, lots of good food and plenty of awesome beers. Getting the allotment cut did suck but I'm glad to have got what I did. (Figure I can enjoy 1 12oz bottle of KBS a month till next year) Really, one bottle a month of one of my favorite beers?!?! Yeah that did suck but as I said, I'm glad I got what I did and that others got some that would have gone home empty handed.
As for the remark about the Bears tent and where "we" were from! Really way to be a Dic*weed. Most were from Chicago but a few of were from much further away. Don't be a Pric* and stereotype just because of the Bears tent. I'm personally not even really into Football and doesn't matter what team is on the tent I'm hanging out in.
Sorry for the rant, I felt that the above post needed a reply after such stupid remarks.
We all love beer and should enjoy it for that. Simply put you can't get everyone to feel/act/think the same so you just have to make due. Sometimes the dice will roll in your favor and you'll luck out and get a nice find, other times you'll come up empty handed. Like I did on KBS day, just plan ahead and if you really want a beer then make sure you're willing to do what it takes to get it. It's quite obvious how big this segment has grown and if you really want something in this "age" of beer-awesomeness, you're going to have to step up to get what you want.
Someone with no appreciation for the beer they are drinking.
It's very understandable when there is reasoning behind it.
I recently was lucky enough to get Abyss and dissident for the first time in my area.
With Abyss, I bought my 2 (1 to drink, 1 to age) and was fine leaving the rest. Then i was offered a trade for 3 Abyss. So i went back and luckily they were still there and was able to get the 3 i needed with bottles still left on the shelf. Then i was offered 2 bottles from a fellow BA, bought and drank them.
With dissident, again, i bought 2 (1 to drink 1 to age), was given 1 for my bday (drank), and then a week later i went back and luckily there was still enough to get to more 2 drink.
This was the first time i have ever bought that many multiple bombers of a certain brew, they were just too damn tasty and dangerously sessionable!
Not sure if this makes me a hypocrite, but i feel what i did was justified. As every bomber had a purpose and there were multiple days in between each purchase, allowing others the opportunity to get their share.
I have been a BA for almost 6 years and discovered a lot of great craft beer thanks to this website. (I joined at 21.5 yrs old thanks to an internet search after picking up a random sixpack because I felt likesomething different)
For me it has been a cycle/journey.
1. The first few months-year I was just drinking and laerning as much as I could about craft beer. Picking up brews at the best local places/drinking at the best local joints and finding out what I liked and din't liked. I am an analytical person- so I reviewed almost every beer I tried. I read others reviews and learned from it.
2. 1-1.5 years- I hones my skills and learned more about each style. I had a goal of trying each style so I triead to find gold standard examples and review them.
3. 1.5-4 years- Someone found me and offered a trade. He realized that I liked beer and that I could get a brewery only beer in my town that he couldn't and in turn offered me brews I couldn't get. This spawned a trading addiction for me. I was able to try all these fantastic beers I couldn't get and offer my good stuff in return. WIN-WIN. Lots of tastings and tasting groups endured.
4. Some of this sucks/jaded- After awhile I had been burned on a trade or 2. I had a good trading group. Tried all of the beers of fame and a vast majority of the most popular beers and realized that I don't agree with 1/3 of the top 100 popular beers at all-they weren't for me even though I am open minded about styles. I don't want to pay $50 or offer my best whale for a beer that I might not like...
5. Sharing with others- Nothing beats enjoying beer more than teaching others about it. Sharing and rehashing old favorites is awesome as well as experiencing new awesome or not so awesome beers. A positive overall beer review doesn't mean you or your friends will like it. You have to read the words of the review + just go out and try new things. Disappointment from hyped beers is inevitable. I also moved to a more remote area with less tasting groups.
Maybe more trading is in the future. Or homebrewing?
Bless their hearts, I know they're advocating something, but to qualify as solutions they should resolve more problems than they create. There are times when we cannot outsmart human nature, and we shouldn't try. After all we're talking about a luxury, beer for people who can afford it. We aren't talking about water for drought victims.
and what was the whole point of this post? I kinda lost track by the end...
Breweries and bottle shops are more than capable of controlling hoarders and sellers. Hence bottle limits.
Beyond that, it seems like people tend to hate the people that get something they want because the reason for wanting it are different from their own. Drinkers hate cellar junkies, cellar junkies hate sellers, and sellers hate drinkers for wasting that sweet profit. The bottom line is, if I don't get it for the reason I want, then YOU suck.
Everyone thinks the best way to do something is the way they would have gotten what they want. The 40 people at my local Westy release that got boxes were happy with how it was ran. The people that didn't suddenly had brilliant ideas. "You should have waited until 7pm! (when they got off work)" "You should have had an online lottery! (since they couldn't come in that day)" "You should have a ranking list of your best customers and give them priority on buying this! (because they felt they deserved something and a convoluted, high-effort system gets them what they want)" "You should have a beer test so only the most beer-educated booze lovers get the special release! (an entitled elitist ACTUALLY said something along these lines since he thought he'd appreciate the brew more)"
And it comes full circle to the breweries and bottle shops being able to control the flow of releases how they see fit. They set the rules and if you can't get what you want because of that, at least don't be a sore loser about it.
I thought I had a grip on the point. Until halfway through my post apparently. It looks like I lost myself in a ramble....
Ive come to the conclusion that I like fresh beer vs cellar/aged beer.
Is this due to a lack of self control?
All of the items in the title - not worth it. Just drink beer.
I buy beer to drink and share with friends/ family. Sometimes I pick up a beer because it is available at that time, and I know I won't be able to get it later. It may sit for a while, it may not. If there is a beer a want and I know it is limited I will pick up what I need, not always what I want. What's the point of being the only one to try a beer. It is meant to be drunk and enjoyed and shared.
Fair enough. I'm glad you were able to clear it up, but there were Coors lights cans sitting around in that area. Obviously I wasn't clear enough in my original post but my brief story was based on observation and stuff I was hearing in line. I never spoke to anybody from those tents. I'm thrilled that it turned out to be BS and you all are enjoying some awesome 2012 KBS as we speak. Thanks for setting me straight.
Touchy, touchy...it was a joke chief, hence the "lol." There are a few people in the Great Lakes forum who seem to have this running joke about Chicago people taking over MI releases. Relax, every person from Chi-town I've met at releases have been totally cool. I feel like I have to put a disclaimer on nearly everything I post here now b/c somebody will take it the wrong way.
I couldn't agree more, and I apologize that you took that as a personal insult. I certainly don't stereotype BA's based on where they are from, that's ridiculous. And as for putting up with the people who are out there for profit only, we are also in agreement just like I said in my second post from that thread: "I truly believe like 90% of the people at limited releases are their for their own personal enjoyment. That being said, it does piss me off that it happens at all more than anything b/c these damn releases have become regular shitshows. But there's not much one can do about it I guess."
I mean if you really want to camp out in front of Founders like a day before the release, go for it. I won't be losing any sleep. But I reserve the right to bitch about standing in line for 9 hours ;-)
Ive got a crapload of bottles in my cellar, way more than I should. 2 bottles of the really limited stuff, with an intention of having one soon, one later. HOWEVER, if I had the chance to sell off some stuff that I was willing to part with at a 20% markup, I'd do it in a heartbeat. It would be gouging, and profits would lend longevity to my beer hobby. The problem is, no matter how you look at it, those actions are what create Black Markets, and cultivate general scum and villainy. Not worth it. Trades will have to do, until something less shady (than illegal sales) comes along.
What if you have a beer cellar with what you'd consider too much for your personal needs/practicality. You have many an aged beer and sell them to friends/acquaintances for a slight markup. I mean hey, you housed/aged them, that has to count for something, right? Besides being illegal, is it really that scummy/bad?
Here's my thing.
I buy one of whatever I want from one of the four beer shops I frequent. If they have something rare, I'll come home that night and post a thread here, saying, 'so and so has such and such, get off your ass and go.'
Then, if I go back a week later, and they still have some of the rare stuff on the shelf that I want another bottle to cellar or whatnot, I'll buy it. I figure at that point, I bought one, shouted out to the largest community I know of, and then gave it a week. At that point, if there's still some sitting there, I've done my part.
I'm not going store to store buying it all up one at a time, I'm not buying more than a bottle per visit, and I'm not going back the next day to snag a second bottle when a different guy is working.
I think that's a perfectly fair way to go about it, and even then, one of the best parts of having a tiny hoard in the basement is sharing it with friends who haven't had it, or even giving away bottles to friends and family who would appreciate them.
Not to mention having bottles to trade with people all over the country who want what I have and gots what I want and can't get. I'd never sell a bottle, but on occasion I'll buy a bottle if I can't get it elsewise. I'd rather people stuck to trades, which really is something that just fosters the community, than actually sell them, but it's unrealistic for me to expect it, and there are much worse things happening in this world than someone scalping a beer.
When all is said and done, I'm pretty sure I'm going to beer heaven.
I like the OP believe BOTH. People Should be able to do what they like with beers or other items they pay for, however, personally we both prefer sharing beers with friends.