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Trading Sense: Red Flags

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk' started by maximum12, Jun 5, 2012.

  1. HopsJunkiedotcom

    HopsJunkiedotcom Initiate (0) Dec 24, 2010 Florida

    Yeah, he does. You bring ebay into any conversation for a trade on here, 90% of the people will shut you down real quick. I am the 90% :p
  2. stxSS07

    stxSS07 Initiate (0) Nov 23, 2010 Illinois

    Nice ninja edit about being born before me. Since that apparently carries so much weight, I guess that means I should defer to your seasoned opinions then? :rolleyes:

    BTW if you're such a stand-up guy I'll take you up on that offer of giving me your Vanilla DL for free. I promise you'll get a tasty.
  3. nanobrew

    nanobrew Initiate (0) Dec 31, 2008 California

    I think you missed Pahn's point. And yes I think Cbeer88 speaks for the vast majority of BA. He has been around a long time and is a stand up guy in the BA community, and is very level headed in the forums (I mean, look at his post to "likes" ratio, it is crazy high).

    The odd thing is you keep talking about not wanting to get "bent over" or have some one take advantage of you. But this is exactly what you are doing. You are trying to value your beers VERY high and claim everyone else's beer is worth less. If you do not understand why BT (especially an 09) does not go 1:1 for a 12 'DL, or why CBS would not get a CR when it might get a BT, I suggest you keep learning in the threads and maybe start by trading OTS locals-4-locals.

    p.s. no one cares how old you are. In BA years and experience you are young and have a lot to learn
  4. olympuszymurgus

    olympuszymurgus Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2009 California
    Beer Trader

    That's bullshit, fuck those people.

    If you need any MN brews give me a yell, you'll get the same treatment all traders get. I'll be mean, ship late, and never add extras other than infected homebrew.
  5. ShogoKawada

    ShogoKawada Meyvn (1,247) May 31, 2009 Pennsylvania

    I always get the vibe that it's the first step of commoditizing beer. I know I'm talking out my ass on this one, though.
  6. ShogoKawada

    ShogoKawada Meyvn (1,247) May 31, 2009 Pennsylvania

    100% on this- I know not everyone cares but I don't like to trade with ebay'rz.
    Holland likes this.
  7. EdwardFortyHands

    EdwardFortyHands Initiate (0) May 3, 2012 Iowa

    Ok tell me where to be and when to be there and no i dont want to attend your buddies bday.
  8. Jparkanzky

    Jparkanzky Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2011 Ohio

    I don't think it would be worth a case of Vanilla DL's to hang out with that guy for 5 minutes.
    MordorMongo likes this.
  9. rmalinowski4

    rmalinowski4 Aspirant (212) Oct 22, 2010 Illinois
    Beer Trader

    While I agree with you about Cbeer88, the post to likes ratio isn't a good indicator of being level headed, just check out Backfat's ratio.
  10. GrumpyOldTroll

    GrumpyOldTroll Initiate (0) May 5, 2012 New Jersey

    Is beer not a commodity?
  11. ShogoKawada

    ShogoKawada Meyvn (1,247) May 31, 2009 Pennsylvania

    to some more than others. To me, it's a good time.
    HopsJunkiedotcom and cosmicevan like this.
  12. stxSS07

    stxSS07 Initiate (0) Nov 23, 2010 Illinois

    Sounds deadly...but...so...tempting.
  13. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,448) Dec 2, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    given the places cbeer88 posts, i think it actually is meaningful. me, i have lots of likes because i post in LNBA regularly. and because i write, like, "fuck you!" in the beginning of a bad thread and get 10~ likes. in other words, in my case it's probably less meaningful than in cbeer88's.
  14. EdwardFortyHands

    EdwardFortyHands Initiate (0) May 3, 2012 Iowa

    ok well send me a bm and we can exchange numbers and meet someplace by wrigley while a game is going on and have a beer and a chat, if we are oil and water no harm no foul (pun intended with ur avatar)LOL

    I have a reference from an IP deal in the chicago suburbs from back in May,
    Traded with funhog -- http://beeradvocate.com/community/members/funhog.577324/

    good dude did he obv did not go all werewolves of london on me!
  15. Agold

    Agold Defender (641) Mar 13, 2010 Pennsylvania

    No it is not. A commodity is undifferentiated and fungible. Craft beer is neither of these things.


    Not Commodity:
    Craft Beer
  16. GrumpyOldTroll

    GrumpyOldTroll Initiate (0) May 5, 2012 New Jersey

    That craft beer is not a commodity in a fungible sense the way WTI, Brent crude and No. 2 cotton are doesn't make it not a "commodity"; just like art.

       [kuh-mod-i-tee] Show IPA
    noun, plural com·mod·i·ties.
    an article of trade or commerce, especially a product as distinguished from a service.
    something of use, advantage, or value.
    Stock Exchange . any unprocessed or partially processed good, as grain, fruits, and vegetables, or precious metals.
    Obsolete . a quantity of goods.

  17. EdwardFortyHands

    EdwardFortyHands Initiate (0) May 3, 2012 Iowa

    Commodity is the generic term for any marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs

    Fungibility is harder to nail down but when trading commodities it refers to the ability to turn a specific instrument into cash or another similar instrument.

    If one looks at the market for cellar-able wines one finds something much more robust than this community... In fact, the first person to the mountain top on a beer only auction house might be opening a gold mine.
  18. Agold

    Agold Defender (641) Mar 13, 2010 Pennsylvania

    Thank you for linking to the commerce page, otherwise I wouldn't have found this gem:
    an interchange of goods or commodities, especially on alarge scale between different countries
    or between different parts of the same country
    (domestic commerce);
    trade; business.

    So dictionary.com is circular in definition 1. I love when dictionary articles define word a using word b, then use b to define word a. Unless you were referring to:

    sexual intercourse

    But I don't think you were.

    And if you are going by number 2. everything you buy, sell or use is a commodity in which case beer (and pretty much everything else for that matter) has always been a commodity and the above statement is meaningless.

    Or you are talking about 3 or 4 which quite frankly don't make any sense.

  19. GrumpyOldTroll

    GrumpyOldTroll Initiate (0) May 5, 2012 New Jersey

    The word "commerce" was hyperlinked in what I copied - the scenario you describe isn't what's going on. Beer fits the first two definitions of "commodity", but not the third -- the third definition is the one EdwardsFortyHands pointed out that beer does not fit. That's the contract or spot on the CBOE or the LME.

    You are correct about everything bought, sold or used being a commodity.
  20. Agold

    Agold Defender (641) Mar 13, 2010 Pennsylvania

    If commodity is the generic term for any marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs than the above statement is completely useless and ridiculous.

    You are defining liquidity not fungibility. If a good is fungible I don't care if it came from producer A, or producer B or producer C. Answering the question "is beer fungible?" is as easy as answering the question "do you care if your imperial stout came from founders or bells or victory or dogfish head etc. etc.?"
  21. EdwardFortyHands

    EdwardFortyHands Initiate (0) May 3, 2012 Iowa

    I Don't argue Philadelphia Flyers Hockey with you please don't argue commodities trading with a commodities trader. If you open your ears and listen you just might learn something.

    Try reading my definitions again with less rage in your mind... Let's take it to a BM if you are still having trouble with the concepts...

    In further news maybe you could enlighten me as to why the Flyers logo looks the way it does, that'd actually be an interesting story i'd like to hear.
  22. Agold

    Agold Defender (641) Mar 13, 2010 Pennsylvania

    Wow buddy. Chill. Definitely no rage in my mind. I'm an economist, and I deal with stuff like this fairly often as well. But you being a commodity trader does not mean that you know what fungible means. And by the way, as a commodity trader, when is the last time you saw a listing for craft beer on the CBOT?

    Edit: Fungibility is more about interchangability. SNPA is fungible with SNPA, but not with PTE or any other beer for that matter.

    The flyers logo came about right before the team was born in 1967. Snyder hired some ad group or artist or something like that to make a logo. The logo has been alternately described as a puck with a wing or a p with a wing.
  23. EdwardFortyHands

    EdwardFortyHands Initiate (0) May 3, 2012 Iowa

    Cool, I'm def an original six fan due to my blackhawks allegiance.

    What area of economics do you work in, I will soon be in that field...

    Ya i've worked at both the BOT and the BOE...

    The point is that in the economic sense a commodity like beer does not need to be quoted because; the process of price discovery and the market for it's exchange is relatively robust (when you go to the store you can see the price of beer its quoted in dollars and you can buy it and take it home from any vendor you like. Wal-mart's Miller Light is the same as Costco's. The reason we needed the CBOT is because there was no good way to determine grain prices back in the two previous centuries and there was no way to tell if Joe's Wheat made better bread than Jane's wheat).... Anyways the argument is not over how to bring beer to market, because there is no need for that really, the argument is "should there be a secondary market where rare beers can be exchanged freely" and what is the best way to do that.

    ...If you want an example of how a regulated marketplace has been a boon for a type of festy beverage check out the story of Bordeaux's En Primeur System. As for now I buy all my wines in secondary market auctions from The Chicago Wine Company TCWC.com....Perhaps this is a business model one should follow, if they do and do it only for rare beers I think they stand to make a small fortune,,, and anyone who can show me a business plan will surely get an investment.
  24. RandomName7

    RandomName7 Initiate (0) Feb 22, 2012 Washington

    I would just like to point out that sometimes stuff comes up and you just don't have a chance respond as fast as some people would like you to. And in some of those situations the person who responded slowly will do what they can to make up for it with extras.

    GuisseppeFranco likes this.
  25. GuisseppeFranco

    GuisseppeFranco Aspirant (214) Nov 7, 2010 New York
    Beer Trader

    In the instance I was referring to, it was each time a message was sent it took days to get a reply. After a few times of that I was done.

    I was also replying to his ISO. If you don't have time to reply to messages, should you really be starting an ISO?

    Oh and the extra you sent was delicious! Tyvm.
    maximum12 likes this.
  26. Exiled

    Exiled Zealot (505) May 30, 2009 Texas
    Beer Trader

    Whats wrong, cant trust someone who bleeds for 7 days & nights every month, and still survives? lol
    thagr81us likes this.
  27. mikecharley

    mikecharley Disciple (398) Nov 6, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    JOJO much?
    domtronzero and Levitation like this.
  28. Jparkanzky

    Jparkanzky Initiate (0) Apr 5, 2011 Ohio

    When someone feels the need to comment on every trade they think is fair:

    "That's a fair offer"

    "This should get done"

    "Good deal for both sides"

  29. DavidEddie

    DavidEddie Initiate (0) Jul 12, 2006 Illinois

    "Sometimes that shark he looks right into ya. Right into your eyes. And, you know, the thing about a shark... he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be living... until he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then... ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin'. The ocean turns red, and despite all the poundin' and the hollerin', they all come in and they... rip you to pieces."

    Moral of the story...............................Don't trade with sharks.
    ThreeFishes and MarkIntihar like this.
  30. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,448) Dec 2, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    i buzzedly wrote this in a ISO: WWS vintages, FT: some BA beer (can't remember which... parabola?) thread. was just happy to see DFH get some love on BA. acronyms.

    agreed though, 99% of the time it's terrible. maybe even 100%, but i regret nothing.
    Jparkanzky likes this.
  31. Jeffo

    Jeffo Poo-Bah (2,601) Sep 7, 2008 Netherlands

    I trade from overseas, so my perspective is perhaps different.

    The guys who tell me that they should get to rip me off because they have to ship internationally can suck my balls. Where am I shipping to? Arnhem?

    Otherwise, people with lousy response time. And those who address me as "sir."

    pschul4 likes this.
  32. Prospero

    Prospero Savant (921) Jul 27, 2010 Colorado
    Beer Trader

    ISO: Pliny the Younger
  33. csano

    csano Initiate (0) Sep 21, 2010 Washington

    I'd be more suspicious if it was a FT: Pliny the Younger.
    cavedave, GrumpyOldTroll and Prospero like this.
  34. ficklenicholas

    ficklenicholas Initiate (115) Jul 26, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    "Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies. Farewell and Adieu to you ladies of spain. For we've received orders to sail back to Boston. And so no more shall we see you again..."
  35. CWBlues

    CWBlues Aspirant (258) May 4, 2011 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    There was that one dude a month or so ago that had "friends in high places" that was trading a Younger. Wonder if that ever got done...
    pmoney and MarkIntihar like this.
  36. bugdoc

    bugdoc Aspirant (205) Apr 4, 2011 California
    Beer Trader

    FT: Hand-bottled 3-month-old PtY - yum.
  37. Etan

    Etan Initiate (0) Jul 11, 2011 Wisconsin

    He was revealed quite quickly to be a scammer who had ripped people off in trades and on Ebay before. Funny thread...
  38. mikeincharleston

    mikeincharleston Defender (643) May 1, 2009 North Carolina
    Beer Trader

    i just had a red flag situation, just all came together today. so the first was days in between communication which has been mentioned, but here is a giant red flag. he has no references and i said give me some or you send first. he says he just hasn't put them down since the site changed over but check out this person. so i search and find a thread about how he ripped some people off and i look and the guy he gave me as a reference is on the bad trader list. do you really think i wasn't going to check it out?
    GrumpyOldTroll, cavedave and Photekut like this.
  39. Pahn

    Pahn Meyvn (1,448) Dec 2, 2009 New York
    Beer Trader

    hopefully the guy he listed as a reference is actually an alias of his own.
  40. Spider889

    Spider889 Meyvn (1,044) Mar 24, 2010 Ohio
    Beer Trader

    Who is an alias of someone already banned before, who was also an alias for the only retailer in the country that can get bottles of Younger. Which means that it's worth the risk of trading with him!
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