Unexplained phenomena

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by LarryV, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. hottenot

    hottenot Aspirant (299) Aug 13, 2018 North Carolina
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  2. joelwlcx

    joelwlcx Aspirant (222) Apr 23, 2007 Minnesota

    That is irrelevant. The one making the supernatural claim has the burden of proof. No one is required to consider the possibility of such a claim, let alone take it seriously, just because they haven't proved it wrong.
     
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  3. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,247) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    Science is based on observed phenomena. If there are things that have been observed and not explained (the literal topic of the thread) than simply saying "can't happen cause its not in our model" isn't science, that's called faith
     
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  4. joelwlcx

    joelwlcx Aspirant (222) Apr 23, 2007 Minnesota

    No, science is about creating a model that can produce predictable and useful results. Saying “science doesn’t explain this (YET- key word), therefore magic)” is the opposite of science.

    If we chalk up every “unexplained phenomena” on the supernatural/paranormal, then science is pointless because magic would be the answer for everything, and producing predictable, useful results becomes impossible.
     
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  5. hottenot

    hottenot Aspirant (299) Aug 13, 2018 North Carolina
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    No and that is the point of research.

    No scientist that is real would ever make such a claim.

    And neither do I.

    But I am an ardent believer in Occams Razor.

    Simple.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor
     
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  6. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,247) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    If you support the advancement of science, how can you have no need for unexplained stuff? what is the advancement of science if not the explaining of the unexplained stuff?
    No one except your straw man is saying 'science doesn't explain this therefor magic'.

    The creation of your predictive models relies on observation, observation is central to science. Whether it is observation of the results of an experiment or observation of phenomena in the real world, there is no functional science without a set of observations that one seeks to explain.
     
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  7. joelwlcx

    joelwlcx Aspirant (222) Apr 23, 2007 Minnesota

    Speaking of science, what about skepticism, and critical thinking?

    Seeing pretty lights in the sky, or strange reflections of a window, and then thinking “Ooh! I don’t know what THAT is!” is far from a scientific observation.

    Science is fueled by mystery, yes, but satisfying every drunken knucklehead’s inquiry on what that funny light they saw that one night is low hanging fucking fruit... if even worth looking into at all... if not just laughing at instead. Like I said, scientists love a good mystery, but they also know when not to waste their own time.
     
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  8. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,247) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    If you think that is the meat of unexplained aerial phenomenon then no wonder you scoff. Your straw man is a preposterous person indeed, sounds like a mildly amusing local drunk
     
  9. hottenot

    hottenot Aspirant (299) Aug 13, 2018 North Carolina
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    Why?
     
  10. hottenot

    hottenot Aspirant (299) Aug 13, 2018 North Carolina
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    Huh?
     
  11. hottenot

    hottenot Aspirant (299) Aug 13, 2018 North Carolina
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    Confused about logic?
     
  12. GOBLIN

    GOBLIN Meyvn (1,198) Mar 3, 2013 Ohio
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    Your post in my opinion just has an unneeded tone of arrogance to it and did not add anything to the thread. I do not admire the general overall feel that you have it all figured out. You believe in science and that religion is bunk ... great good for you ... no problem. My problem with your post was you had nothing to add in terms of unexplained phenomena and simply wrote everyone else's off. There is an infinite number of beliefs and experiences in every corner of human history. You sir do not have the patent on truth. I do not intend to argue with you. I simply think that your post was unnecessarily rude. Cheers
     
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  13. joelwlcx

    joelwlcx Aspirant (222) Apr 23, 2007 Minnesota

    I should probably point out, most of these "unexplained phenomena" actually have scientific explanations:
    Moving lights/glare on a video screen are common, and can be explained by dirty lenses, for example;

    Feeling cobwebs that "aren't there", or are invisible when you try to wipe them off can be explained as being actively used spider webs, which are typically invisible to the naked eye, unless light is shining on them or whatever. Either that, or you just got a random itch that only FEELS like cobwebs;

    Seeing faces on gravestones (or a piece of toast, or in clouds, etc...) is also very common. It's actually a function of the brain that serves to recognize (real) faces;

    Lights in the sky moving in "unnatural" ways... This one is more tricky, but it could just be a airplane turning, but is so for away, it's too difficult to notice. Or it's a REALLY fast jet, moving in a straight line, but only looks like it changed directions due to the coriolis effect. EDIT: I guess the airplane went to opposite direction... So... Helicopter?

    Also, one must always consider the power of suggestion, hallucinations, or illusions.
     
    #53 joelwlcx, Mar 12, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
  14. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,247) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    If a person thinks that
    this is what people are talking about when they talk about unidentified aerial phenomena than it is no wonder to me that they would scoff at the idea. They clearly aren't informed about what is being seen and by whom. For instance, I would think more along the lines of this, and the countless cases like it around the world over the decades.
    For the record, my suspicion is that most of these improbable vehicles are human in origin and just come out of deeply classified military programs around the world. But I don't know and I don't claim to know. And no one is offering any proof of any particular hypothesis beyond speculation and inference. Therefor, strange aerial craft would seem to qualify as "unexplained phenomena".

    And your straw man, who keeps saying things like
    is amusing but isn't actually explaining anything other than a personal unwillingness to examine something outside of their reality model.
     
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  15. hottenot

    hottenot Aspirant (299) Aug 13, 2018 North Carolina
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    There is a big difference between unknown things like ESP, Telekinesis, and Alien Abduction, and unknowns such as the research for nuclear fusion. Right?
     
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  16. JrGtr

    JrGtr Devotee (412) Apr 13, 2006 Massachusetts

    Interesting conversation -
    I'm fascinated by the supernatural, but being a cynic, I don't know that I believe in all of it.
    Like ghosts - again, fascinated (I'm watching a DVR'd episode of Ghost Adventures as I type this. I think that 95% plus of any "experiences" are explainable by animals, shadows / tricks of our eyes, or just settling of old buildings. However, it's that last few percent that have no rational explanation. I don't really thing that it's the soul, or spirit, or essence of Great Aunt Edna coming back to check on how their family is doing, but there is something I can't explain.
    For instance, I lived in a house my now-wife inherited from her mother, who had passed away, and her grandfather, also passed, live upstairs. One time, we were there, in our room, and in the next room we both heard footsteps, and the glass in the china cabinet jingling. We were the only ones in the house at the time so, I don't know what to think.
    Same with Aliens / UFOs. 95%+ are stars, satellites, planes, etc, but it's those last few percent...
    In a universe as big as it is, or even the galaxy, the chances this is the only planet among 'billions and billions of stars' capable of supporting life seems remote. Other life may not be recognizable to us, and any other life bearing planets probably range from microscopic, single 'celled' life, to civilizations with technology far superior to ours - possibly even capable of interstellar travel. Now, assuming there is a limited number of space-faring races (ignoring the 'in and infinite number of worlds, etc...[lets go with the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy quote about how not every system is capable of life, so there's a finite number of life bearing worlds, and infinity divided by any number is so close to zero as to make no difference...) Wehat is the chances they would visit our world, among the enormous number of possibilities? Our technology has only progressed to send signals of any sort out there for under 100 years, so even at the speed of light, it's an awful small diameter to pick up signals if you're travelling though.
     
  17. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,247) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    Of course, nuclear fusion is a physical process that we have a decent idea about who's mysteries remain largely technical, ESP is an ODs phenomena that has been observed in a laboratory setting but hints at a deep blind spot in our grand model, and "alien abduction" is a broad category of phenomena that range from hoaxes through the labrynth of human psychological and psychedelic experience, from interaction with what are likely human technologies of deception to interaction with entities of indiscernible origin.
    I'm not aware of any reports if telekinesis outside of rumor about various holy personages, so I can't speak to where that falls.
    They are all unexplained phenomena, some of them we are very overtly and actively seeking answers to/about and others are ignored in the mainstream of culture and only explored on the margins and in the shadows.
     
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  18. DCH

    DCH Aspirant (214) Jun 12, 2013 New York

    August 2006, standing in my parent's front yard after getting home from work at around 10pm, and we're looking up in the sky at what we thought was a shooting star. NOPE! It stops, does a horizontal figure 8 and shoots straight up into space. I've never seen anything move that fast and I doubt I ever will again. I can still remember feeling so small in that moment. Pretty sure my dad is still pretending that it never happened.:sunglasses:
     
  19. pjbear05

    pjbear05 Initiate (117) May 28, 2008 Florida

    While on vacation in Sedona I'm walking around near a turnout in Boynton Canyon when I sense the presence of something or someone near me, like a guide. The wife is out of sight over a hundred yards away, no one else audible or visible for miles. As I got nearer to our rental car "the presence" as I refer to it, disappeared. I've never been back to the area, sure would like to in my waning time.
     
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  20. hottenot

    hottenot Aspirant (299) Aug 13, 2018 North Carolina
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    Who watches the watcher?
    That's just something I can't explain.
     
  21. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,247) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    Lots of weird energy out in those mountains. The southwest is pockmarked with these places that have deeply eery vibes about them
     
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  22. Singlefinpin

    Singlefinpin Devotee (489) Jul 17, 2018 North Carolina
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    They got me hypnotized
    Now it's not a meaningless question
    To ask if they've been and gone
    I remember a talk about North Carolina
    And a strange, strange pond
    You see the sides were like glass
    In the thick of a forest without a road
    And if any man's hand ever made that land
    Then I think it would've showed
    That's why it seems like a dream
    Got me hypnotized
    And I know that's right
    Hypnotized, Fleetwood Mac
    I've tried to find this place, but no luck yet.......
     
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  23. unlikelyspiderperson

    unlikelyspiderperson Meyvn (1,247) Mar 12, 2013 California
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    If you're looking for good weirdness in western nc check out this ladies website. She's all about collecting local.accounts of oddities in the sky and has.researched the "little people" lore in the lower Appalachian range (which is where I heard about her, that stuff fascinates me)
     
  24. meanmutt

    meanmutt Savant (935) Feb 6, 2012 Ohio
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    A weird thing happened with my mother-in-law's iPhone a few years ago.

    She woke up one morning and was messing with her phone and noticed an odd photo was the most recent in her gallery. The image was sort of faint, but easily visible. It was in black and white and was a man that appeared to be reaching out towards the phone as if he was trying to block the picture from being taken.

    He looked sort of like my wife's uncle (who's still alive) but no one knew who this man could be. The man was wearing old timey clothes (maybe 1800's style).

    Searching on the phone, there was no timestamp on the picture or any trace of how it could have got on her phone.

    She took the phone to an Apple store and had them try to explain how this got on her phone. The techs could not explain where the image came from or how it got on the phone.