Site Unrated Hads

Discussion in 'Support & Suggestions' started by gillagorilla, Jun 24, 2013.

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  1. gillagorilla

    gillagorilla Meyvn (1,250) Feb 27, 2013 Maryland
    Beer Trader

    I understand hads and they are nice for what they are but I feel could prove even more useful. This past weekend I had a bunch of exceptionally rare beers (at least for me) and I jotted down a few notes but I don't think I will list them as a rated had, but would still like to have them up on my account so I can remember exactly what I had on here.

    I think it would be useful to have an option in the hads, for just that, that you've had the beer. There would be no ranking attached and no effect on the data associated with the beer. You could have the total reviews+hads number and then in parentheses the number minus unranked hads. You could also have the unranked hads number in parentheses next to the hads. This would be useful for people to just simply list beers they have had without fear of attaching a number to it. There are a number of beers that I've had before I started reviewing and ranking them, that I would like to add so that I don't get them as extras in a trade. This would be useful for people that do a lot of sampling and a lot of trading.
  2. bleakies

    bleakies Disciple (380) Apr 11, 2011 Massachusetts

    Or you could just make your own list of beers you've had that isn't dependent on this site for hosting.
  3. stealth

    stealth Zealot (507) Dec 16, 2011 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

  4. Ivegotmule

    Ivegotmule Initiate (0) Nov 7, 2012 North Carolina

    Untappd doesn't require a rating.
  5. gillagorilla

    gillagorilla Meyvn (1,250) Feb 27, 2013 Maryland
    Beer Trader

    Yeah, I guess I could just use untappd, but they are really all about live updating of when you had the beer? I guess the date doesn't matter too much to me. I already have my own list, but I don't carry it with me everywhere (its not online).
  6. Ri0

    Ri0 Poo-Bah (2,474) Jul 1, 2012 Wisconsin
    Beer Trader

    You could keep them in Google Docs as well for access anywhere.
    BrettHead likes this.
  7. olfolxholme

    olfolxholme Initiate (0) Feb 13, 2011 California

    I agree with the OP.

    Yes, you could use Google or Untappd. But, it would be nice if you could also use Beer Advocate.
    Theniz and gillagorilla like this.
  8. Ivegotmule

    Ivegotmule Initiate (0) Nov 7, 2012 North Carolina

    Sure untappd is all about social and when you had it and badges, whatever. But who cares? If you don't add any friends no one will see it but you! Making it a perfect ticker with a smartphone app.
    BrettHead and Eastside151 like this.
  9. HisBoyElroy

    HisBoyElroy Initiate (0) Mar 4, 2013 Michigan

    Or just give them a rating.
  10. jdhowe

    jdhowe Disciple (368) Mar 18, 2013 Georgia
    Beer Trader

    I agree with OP.

    I like having a central hub for beer information, and for me BeerAdvocate fits that nicely with few exceptions, one of which is unrated hads not being an option. I'd like to be able to tick some of the things I got to taste but didn't really get a great sense of, can't remember perfectly, didn't take notes on, had a long time ago, or wasn't experiencing particularly critically. Sure, I could use Untappd for that, but I'd like to be able to use BeerAdvocate, and BeerAdvocate should want me to be able to use it.

    If I'm trading, I'd like my partners to be able to see a full list of the things I have had so that I am not sent beers I've already enjoyed without having to refer them to another website or having to rate each beer (particularly if I'm not comfortable with my ability to deliver a fair rating to that beer). I love to contribute reviews or rated hads when I have the option, but honestly would like to be able to just mark some beers as "hey, don't send me this one since I've had it before" or "note to self, you've already tried this."
    olfolxholme and gillagorilla like this.
  11. gillagorilla

    gillagorilla Meyvn (1,250) Feb 27, 2013 Maryland
    Beer Trader

    You said it much better than I did. Thanks man.
    jdhowe likes this.
  12. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,245) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    You've nicely listed some of the things you'd like to have for your own purposes, but you don't cover why "...Beer Advocate should want me to do it." Why should BA want you to do it?

    Or, alternatively, what benefit does giving you the ability to simply tick beers off your list have for the rest of us who are here on a consumer oriented site wanting to learn more about beer and where we might want to put our money spent on beer?
    devilben02 likes this.
  13. jdhowe

    jdhowe Disciple (368) Mar 18, 2013 Georgia
    Beer Trader

    I didn't think this needed justification.

    The more useful Beer Advocate is and the more versatile its services, the less likely users are to choose another website over them, and the more money they make off of advertising or other sold services and goods. If Beer Advocate's offerings are strictly superior to those of other websites, they in theory gain more traffic because more people will choose to utilize them over other options in the marketplace. In the case above, users are choosing to not document beers that they have had here due to not wanting to rate the beer for any of a variety of reasons. This leaves a gap between what Beer Advocate represents them as having had and what they know they have had, and if they want others to have access to that information, they are stuck either providing ratings here or going elsewhere to meet that need. As a rational actor in business, Beer Advocate should work to prevent that from happening, so long as the consequences associated with keeping those users' collective traffic do not cost more than they gain from the increased business.

    That last bit is the tricky open question about all of this. As Beer Advocates, we should want to represent to the best of our ability the beers we've had and our opinions on them so that others might utilize that information to make informed choices. If all Beer Advocates act according to this rule, there is no downside to adding unrated hads aside from the cost of coding that into the website, which is a one-time cost. If, however, the introduction of unrated hads leads to a drop-off in the amount of information generated by Beer Advocate's users (presumably by laziness), then we get into the question of whether that lost information had a higher value than the increased market share. It further gets complicated if you think that the unrated hads "fix" increases the accuracy of ratings due to people not feeling compelled to rate beers while somewhat uncomfortable with the rating just for "ticking" purposes.

    The problem is tough and multidimensional, imo, and probably can't be solved so easily as tested by seeing what happens when unrated hads are implemented.

    tl;dr: unrated hads likely will result in increased digital audience for Beer Advocate over competitors, or at least increased time on Beer Advocate over other online resources. Potential gains include market share, accuracy of ratings. Potential costs are coding/capital costs, reduction of amount of data produced. Uncertainties remain as to the quality of the data that would be lost -- would someone who puts up an unrated had really have put up a thoughtful rating or rated had?
  14. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,245) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    As I'd hoped a well articulated line of argument which also surfaces the hidden assumptions.

    It seems to me the key assumption around which the discussion revolves is one you've identified quite nicely. That is, will unrated hads increase the quality of ratings and reviews, since that is the basic value added by this site. (And why many BAs often express a preference for this site over the other rating sites.)

    I think the question of market share and revenue from ads and traffic to the site can be set aside if only because many companies are beginning to recognize that advertising on high traffic sites doesn't automatically lead to increased sales and are pulling back from that approach (e.g., many advertisers have publicly announced they've given up on Facebook because of lack of demonstrable yield). In addition, increasingly there are bits of add on software that suppress or prevent display of ads and/or user tracking on the web.

    But in any case you and I are in complete agreement on the idea that a key issue is whether or not unrated hads will improve the value of ratings and reviews. And since they will in no way be figured into the statistics generated about beers it depends upon whether users of unrated hads are more likely to do quality reviews/ratings given the opportunity. A wide open question indeed.
  15. UCLABrewN84

    UCLABrewN84 Poo-Bah (12,204) Mar 18, 2010 California

    Dear BA, please turn into Microsoft Word.
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