Updates to the BA Score, Rankings, and Top Rated Beers

Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Jul 22, 2019.

  1. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,981) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    Update: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/updates-to-the-top-rated-beers-part-two.619559/
     
    MJSFS, FBarber, jhavs and 5 others like this.
  2. JLK7299

    JLK7299 Meyvn (1,075) Apr 21, 2016 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    THANKS!!!!!!
     
    AlcahueteJ and Todd like this.
  3. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,562) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    Of course, you then immediately added those beer to BA, right?
     
    officerbill and Bitterbill like this.
  4. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Poo-Bah (6,833) Sep 14, 2002 Wyoming
    Society Trader

    Yes. If I found out that something was wrong with the entry, I could always use the suggest an edit function.
     
    beertunes likes this.
  5. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,981) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    It shares a line with ABV now. I hope you CAN deal with that.
     
  6. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,981) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    Update: I've reverted the text range to what it was prior to switching to 1-5.

    https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/beeradvocate-ratings-explained.184726/
     
    FBarber, AlcahueteJ and Phoodcritic like this.
  7. The-Adjunct-Hippie

    The-Adjunct-Hippie Poo-Bah (4,027) May 12, 2014 South Dakota
    Trader

    I don't consider myself to be an exceptionally longtime member, but I've seen so many gosh-darn changes to the ratings system it's almost hard to take it seriously anymore. I guess I look at it and think, "meh, it'll be different next year"

    I do miss the overall ratings for beers with under 10 reviews though. Seeing a "0" is a little weird. Also might throw occasional site crawlers off thinking the beer was worse than toilet water or something...
     
  8. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,981) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    I can understand that, but I look at it more like: stagnation is death.
     
    MJSFS, officerbill, FBarber and 4 others like this.
  9. thatoneguymike

    thatoneguymike Meyvn (1,133) Sep 18, 2012 Georgia
    Trader

    I too would like to keep up the 'new' as well as the 'old' top 250 and top 250 new list
     
    Todd likes this.
  10. donspublic

    donspublic Poo-Bah (1,782) Aug 4, 2014 Texas
    Society Trader

    Ok, like the trending addition to the top beers. Having fun with the analytics are we :slight_smile:. Keep it up
     
    Todd likes this.
  11. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Meyvn (1,087) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts

    How many people are going to go back after five years and re-review EVERY SINGLE beer they've reviewed on this site?

    Because a beer legitimately might change, for many reasons I've already stated. Brewer's leave, recipes change, breweries scale up which causes changes...etc.

    For example, the recipe for Prima Pils ACTUALLY changed recently...Victory announced this.

    The recipe for Sam Summer JUST changed...again, the brewery announced this.

    Those old reviews are now actually for a different beer under the same name.

    Wow, I think you just set the record for most quotes in a post!

    Also, see @hopley , the sky isn't falling, the initial changes weren't permanent. :wink:

    This assumes everyone on Untappd is on Beeradvocate. Many people aren't.

    I've been here since 2004. I understand this sentiment, and I've felt the same way at times, but overall it's a good thing in my opinion.
     
  12. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,981) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    Top Rated New Beers is back.
     
  13. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (2,195) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

    Thanks for changing that, however, I noticed that if a beer is retired, that status will still show up in the notes instead of the availability field, which will still show the original availability for the beer. My thought is that the retired status should probably appear in the availability field instead.
     
    officerbill and Todd like this.
  14. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,562) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    Then rather than delete (or, remove from calculations) the old reviews, the right thing to do is to suggest an edit to the beer to create a separate entry.

    See, for example:
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/417/248380/
    https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/417/399686/
    Well, it might if I was responding on Untapped (hint: I wasn't! :grin::grin::wink:)
     
    FBarber and AlcahueteJ like this.
  15. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,981) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    I like the idea of adding the retired text to Availability. Done! Much cleaner and more intuitive. :+1:
     
    meefmoff, MJSFS, officerbill and 3 others like this.
  16. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (2,195) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Society Trader

    Looks much better, thanks!
     
    FBarber and Todd like this.
  17. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,981) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    Agreed. We're displaying no BA Score as "n/a" now, which ties into the text stating that more ratings are needed.
     
    FBarber and AlcahueteJ like this.
  18. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,562) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    @Todd ... too lazy to go back and "like" all of your recent posts, but thanks!

    IMO, the recent changes as a whole are an improvement.
     
    meefmoff, MJSFS, officerbill and 5 others like this.
  19. paulish

    paulish Poo-Bah (1,848) Feb 2, 2014 New York
    Society Trader

    @Todd BeerAdvocate - where good beer and math meet! Thank you! Good job!
     
  20. woodychandler

    woodychandler Poo-Bah (9,963) Apr 9, 2004 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    :grin: I CAN! Thanks for the response & amendment. :grin:
     
    Todd likes this.
  21. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Meyvn (1,087) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts

    Ah, fair enough.

    Still wouldn't address the other changes I mentioned. Another example is locally, the head brewer at John Harvard's in Framingham left to start his own brewery. The IPA apparently (just going off of what others have said) took a nose dive after that.

    But, I think at this point I'll just agree to disagree about kicking out old reviews.

    Ohh, you weren't?! :wink:

    I know, that wasn't my point, and I likely did a poor job of explaining it. I just meant more people are on Untappd, so while it's nice one person saw a new beer on Untappd that's a member here, there's many many more that won't add their reviews on here because they're not members.
     
    officerbill likes this.
  22. fthegiants

    fthegiants Poo-Bah (1,571) Nov 20, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Thanks for listening to us... I am so happy, i just renewed my membership.


    Cheers
     
    AlcahueteJ, MJSFS and Todd like this.
  23. officerbill

    officerbill Disciple (347) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Society

    No less valid to you personally. That review reflects your opinion at that time and, yes, it can be very useful for you, for data analysis, and to check consistency (useful for beers with yearly “vintages”). Realistically though, just how useful is a ten year old review to someone wanting to see if a particular beer is worth buying this afternoon?

    I'm not advocating getting rid of our hiding older ratings and reviews, just not including those numbers when a calculating a beer's current score.
     
    rightcoast7 and AlcahueteJ like this.
  24. fthegiants

    fthegiants Poo-Bah (1,571) Nov 20, 2013 California
    Society Trader

    Not to get greedy or anything, but how about adding top 250 or 100 greatest retired beers?
     
    MJSFS likes this.
  25. officerbill

    officerbill Disciple (347) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Society

    Yes, I am saying that and I'm fully aware that my reviews, posts, and knowledge are miniscule compared to some of the people here.

    A new beer will get a hype boost, but that will tend to level out after the hype is over and realistic reviews start getting averaged in, eventually those hype reviews will age out.
    When a five year old 4.0 ages out it gets replaced by a new 4.0 (if that's what the beer still deserves).
    If you're concerned that your score isn't included, just buy one every few years and do a one line edit.
    If, for some reason, you're unable to buy that beer again how do you know it still deserves the score you gave (I grant that it may still merit that score, but how do you know)?

    I'm not suggesting that the reviews be deleted, they would still be there for anyone who is interested, just that the old scores not be included in current rankings.

    If I'm making a flawed argument please point out where my error is. You obviously see problems with this that I don't. So where is the harm in requiring a rating to be relatively current in order to be used in calculating current rankings?
     
    rightcoast7 likes this.
  26. officerbill

    officerbill Disciple (347) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Society

    There are a few styles that I just don't care for that's why I just don't rate them.

    I guess it comes down to how you see the reviews & ratings. Are they a way to keep track of whether or not you personally liked or disliked a particular beer, or are they a way to describe for others whether or not a beer is a good example of a particular style.
     
  27. officerbill

    officerbill Disciple (347) Feb 9, 2019 New York
    Society

    Yes, I agree that what a person tastes and reports is what a person tastes and reports. That report should never be deleted or hidden.
    I'm asking if the score based on that taste and report years ago is still relevant to a ranking today?

    If a person doesn't update their review (“still just as good as it was three years ago”) every few years the score ages out of consideration in the rankings.
    The review and score doesn't get deleted or hidden, just no longer used in current rankings.
     
    drtth likes this.
  28. gcamparone

    gcamparone Poo-Bah (1,912) Dec 6, 2011 Rhode Island
    Society Trader

    Just want to comment that the top 250 appears to be a similar algorithm as it was before it was changed a few months back.

    I was working with two buddies to try tackle the entire list and after 2 years and a lot of $$$, one of us was at ~215, the other at 243, and I was at 235. We gave up and disbanded when you guys changed the algorithm and we all lost 20-30 beers each.

    I knew of at least 3 other people on the same mission who quit too. I guess the point is that "the list" isn't the only thing affected when you change the algorithm. Perhaps we'll get back into our mission and hope nothing changes too drastically in the near future.
     
    Todd likes this.
  29. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,981) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    Correct. Based on feedback from a while back, it's been reverted to an algorithm that's similar to how it was prior to the update that you're referring to.
     
    JLK7299 and MJSFS like this.
  30. stevepat

    stevepat Crusader (772) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Trader

    Probably close to zero, all that I'm suggesting is that making it an option to add one counted score every two years (for instance, there could be a better limit) for any individual beer would allow people who are inclined to revisit beers to add their new assessment of the beer without eliminating their original assessment. This would avoid the problems of discounting older reviews while allowing committed raters to add updated impressions that take into account any changes in the beer or it's relative appeal in the context of the changing market
     
    officerbill likes this.
  31. craigbelly

    craigbelly Champion (807) Dec 31, 2015 Iowa

    We all have our reasons the be on BA. Looks like the dinosaur BA has become is trying to stay up to date with all the beer tracking apps that a majority of people have become accustomed to and prefer.
     
  32. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,981) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    Nope. We're still doing our own thing.
     
    kuhndog, officerbill and FBarber like this.
  33. JLK7299

    JLK7299 Meyvn (1,075) Apr 21, 2016 North Carolina
    Society Trader

    Never quit!
     
  34. Jacobier10

    Jacobier10 Poo-Bah (2,106) Feb 23, 2004 New Jersey
    Society

    So now I'm buying beer solely for the purpose of feeling obligated to update my review every few years so it doesn't become irrelevant? Come on now.
     
  35. Gkruszewski

    Gkruszewski Poo-Bah (1,832) Nov 1, 2013 New York
    Society Trader

    Thank you guys for reconsidering bringing back the Top 250 list....
     
    AlcahueteJ, MTKATL and Todd like this.
  36. Aglassplease

    Aglassplease Initiate (127) Dec 19, 2015 North Carolina
    Trader

    I love it however,please change member ratings to the same system. It's confusing and a bit ambiguous to look at two types of ratings. I'm guessing you would simply double our rating and add a decimal point. For example a 4.5 rating would become a 90. Thoughts?
     
  37. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,981) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    User scores have, and always will be, 1-5. And the BA Score is also much more complicated than that.
     
  38. MNAle

    MNAle Poo-Bah (1,562) Sep 6, 2011 Minnesota
    Society

    They could arithmetically make the user's rating scale a 100 point system, but that would not equate to their 100 point rating. As @Todd has said, the 100 point system is not an arithmetic mean, whereas the average rating is.
     
    drtth likes this.
  39. agreenman19

    agreenman19 Poo-Bah (1,786) Apr 10, 2011 Connecticut
    Society Trader

    Quick thing: when I submit a review, my score is not immediately displayed. Looks a bit buggy in that it tells me my rDev, but the score area is blank. See pic:

    [​IMG]

    However, once I refresh the page, there's my score in all its glory:

    [​IMG]

    I recall old BA always being a little buggy when you submit a review before you refresh the page, but at least it showed me my score right away. This should be far from the top of any priority list, but I figured I'd throw it out there.
     
    AlcahueteJ likes this.
  40. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,981) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew Society

    I hope to apply a fix for this over the weekend.
     
    AlcahueteJ, agreenman19 and FBarber like this.