Updates to the Top Rated Beers (Part Two)

Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Jul 24, 2019.

  1. johnInLA

    johnInLA Champion (845) Jun 12, 2005 California
    Society


    I would go as far to say 3.61 on a 1-5 scale, is "Good", approaching "Very Good"

    And in my opinion, a 3.92 in a 1-5 scale, is in the "very good." range. I think the only way to call a 3.92 "Not very good at all" is if you are rating on a 3-5 scale. Which is not the rating system used here.

    But I think all this largely misses the point, the new system is taking on style bias. I'm glad to see where a beer stands amongst beers of a similar style. I get that most people these days don't like pilsners as much as Hazy IPAs. But within the Pilsners style, people are still going to rank the ones they like higher then the ones they don't like. A weighed system takes that into account.
     
  2. rodndtube

    rodndtube Devotee (430) Feb 24, 2007 Maryland
    Society

    Just briefly browsed through the new array of settings and ratings and hat's off to a great job. It is a significant undertaking.

    On the Top 250 a few things stick out at a bit odd... in the Top 15 all beers exceeded 8% abv and most were in the 10% or higher range. The other dominant feature through the Top 50 were Imperial Stouts and NEIPAs. One might conclude beers were mostly high alcohol content and distributed around only a couple of styles.

    My expectation of a "normalized" listing of all styles would be a presentation of the tops in each style, that have been normalized within each style, i.e., statistically re-scored into a normal curve within the 1-100 point range. Then I could ask myself, "Am I drinking or at least sampled the best of the best across a range of styles?"

    Again, kudos to a job well done.
     
  3. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (1,852) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Trader

    I don't really get this because Untappd, undeniably the most popular and widely used beer app in the world right now also uses a 1-5 scale. Don't stores and breweries use their ratings all the time in the States?
     
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  4. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Meyvn (1,037) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts

    This is the way it's always been.

    I would love to see this in addition to the current list. What I like about the current list is that it tells me, without style in mind, what people enjoy the most.

    The list you suggest tells me which beers are the most well-made (or something along those lines).

    Honestly, I don't really see any scores posted at the stores anymore. I do see Untappd scores on bar's draft lists online though.
     
  5. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,642) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    I've never seen a store display an Untappd shelftalker. But the industry was using our 100 point shelftalkers for the good part of two decades. We took that away. It was a mistake.
     
  6. meefmoff

    meefmoff Defender (644) Jul 6, 2014 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    People might be thinking of "RateBeer" shelftalkers. I've seen those at a couple of stores in my area. I'll be curious to see if they switch over to BA any time soon.
     
  7. ktr5010

    ktr5010 Disciple (355) Dec 12, 2014 Illinois
    Society Trader

    So the thing about the RateBeer shelftalkers was that there were a ton of beers that were in the 95-100 range that shouldn't have been. There area ton of beers here now that are 100 when the rating changed. IMO saying a beer is a 100 means that it is the best beer in the world or best beer in it's class. Having so many at or near 100 when the 1-5 scale doesn't reflect that dilutes the 100 rating. I can see a beer getting a 100 if it's >4.95 but no beer on the top 250 list achieves that score. I'm sure there is some math that I'm not privy to happening to convert the 1-5 scale to the n-100 scale but it's a tough pill to swallow seeing beers on the list in the 80s through 100s with 4.5 - 4.6 score getting a rating of 100.
     
  8. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (1,852) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Trader

    I'm just curious, but what was the reasoning behind changing it back then? Personally, I liked the old system better, it's more nuanced, but I don't really mind the new scale as long as the old one is kept along with it.
     
  9. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (1,852) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Trader

    My thoughts exactly, however this is obviously just what the industry wants.
     
  10. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,642) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    I wouldn't call under 200 beers out of hundreds of thousands a "ton."
     
  11. ktr5010

    ktr5010 Disciple (355) Dec 12, 2014 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Semantically whatever you want to call it, there are more 100 ratings than reflect the 1-5 scoring system. The math just doesn't seem to add up to me. I'm really not trying to be a pain/troll, but it seems like beers with 4.9, 4.7, and 4.54 ratings all shouldn't be able to have scores of 100 unless beers with >4.xx in a sliver of the distribution automatically get 100. I really appreciate the website, forums, and ratings. They've helped me discover new beers and styles. This page is so freaking cool. I'm of the opinion that 100 rating should be sacred and having too many can dilute that score.
     
    hopley likes this.
  12. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,642) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    Agreed, which is why less than 200 out of nearly 300,000 active beers score a 100 (~0.0666% of the beers). This is thanks to the system that's been put in place.
     
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  13. ktr5010

    ktr5010 Disciple (355) Dec 12, 2014 Illinois
    Society Trader

    Fair. I'll shut up now. :slight_smile:
     
  14. kmathias

    kmathias Initiate (32) Nov 27, 2015 Ohio

    Can a style be added for bourbon barrel stouts? Or barrel aged stouts? So many top rated stouts these days are barrel aged, it’d be nice to have an easy differentiator and ability to see the best of the non-barrel aged stouts as well.

    Cheers!
     
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  15. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Meyvn (1,037) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts

    There’s non-barrel aged stouts still?
     
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  16. TheIPAHunter

    TheIPAHunter Poo-Bah (2,000) Aug 12, 2007 Pennsylvania
    Society Trader

    This is like Shook Ones Pt. 2. Even better than the original! Cheers!!!
     
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  17. Snowcrash000

    Snowcrash000 Poo-Bah (1,852) Oct 4, 2017 Germany
    Moderator Trader

    Interesting, I see Untappd scores used a lot on European online stores.
     
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  18. meefmoff

    meefmoff Defender (644) Jul 6, 2014 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    Sure! They just have ground up barrels in them.
     
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  19. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Meyvn (1,037) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts

    Ha, I'm actually not sure if you're kidding or not. Because brewing with oak chips is a thing.
     
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  20. bbtkd

    bbtkd Poo-Bah (2,551) Sep 20, 2015 South Dakota
    Society Trader

    Please no, just no. I live for BA beers but the last thing we need is another "dimension" to styles. Then we'll have Stout, Imperial Stout, Milk Stout, BA Stout, BA Imperial Stout, BA Milk Stout, etc, etc. And that's only until someone suggests that we need to distinguish between oak, bourbon, rum, tequila, wine, amburana, etc barrel aging. Then we may as well have a style for each beer.
     
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  21. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (6,083) Sep 24, 2007 Northern Mariana Islands
    Trader

    Yeah, they're for folks who actually like Stouts.
     
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  22. meefmoff

    meefmoff Defender (644) Jul 6, 2014 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    Chips are for chumps. 6 staves of fine ground barrel per bottle is the only way to fly.
     
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  23. zid

    zid Meyvn (1,310) Feb 15, 2010 New York
    Society Trader

    I’m not saying I’m for or against it, but you’re getting ahead of yourself. There could simply be a single “barrel aged porter/stout” category that includes everything that’s a barrel aged porter/stout. It wouldn’t make everyone happy but it could work well enough.
     
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  24. cavedave

    cavedave Poo-Bah (2,595) Mar 12, 2009 New York
    Trader

    Eventually some folks would complain that a separate style name for every beer made wouldn't distinguish well enough one batch of that beer from another batch of that same beer.
     
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  25. stevepat

    stevepat Defender (688) Mar 12, 2013 California
    Trader

    Not a major problem, but I have noticed that when I add a review I just get the loading symbol up in the corner and the review doesn't get recorded until I close the page and reopen. It's not a major problem but it might be something in the underlying code or something (you know, I too am something of a computer scientist) and I figured it's worth letting you know
     
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  26. AlcahueteJ

    AlcahueteJ Meyvn (1,037) Dec 4, 2004 Massachusetts

    I feel like there's a Black Mirror episode in there somewhere.
     
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  27. seakayak

    seakayak Defender (648) May 20, 2007 Massachusetts
    Society

    @Todd, you're knocking everyone's socks off with these fantastic new updates. Would you also please consider breaking down ratings by Brewery along with Styles, Countries, and US States?
     
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  28. Harrison8

    Harrison8 Poo-Bah (3,478) Dec 6, 2015 Missouri
    Society Trader

    I don't see them as distinct styles, but I don't see why we can't add additional 'strength' and 'barrel' tabs to a beer's profile, ex:

    Beer listed under "Stout" categories with any combo of the following tabs selected "imperial" and "barrel aged". We could even add an additional tag with the barrel type(s).

    It does not change the style listing of the beer but does provide users with additional filters for the lists. Frankly, these descriptor tags could be used to simplify a lot of the site's styles. Barleywines could be kept under one header and then filter by 'American' or 'English' and/or 'Barrel-Aged'. IPAs could be given different strength tabs such as 'Single', 'Double' and 'Triple'.

    Of course, the downsides would be more information is needed to add a beer to the database, and potentially more requests for change being sent to moderators. As benefits, it could slim down the database's style list will adding additional functionality.

    Is the database setup to handle filter tabs like this, @Todd ?
     
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  29. Harrison8

    Harrison8 Poo-Bah (3,478) Dec 6, 2015 Missouri
    Society Trader

    You mean like listing vintages :thinking_face:

    But I don't think this is a place for that. If anything, it would be nice if BA added some sort of 'tab' where you list the vintage in the rating/review score line. Users could then sort by specific vintage years if they are so inclined.
     
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  30. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,642) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    Sure. I'll consider it.
     
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  31. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,642) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    Not at this time, but it's something we've considered.
     
  32. Roguer

    Roguer Poo-Bah (4,226) Mar 25, 2013 Georgia
    Moderator Society Trader

    This really looks like the best of both worlds! The Beers of Fame and Top 250 are classics and fun. Ranking by style is perhaps more relevant to reflect a beer's actual quality. Having both? Perfect!
     
  33. drtth

    drtth Poo-Bah (3,933) Nov 25, 2007 Pennsylvania

    What’s nicest is that we always did have both, but now those rankings by style are located all together with the other rankings in a shared “best of” space.

    Also, navigating between certain kinds of related kinds of information has become more network like and less hierarchical.
     
    #73 drtth, Jul 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
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  34. mig100

    mig100 Meyvn (1,358) Aug 3, 2014 Texas
    Society Trader

    Loving the changes.

    Just wanted to report that when rating a beer or rather changing a rating, the "Yours" score doesn't change, you have to leave or refresh the page to see the changes.
     
    Todd likes this.
  35. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (6,083) Sep 24, 2007 Northern Mariana Islands
    Trader

    It's been like that for quite a while. After I enter my review, I just hit refresh, and everything is fine, and the number on list goes up.
     
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  36. beertunes

    beertunes Poo-Bah (6,083) Sep 24, 2007 Northern Mariana Islands
    Trader

    Yup, see my reply to Stevepat, just above. Been like quite a while.
     
    mig100 likes this.
  37. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,642) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    @Mike and I are looking into this.
    I hope to apply a fix for this over the weekend.
     
  38. hopley

    hopley Meyvn (1,335) Feb 24, 2010 Massachusetts
    Society Trader

    I've been getting this too. Another small small thing not related to this forum - when looking at a brewery's beers on an iPhone, the page used to default to Table view, now it defaults to List view. For practical purposes of quickly scrolling through a brewery's beers, I prefer the Table view - is there a way to default it back to this?
     
  39. Todd

    Todd Founder (5,642) Aug 23, 1996 California
    Staff Moderator Fest Crew

    Odd, and there's no separate default for iOS. It's always defaulted to the list view on mobile/smaller screens and table on desktop/larger screens. Nothing has changed on our end that would impact this.
     
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  40. TheGent

    TheGent Poo-Bah (1,919) Jun 29, 2010 New Jersey
    Society Trader

    Awesome changes. Thanks!
     
    Todd likes this.