Water Chemistry and Extract Brewing

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by pweis909, Oct 24, 2012.

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  1. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,238) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    What assumptions should one make about the ion content of extract beers? What rules of thumb should be followed? I know when I started thinking about brewing beer a few years back, the advice was not to worry about water chemistry, but I feel like that advice only applies to the chemistry adjustments made out of mash considerations and not necessarily out of other considerations. Obviously, extract has been mashed, so pH adjustments are probably not critical. But what about other aspects of water chemistry that influence fermentation and flavor profiles? Calcium to help the yeast floc, sulfate to chloride ratio to influence bitterness/maltyness? I often adjust my chemistry for all grain beers but am stumped about what to do with extact, having no knowledge of the ion content of the extract.
     
  2. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,313) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah

    Hop utilisation is significantly modified by the presence of minerals.Also clarification is affected. Apparently the old Burton brewers didn't fine their beers as because of the mineral content it wasn't necessary.
     
  3. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,238) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    The question is how to proceed with water additions if you know something about the water chemistry but nothing about the extract's ion content? My water is pretty low ion content. Ca=14 ppm, Mg = 3 ppm, SO4=1 ppm, Cl=4 ppm. The info on alkalinity seems irrelevant because I won't be doing a mash.

    If I assume the extract adds no Ca and SO4, then I guess the calculations are simple enough. Add gypsum and calcium chlroide to the boil to raise Ca and SO4 to desired levels. But is it a good assumption?
     
  4. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,238) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Right. These are basically the points of departure for my question. Although I was never sure if hop utilization was the right term for the impact of minerals. I guess I think of minerals as enhancing perception of bitterness and utilization as an extraction efficiency; that's not quite the same thing, but my understanding may be faulty. Either way, I don't believe that detail is not paramount to my question.
     
  5. jklinck

    jklinck Zealot (509) Jul 23, 2007 Washington

    The extract itself has all the ions you need. You can extract brew with distilled water if you want. Your extract came from a normal brewery sized mash that already had ions either in the brewing water or had them added via salts. If you want to add some salts to accentuate profiles in your beer I suggest 1/2 tsp of CaCl in malty beers or a 1/2tsp of CaSO4 (gypsum) in hoppy beers (for a 5 gallon batch).
     
  6. hopkrid

    hopkrid Pundit (811) Mar 11, 2011 Florida

    I have not extract brewed for a while but you want to use the best tasting cleanest water possible. The minerals are already in the extract as someone stated above. I would use RO water if I were to do a extract brew again.
     
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Grand Pooh-Bah (3,055) Jul 12, 2009 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah

    Unless you can get details about the mash water content from the extract manufacturer, you'll be working in the dark. My advice would be to taste a simple recipe critically, and decide what would be a useful addition (if any) flavorwise, either Gypsum (for crisper bitterness) or CaCL (for more rounded maltiness). Keep additions minimal for soft water beers (like a czeck pils for example). As long as you stick with the same base extracts (and base water), you should be able to dial in and then predict the best mineral additions for any style.
     
  8. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,623) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah

    Martin Brungard reported that Briess extracts are high in sodium, as they use the softened water provided by the town of Chilton WI.
     
  9. leedorham

    leedorham Initiate (0) Apr 27, 2006 Washington

    When I was brewing extract, I switched to distilled water and saw instant improvement in the quality of my beer.

    This was using Briess & Munton's DME.
     
  10. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,238) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Yeah, I know it has everything I need. I was just wondering what I might try to enhance hoppiness. I'll probably go with some gypsum because it is a bitter and your half tsp seems like a reasonable starting point.

    I brew extract batches only a couple times a year (less time available for brewing during the academic calendar) will probably not be repeating the recipe to optimize by taste.
     
  11. jklinck

    jklinck Zealot (509) Jul 23, 2007 Washington

    I brew all-grain and use RO water (almost all minerals are stripped out) and only use 1 tsp of either CaCl or gypsum in a whole 5 gallon batch. Being that the extract already has mostly what you need that it why I recommended just a 1/2 tsp.
     
  12. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    BIAB, more control, very easy process, not a lot of addtionl supplies needed.
     
  13. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,238) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I have all-grain equipment and about 100 all-grain batches under my belt. But it's extract brewing that I lack the experience with, specifically with regard to knowing the ion content of the extract so I can better adjust the chemistry for flavor enhancement. I'm glad you found BIAB and wish you continued success with it, but simplifying the mash approach doesn't exactly help me with an extract batch.
     
  14. jmich24

    jmich24 Initiate (0) Jan 28, 2010 Michigan

    Save the extract for sours! Good luck finding specifics.(no sarcasam)
     
  15. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,238) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    I'm a step ahead of you. I will be doing an extract sour too. I'll use a munich extract as the base for a sour and a Maris Otter extract as the base for a bitter. In my first year of teaching (2008), I got bummed out because I could not find suitable periods of time to brew all-grain during the academic year. So, beginning the following year, I started making 1-2 batches of mead, cider, and extract beers between Sept & May to stoke the homebrewing passions.
     
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