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Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by iseethewhitewhale, Jan 26, 2013.
Well, then there must not be any. I retract my suggestion.
Rather than be juvenile, why not try to explain the similarities (you seem to find) to us -- I double-dog dare you!
Both are wheat-based, refreshing, have varying degrees of fruity/citric flavors, and lack any appreciable hoppiness. While Berliners are obviously a lot more tart, it's not a characteristic that's absent from your standard issue Weissbier.
a fresh hefeweizen will still have a nice complement of noble hops.
From BJCP: Hop flavor is very low to none
I'd try Belgian saisons and triples, if you haven't already
Pretty good, while far from complete. You left out that Berliner Weiß is sour, lactic, light-bodied with a thin mouthfeel while Bavarian Weizen is spicy, sweet from maltiness, carrying flavors of vanilla and banana along with spicy phenols from the distinct yeast strain and has a medium body and a medium to full body.
Any tartness that might be found in a Bavarian Weizen is far overpowered by the sour tartness of a Berliner Weiß.
I stand by my original statement, the 2 are far different beers -- even in any varying degree of fruit character or hop presence (and I always get a good hop balance in the nose of the Weizens I enjoy) -- let alone ingredients -- after all, Widmer uses wheat too and that produces another far different beer.
And since you brought up the BJCP, please note the 2 distinct categories these 2 beers fall under -- straight Lambic is far closer to Berliner than Bavarian Weizen is.
BJCP is for homebrewing competitions. it is a guide, not an infallible decree for actually existing beer styles. a very fresh hefeweizen will usually have lots of hop flavor and aroma.
Really? Pretty sure that's how GABF is judged. And after crucifying me on the stylistic cross now you're discrediting the most widely accepted style guidelines?
And now you're just making stuff up. I could just as easily say a very fresh Berliner won't be all that sour and tart since the bacteria hasn't done all it's work.
GABF is run by the BA, which grew out of papazian's homebrewer assoc. it does great work in promoting craft beer, but the style categories are totally based on american interpretations or sometimes even outright misreadings of the original beer styles and histories in their european homelands. i used to think the BJCP guidelines were gospel as well. but then very knowledgeable people from europe itself started pointing out to me the many flaws and misconceptions that are perpetrated in these supposed categorizations of their native beers.
when i had a fresh pour of schneider edelweisse out of a huge wooden cask, i was surprised at how much noble hop character was present.
American wheat tastes of paper.
Lagunitas called, little sumpin sumpin heard you were talking trash and boy is she pissed.
Aha. I think I know what you mean by the paper flavour. I recently tried the Uerige Weizen, albeit a German Hefeweizen, and it tasted overwhelmingly of cardboard.
Hmm, maybe I've tried this style in Korea, where I live. One of its only brewpubs makes a clean wheat beer like nothing I've had from Germany. It's very nice. However, I loves me a nice German banana bomb every once in a while.
Aventinus is the best wheat beer I've ever had. If you can, get your hands on their 2005 vintage.
Apparently Germans like to mix their weissbier with banana nectar, lemonade and coca cola. or so ive read. I could definitely see the banana nectar bit being interesting.
Came here to suggest this one. Probably the best dunkelweizen I've ever tried.
Not sure what else makes it out to Australia, I highly doubt most of the american suggestions make it to you. I know SN just started getting there last year but kellerweiss isnt one of those you're getting.
Like others have said, if you like hefeweizens you will probably like the belgian wit style; very similar. Hoegaarden is my favorite wit, probably favorite session beer full stop. For the price, its very tough to beat. St. Bernardus is another you probably get, but its MUCH more expensive, and arguably not much better. The great thing about hefe and wit beers is that even the cheaper ones will taste amazing.
Shakin' in my boots.
To be fair, Oberon is also considered an American Pale Wheat Ale, but tastes nothing like Widmer or 312 -- and I actually enjoy it each year. It's sort of an APWA that leans to the Wit influence.
I've seen Helles mixed with Cola (called a Diesel) or lemonade (Radler) and Berliner Weiß mixed with woodruff or raspberry juice (and my friends and I tried orange juice with the Berliner for a beer mimosa), but I've never seen Bavarian Weizen mixed with anything -- in Germany, anyway.
I came to this thread thinking "Hell no, nothing compares to Berliners!", then I was all like...
Indeed. I was going to say the same thing. SN is darn good but methinks Mr. Carey has them beat. But; for the purposes of this discussion....the OP is in Australia and would never come close to NG...save for a trade. It sounds more like he is looking to find something he can get steadily.
Franziskaner etc is like suggesting Victoria Bitter to someone asking about Oz mikros...
Face it, if you want to drink a decent Weizen you'll have to come to Bayern.
That's it -- I'm sending you some SN Kellerweiss and New Glarus Dancing man.
(But, of course, you'll have to get someone else to drink it to compare...)
I was listening to an inreview with Lagunita's head brewer this morning. He said they couldn't think of a better way to accentuate the delicate flavors of wheat than covering them up with their most aggressive dry hopping schedule. Lol.
The only American pale wheats I’ve ever liked were the old Sierra Nevada Wheat and Odell Easy Street. Back when NB Sunshine was unfiltered it had a certain charm, too…but that has been a while. None of them are particularly amazing, but they at least have/had some character.
I’ve never seen anyone in Bavaria tinker with any kind of syrups in their weissbier…at least beyond the Weissesbrauhaus staff telling people not to order their “Berliner” since it’s just their pale weiss with raspberry syrup.
However Russ’n mixes likely outsell dunkel in Munich these days. I don’t mind them, and my wife genuinely loves ‘em. The really fruit-heavy ones like the Andechser do pair pretty well with Sprite in spite of what you might expect.
Good call, although naming potential trade candidates can be helpful sometimes too.
For me it's a tie between NG and SN's hefeweizens. Both the best US versions I've tried to date.
If anyone is looking for a top notch American weissbier, Dry Dock is canning theirs now and I'd expect you'll see them start to really kick up their distribution in the next year or two. It's a GABF Gold and 2-time GABF silver award winner. I'd say it has changed a tiny bit since those awards, but it's still as good as any I've had in the US and better than many Bavarian ones.
They don’t have a wide distribution but Troegs makes a very good Hefeweizen in their Dreamweaver Wheat; that beer won the gold medal in the 2012 GABF for Category: 66 South German-Style Hefeweizen.
Other very tasty Hefeweizen beers from SEPA:
· Sly Fox Royal Weisse (year round)
· Stoudt’s Heifer-in-Wheat (summer seasonal)
· Victory Sunrise Wheat
· Victory Mad King Weisse
FWIW, the style guidelines for the European Beer Star Awards style guidelines for a Hefeweizen states: “hop flavour and aroma are not noticeable”
34) South German‐Style Hefeweizen Hell
Colour: very pale to pale amber
Aroma and flavour: fruity and phenolic
The phenolic characteristics are often described as clove‐ or nutmeg‐like and may also be smoky or even vanilla‐like
The wheat malt percentage is at least 50%
Hopping rates are quite low, hop flavour and aroma are not noticeable
Hefeweizen is high attenuated and shows a high carbon dioxide content
Noticeable taste of yeast
Yeast turbidity possible
Original gravity: 11.0 – 14.0 °Plato
Apparent extract: 2.0 – 4.0 °Plato
Alcohol: 3.7 – 4.7 % by weight, 4.6 – 5.9 % by volume
Bitterness: 10 – 20 IBU
Colour: < 15 EBC
First off -- in no way do I disagree with you. I can pick out (and enjoy) the hop characters in a good Weizen myself, but I think that when most BA members think of "hop character," I believe they can only think of in-your-face IPAs that knock you over the head. Too bad, too -- because they're missing out on more character than they think.
The beer tai4ji2x mentioned, Edelweisse is now called Mein Grunes. While still classified as a Bavarian weissbier, it's intentionally an extremely hoppy one, is 6.2% ABV, and I *think* it's even using American hops. It's a bit atypical compared with the other weissbiers from the same area. That said, it's good stuff, too!
Seen Bananen-weizen, Kirsch-weizen, and Cola-weizen. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weizenbier#Mischgetr.C3.A4nke
I completely agree with you 100%. Great post!
Dunkelweizen is what you should try next. Then Weizenbocks or Eisbocks. Belgian Witbiers may float your boat as well. If you are adventurous Berlinerweisse, Gose, Geuze.
American Wheat beers. Boulevard unfiltered, etc. can be perfectly enjoyable if not expecting German complexity. Low ester and phenol flavors if any.
Some folks might enjoy this video which compares and contrasts Weihenstephan vs. Edel-Weisse Mein Grunes.
An 'interesting' pour technique but the idea of having the beer 'touch' the outside of the bottles is a bit of-putting to me.
The reviewer uses the descriptor of "powdered ginger" to descrbe the Mein Grunes beer. I wonder if this is a yeast produced flavor/aroma?
Wikipedia is one thing -- have you ever actually seen one of these? And would you ever actually try one?
Never tried one. But seen plenty -- mostly at this place in Bamberg called Stilbruch.
I have seen a banana weizen, actually. My wife ordered it from the local University Cafe one day. It appeared to be a mashed banana poured directly into a wheat beer. The "nectar" sinks straight to the bottom, and as far as my wife could tell, it imparted absolutely no flavor to the beer until you got to the bottom, at which point in turned into beer-flavored banana "nectar". She (a fan of beer)(and bananas) said it was gross, and I took her word for it. Not recommended on any level.
I've walked past that beer in the store a number of times thinking it was just another wheat beer (not a fan), and the information on their website wouldn't suggest it being brewed with Cascade hops either (but which is mentioned on the BA page for the beer). I might just have to pick one up and try it.
Seen them all and had a Cola Weizen once. Once.