Westvleteren 12 vs Rochefort 10 and Bernardus 12

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by bochman, Mar 15, 2013.

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  1. wesbray

    wesbray Disciple (349) Feb 29, 2012 Alberta (Canada)
    Beer Trader

  2. digita7693

    digita7693 Disciple (394) Jan 19, 2010 Germany
    Beer Trader

    I definitely agree that having Westvleteren at the cafe is magical, however! It is not on draft, bottles only, at least every time I have been there.

    Re: which is better, I've done te blind taste test several times w different people and Westvleteren has always come out on top. They are all great, but for me Westvleteren with 2yrs on it blows away the same aged rochefort and st. Bernardus, fresh it is a lot closer, but I find st bernardus a bit sweeter/gingerbready, and rochefort is a lot spicier.
    La trappe I find to be a lot thinner and way behind, but the ba la trappe is quite nice.
    Mnmaverick and cavedave like this.
  3. Beerdudenumberone

    Beerdudenumberone Aspirant (293) Dec 9, 2012 Indiana
    Beer Trader

    Just did this last Friday. The order is just like you have in the title westvleteren 12, rochefort 10 and last but still awesome abt 12
  4. LiquidCourage

    LiquidCourage Initiate (156) Nov 1, 2012 Rhode Island
    Beer Trader

    I did this exact taste test three week ago. I had Rochefort 10 as my winner. The other two guys had Westvletern 12.
  5. MrRockstar

    MrRockstar Initiate (157) Sep 9, 2006 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    If you like the regular La Trappe, you need to find the oak barrel aged versions, Batch 8 is especially excellent.

    BATCH 8 (blended in October 2011):
    Whiskey - 70%
    New Fr. Oak Medium Toast - 30%
  6. YogiBeer

    YogiBeer Initiate (0) May 10, 2012 Illinois

    Pannepot (and pannepeut) are both much better than any of the others, IMHO.
    sprucetip and Brabander like this.
  7. pixieskid

    pixieskid Initiate (0) Jun 4, 2009 Germany

    No disrespect, but La Trappe Quad is an overly-cloying p.o.s. quad and as such I dont agree with your verdict...
    digita7693 likes this.
  8. pixieskid

    pixieskid Initiate (0) Jun 4, 2009 Germany

    Oddly enough, I am enjoying a Pannepeut 2010 as I type this...

    but imo, abt.12 and westy 12 are one in the same, as they should be given the history.

    Rochefort 10 is a delicious beer that more than sets the standard for the style.

    Other-wise, I dont know what else to suggest in regards to said style...
  9. GennyCreamAle

    GennyCreamAle Initiate (0) Feb 25, 2009 New York

    Which one, Pannepot, Reserva, or Grand Reserva? I have only had Grand Reserva and it is not as good as Rochefort 10.
  10. CaptainPiret

    CaptainPiret Initiate (157) Oct 5, 2009 Luxembourg
    Beer Trader

    When I lived in Belgium a friend and I did a blind tasting of Westy 12, Rochefort 12, Abt 12 and Saint Amatus (since that seemed to be De Struise's version of a quad).

    We were able to identify each pretty quickly. And both of us agreed Saint Amatus and Westy 12, although quite different from each other, were our two favorites, followed by Rochefort 12 and Abt 12.

    Having said all that, Pannepot — in whatever incarnation — is my favorite out of all of those.
  11. TongoRad

    TongoRad Poo-Bah (2,061) Jun 3, 2004 New Jersey
    Supporter Beer Trader

    Ditto this. These beers really do change quite a bit with age. Westvleteren is becomes sublime with a few years on it, though quite enjoyable fresh. The Het Anker Van de Keiser Blauw absolutely requires a few years; not so good fresh. But I agree with the poster above that Rochefort is best when it's fresh. And so on... A level playing field really is necessary before any declarations are to be made.
  12. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) Aug 19, 2008 California

    Ever heard of bottle variation?

    This thread happens ever week, and it's never interesting.
  13. digita7693

    digita7693 Disciple (394) Jan 19, 2010 Germany
    Beer Trader

    Yet you were intrigued enough to open the thread and somehow compelled to reply to it. Was it your insatiable desire to point out redundant threads or an excessive need to post something whilst deriding others about their opinions and what constitutes a quality thread?
    drtth, cavedave and pixieskid like this.
  14. BenZ

    BenZ Initiate (0) Nov 11, 2004 Virginia

    Abt 12 maybe uses the old westy strain, but now westy gets its yeast from one of the other brewers.
  15. coachdicarlo

    coachdicarlo Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2012 Missouri

    There is a Rochefort 12??
    RobertColianni and Rohkey like this.
  16. Premo88

    Premo88 Meyvn (1,445) Jun 6, 2010 Texas

    I watched this one. Mostly I kept thinking: I want three goblets full of quads in front of me like that one day ... (and quads aren't even a personal favorite -- but I'd still drink all that beer!).
  17. Nectar

    Nectar Initiate (0) Jan 17, 2013 New Jersey

    Recieving a box with a few Westy 12 tomorrow. Ill try to do a blind review. I love rochefort 10 so we'll see. I know when trading I paid for the experience of trying westy.
  18. theCoder

    theCoder Disciple (393) Oct 24, 2011 Minnesota
    Subscriber Beer Trader

    We did this a few weeks ago as a pre-tasting to my winter tasting I host. I invited 4 others and another friend who also got a 6 pack of Westy. We had 2 Westy's, 2 Rochefort 10's and an ABT 12. All as fresh as we could get them. This was the results
    3 picked (including me) Westy > ABT 12 > Rochefort 10
    3 picked Westy > Rochefort 10 > ABT 12.

    Then I decided to bust out a bottle of cellered Rochefort from my cellar. My friends said if that was the Rochefort we had it would have changed entirely. One would have picked Rochefort over Westy over ABT. The others still thought Westy as best and if aged then Rochefort and last ABT (I was in this boat as well I like my Rochefort cellered).

    I'd be interested to throw in Chimay Blue.
  19. MooseBoose

    MooseBoose Zealot (533) Jun 6, 2007 Wisconsin

    Rochefort 10 blew my mind. I've had it a few times since the first, and had Abt 12 twice. I think Rochefort 10 is superior.

    I have also had the Prior 8 three times, and I have to say I think the Prior 8 is as good as the Abt 12. Maybe not as complex but still awesome.

    Almost bought a bottle of Rochefort 8 tonight but didn't pull the trigger and this thread is really making me wish I would have......
  20. eatabagofbooger

    eatabagofbooger Initiate (60) Mar 27, 2009 Oregon
    Beer Trader

    I've recently gone through the full Rochefort and St. Bernardus lineup. I was dissapointed with the Pater 6, but the Prior 8 is, indeed, freaking awesome (maybe not quite as good as the Abt 12, but dang close!). I also would say that I like the Rochefort 8 at least as much as the 10, maybe even more. Whichever you like better, I'd say the Rochefort 8 and Prior 8 are both phenomenal beers that are unfairly overshadowed by their larger cousins.
  21. robwater

    robwater Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2012 Colorado

    I did a blind tasting with Westy 12, Orval, and Achel... said nobody.
  22. Hopsiam14

    Hopsiam14 Devotee (456) Jan 23, 2013 Minnesota
    Beer Trader

    I too like Rochefort. Westy is nice, I just prefer the Rochefort...
    RobertColianni likes this.
  23. pixieskid

    pixieskid Initiate (0) Jun 4, 2009 Germany

    Every week, with someone mentioning La Trappe being overly cloying...

    I doubt there's much bottle variation going on with that beer at least there shouldn't be with a brewery of that size/production.

    I know the Oak Aged ones are different for each batch, but not the regulars.
  24. pixieskid

    pixieskid Initiate (0) Jun 4, 2009 Germany

    You've got it backwards; the OG is St. Bernardus, they used to brew the beer (Westy 12) for St. Sixtus until the early/mid 90's. From there, I'm pretty sure they are both using the same recipe, dunno about the yeast strain.
  25. MDDMD

    MDDMD Poo-Bah (1,774) Jun 4, 2011 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    I'm planning the same tasting next week. Really interest.ed in how this comes out.
  26. Kadonny

    Kadonny Meyvn (1,237) Sep 5, 2007 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    God I love ABT 12 and it just doesn't seem to get the respect.
    darky, mh007 and jimmy666 like this.
  27. themind

    themind Defender (696) Mar 14, 2011 New Jersey

    Unless you had Abt 12 on tap, then it's second :slight_smile:
  28. chcfan

    chcfan Devotee (466) Oct 29, 2008 California

    Westvleteren uses a Westmalle yeast strain that can be purchased at home brew stores. I've not had a clone, but my understanding is that the monks do some magic that make the 8 and 12 pretty much impossible to replicate even with the right (according to whom?) amount of, malt, hops, sugars and the exact same yeast. Granted, the outcome is supposed to be very good, just different from the originals. Theoretically, they could be doing some cultures or whatever and really have their own version of the yeast at this point.

    To the OP, a couple of us did the three last year. Which is "best" is obviously a matter of opinion, but we were able to tell which was which. Rochefort has a very distinct yeast flavor and Westy 12 has the most "raisiny" flavors and St. B doesn't really have a signature, but it's delicious and extremely well balanced.
  29. BoneyardBrewer

    BoneyardBrewer Initiate (105) Apr 24, 2005 Michigan

    1 St Bernardus
    2 Westy
    3 Rochefort
  30. sefus12

    sefus12 Aspirant (221) Sep 7, 2006 Kentucky

    Here's my ranking:

    1) Abt 12
    1a) Westy 12
    3) Rochefort 10

    I absolutely love Abt 12 and a bottle that was aged about 3 years was possibly the best beer I've ever had. All are great beers though and you can't go wrong with any of them.
  31. HOP_KING

    HOP_KING Initiate (170) Jan 30, 2013 Illinois

    La Trappe Quad IMO is also very similar to Westy XII
  32. RockAZ

    RockAZ Disciple (371) Jan 6, 2009 Arizona
    Beer Trader

    I did this a few months ago with these three plus Orval and Pannepot Reserva and the local brewery Dragoon's Quad (with plums?) and used two glasses each. The Westy 12 really stands out from the rest, just a bit more complicated and sweeter. Alone, I like all of them especially the Pannepot Reserva, but in the blind test it was #2 IMHO to the Westy 12. Third to me was the Abt 12, 4th Rocky 10, Dragoons and then Orval. Not that Orval is a last place beer, I realized I have overlooked that beer for too long and will try to keep some of it around from now on. The Abt 12 was the hardest one to locate after the big Westy 12 sale and held up the test for almost a month.

    As others have said above - all of them are good and you can't really go wrong with any of them.
  33. digita7693

    digita7693 Disciple (394) Jan 19, 2010 Germany
    Beer Trader

    coachdicarlo said:
    If you have Westy 12 on draft at the monastery, you will absolutely determine that it is the best beer in the world and there could not possibly be a better beer in existence.​

    Kind of a moot point, since Westvleteren 12 is not on tap:slight_smile:
  34. coachdicarlo

    coachdicarlo Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2012 Missouri

    Didn't even realize that. I had it brought to me outside in a glass.
  35. themind

    themind Defender (696) Mar 14, 2011 New Jersey

    I have no idea, never been to Belgium. Would love to go and slam some Westy 12 and every other brew over there lol!
  36. themind

    themind Defender (696) Mar 14, 2011 New Jersey

    I just tried that for the first time, what an excellent brew!
    Rohkey likes this.
  37. Smitty1988

    Smitty1988 Initiate (0) Oct 16, 2012 Arizona
    Beer Trader

    I bought into the hype for awhile until I bought my 85.00 6er of westy 12.... The same experiment showed me that I paid way too much and if I want a good trappist Ale, I will go with Rochefort 10 Everytime
    RobertColianni likes this.
  38. HokiesandBeer

    HokiesandBeer Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2013 Pennsylvania
    Beer Trader

    For those who have has these beers multiple times is it really a "blind" taste test when you pretty much know what you're drinking after the first sip?
  39. RockAZ

    RockAZ Disciple (371) Jan 6, 2009 Arizona
    Beer Trader

    Excellent point, and one we discussed while tasting - we had no doubts which was which after the taste but it was fun trying to guess from the color and the smell first. The Westy and the Rochefort 10 were guessed 100%, but there was disagreement on the others until the tasting.
    HokiesandBeer likes this.
  40. Cvescalante

    Cvescalante Initiate (0) Dec 24, 2012 Texas
    Beer Trader

    I did this one earlier in the year, and I chose Rochefort, and I couldn't really decide on what were 2nd and 3rd. My buddy set this one up and I didn't know which beers we were even trying. I just knew westy was involved.
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